Could Huawei & honor users start a lawsuit against the US govt or Donald Trump?

[Nena Trinity]

Should and could the people who are affected by the Huawei ban started by the US govt and Donald Trump sue them? If yes can they sue one of them or both? Would it be worth it for them to pursuit this?

[Jurrunio]

if the government use "potential safety risk" as the reasoning it's very hard to sue them.

[WereCatf]

2 minutes ago, Nena360 said:

Should and could the people who are affected by the Huawei ban started by the US govt and Donald Trump sue them? If yes can they sue one of them or both? Would it be worth it for them to pursuit this?

You can sue someone for pretty literally anything you like in the U.S., so yes, it would be entirely possible. That said, I do not believe any individuals or even groups of individuals had any chance of winning such a case. On the other hand, all the big companies that were affected by this could sue on the grounds of losses and business-opportunities and that, in my entirely uneducated layman-view, just might end up in court. I still don't think they'd win, but I ain't a lawyer, so I could be wrong.

[Arika]

Existing devices still work. The ban affects the creation of new devices.

[SupaKomputa]

If you rewind this scenario in the 80's, everyone would just turn their heads away.

[Nena Trinity]

40 minutes ago, PacketMan said:

Mmm I don't think so, because Android, Google services, ARM, etc are US technology, that means that it was developed in the US territory and there are laws that protect US technologies for certain use.

Is it stupid? Yeah, in this case yes.

Can Google and the rest of the companies move to other countries? Yeah, will it be any different? The technology will still be "US tech" so only think you can think of is Google not paying any fine, and it's hard to believe that US will ban the use of Google's services in the US if Google decides to give support to Huawei...

So... It's really hard to believe that Google will fight for our rights, meh.

Well if someone bought a P30 they lost two Android upgrades, its also murky if security updates will still come despite Huawei assuring it to the consumers. The first one alone is enough since the device clearly have lost value, the second is a whole other beast of a reason to do it since people put their banking app on these devices if one is to get hacked they could easily put the blame on Google who will probably blame the govt...

[Nena Trinity]

10 minutes ago, PacketMan said:

AFAIK Huawei will keep giving us security patches, I don't know if it's from Google or from themselves

But yeah, the lost value is considerable, you can buy right now a Mate 20 Pro for about 500 euros, which is freaking amazing and I'm sure this will sort out in matter of weeks/months, at worst when Trump is out we can live better

I'd say it's time for some people to get top tier Huawei phones for really cheap, but that's just a bet

That is the thing that worries me, the security updates if not approved by Google may brick Google Services, if Google approves them then they may violate the thingy and I am not sure they can... V-V (optionally they may have to send a request to the departmebt, that will mean the updates will be delayed if approved at all...)

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

if the government use "potential safety risk" as the reasoning it's very hard to sue them.

They will, even though there's obviously no national security reasoning behind this. It's all about the money. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nena360 said:

Should and could the people who are affected by the Huawei ban started by the US govt and Donald Trump sue them? If yes can they sue one of them or both? Would it be worth it for them to pursuit this?

Could you sue them?Yeh you could.Should you?hell no they are going to have the top of the line lawyer and if the gov wanted to they could just "Make people vanish" if they wanted to,so no dont try unless your really content on doing so

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, nnfancois said:

Could you sue them?Yeh you could.Should you?hell no they are going to have the top of the line lawyer and if the gov wanted to they could just "Make people vanish" if they wanted to,so no dont try unless your really content on doing so

Alone it's to hard I agree but if millions or more group up to make it happen the govt cannot possibly make that nanny vanish, tough the lawyers is the only wall to climb, dig under or insert other Donald trump Wall fail meme here.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Nena360 said:

millions or more group up

At that point it could work but as the us is under deibt,its not a good idea as if 3 mill people did win and got a payout of 500,000 dolllars that would cost the us about 500,000,000,000 dollars making everything so crappy that its just better to go live in canada or something

Edit:But thats just my opinion

[Bouzoo]

Just now, PacketMan said:

As well as selling weapons to Saudi Arabia isn't a National Emergency, nor build a wall. But it doesn't even matter now and it's a joke, and it seems like no one will say anything to him. This guy is ridiculous, hope it all ends well and soon...

Oh the SA is whole new level of stupid. It's ridiculous. Unless something happens before he steps down, the moment he steps I reckon he will be indicted with a list fatter than the Bible. 

[Bouzoo]

Just now, nnfancois said:

At that point it could work but as the us is under deibt,its not a good idea as if 3 mill people did win and got a payout of 500,000 dolllars that would cost the us about 500,000,000,000 dollars making everything so crappy that its just better to go live in canada or something

To be fair, while I thought about the same thing, there is no legal basis to sue them. I mean, for what exactly?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bouzoo said:

To be fair, while I thought about the same thing, there is no legal basis to sue them. I mean, for what exactly?

im not to sure about that ,i just saw this thread and decided to commet on it 

[Nena Trinity]

21 minutes ago, nnfancois said:

At that point it could work but as the us is under deibt,its not a good idea as if 3 mill people did win and got a payout of 500,000 dolllars that would cost the us about 500,000,000,000 dollars making everything so crappy that its just better to go live in canada or something

Edit:But thats just my opinion

True but if more sue for lost value, won't they also have to pay more? Theoretically the more people who sue the more money the US govt have to cash out, at that point maybe they would just tell Google to do business? Just to avoid economic loss... 

[star_pilot475]

2 hours ago, Nena360 said:

True but if more sue for lost value, won't they also have to pay more? Theoretically the more people who sue the more money the US govt have to cash out, at that point maybe they would just tell Google to do business? Just to avoid economic loss... 

As I’m reading through this thread I’m starting to wonder if you have a Huawei @Nena360

[Guest]

2 hours ago, star_pilot475 said:

As I’m reading through this thread I’m starting to wonder if you have a Huawei @Nena360

they do

[Nena Trinity]

5 hours ago, star_pilot475 said:

As I’m reading through this thread I’m starting to wonder if you have a Huawei @Nena360

honor, tough mine will never get Oreo even without the US meddling so I would not join in on this.

[Dieork]

The underlining ban on Huawei is not about the consumer gear, its about preventing the likes of L3 and Harris from using gear infrastructure gear from Huawei like the ZTE ban a few years. The main fear is that as someone like an L3 or Quest who is building out a US government network CONUS or OCONUS might put in place lower cost networking gear that could act as a beach head for another nation state. (Lenovo Ban). There has never been hard evidence supporting that Hauwei is complacent in nation state spying (Huawie VoIP phones had "concerns" years back, but no proof that Hauwei was complacent). These are the reasoning behind the ban, now from a "national security" stand point consumer gear could have been left out, but this very well be a trade issue just like the ZTE ban a few years ago that was "resolved" so this is not the 1st time nor the last time such a move will happen. And if history shows us anything it tends to work out in the end.

 

Full Disclosure: All my mobile/network gear is Huawei, PD Mate10 Pro, PD Huawei Watch, MediaPad M5 Pro, 4G base stations, Huawei FTTH Solution, And portal 4G Hotspots

[straight_stewie]

19 minutes ago, Dieork said:

There has never been hard evidence supporting that Hauwei is complacent in nation state spying

There is actually a metric wack ton of evidence supporting that.

Even just the fact that the CEOs parents were spies and that Ren Zhengfei actually worked for the Chinese version of the NSA before starting Huawei is enough evidence to suggest that we probably don't want their products to be the backbone of our telecom systems.

[Arika]

48 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

is enough evidence to suggest that we probably don't want their products to be the backbone of our telecom systems.

so why ban the entirety of their consumer manufacturing as well? the infrastructure stuff i kind almost understand but not their consumer products

[Dieork]

2 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

There is actually a metric wack ton of evidence supporting that.

Even just the fact that the CEOs parents were spies and that Ren Zhengfei actually worked for the Chinese version of the NSA before starting Huawei is enough evidence to suggest that we probably don't want their products to be the backbone of our telecom systems.

I agree there is lot of relationship evidence, but that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact, which allows for more than one explanation. And if you use ACH relationship evidence leaves to many hypotheses open. There simply is not enough diagnostic evidence, either from direct or forensic to say point blank that Hauwei is complacent/active in nation state spying. 

 

Many American companies also have strong ties to the NSA /CIA the MDDS & NSF started companies like Qualcomm and Symantec, and now there is In-Q-Tel (IQT) the "not-for-profit" venture capital group that the NSA and others 3 letter groups use to fund startups to develop core technology for the U.S. intelligence community. Such as Atlas Wearables (fitness tracker) sold in sporting goods stores and on Amazon. MindMeld is another that owes its creation to the NSA/CIA, MindMeld is the mind behind the tech that allows more than 1,200 companies to have voice recognition technology two of the biggest names are Google and Samsung. Talk to Alexa lately . 

 

The point I make is that should not let any companies tech be allowed untested and unvetted to be in the backbone of your system. Many concerns could be addressed with a strong testing and vetting process.

[Dieork]

21 minutes ago, Arika S said:

so why ban the entirety of their consumer manufacturing as well? the infrastructure stuff i kind almost understand but not their consumer products

From a "national security" standpoint consumer gear could have been left out, but this also being used as a "weapon" in the trade disagreements. I can not speak to as the long game here, but if you look at Australia who where the 1st ones to place a ban on Huawei infrastructure gear, (last August) it took a while for other nations to follow suite but now that they are it puts more and more pressure on China from a trade side, this pressure could be used to push China into a more equitable trade agreement with different parties not just in the US or Australia but globally. 

 

Trade by nations is very messed up, The US is looking to impose countervailing tariffs not just on China, but on any trade partner that "cheats" on its trade deals using currency manipulation and illegal export subsidies (this the EU). As such bans add pressures to force the hand of the other players to agree to changes or in this case to follow the rules. The US has the 2nd lowest tariff rates in the world at 1.6% Canada is the lowest at 0.8% but the US ends up paying much higher rates at the end of the day when dealing with partners as they knew they could cheat the system and for years the US looked the other way. The US is no longer looking the way and is starting to play hardball. Banning China access to US Tech affects China on a globalized scale and one that they might not be able to weather.

[Nena Trinity]

7 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

There is actually a metric wack ton of evidence supporting that.

Even just the fact that the CEOs parents were spies and that Ren Zhengfei actually worked for the Chinese version of the NSA before starting Huawei is enough evidence to suggest that we probably don't want their products to be the backbone of our telecom systems.

Its probably just about the trade war... V-V

[Ravenbear]

You cannot sue Federal or State governments unless they allow you or you can convince a Federal judge.  And I see the reasoning and agree with it. If you do not think the Chinese government de-facto controls the company's there you are very naive. I love how when people do not like something the first thing they want to do is sue.  It's one of the many reasons medical care is so high. But that is another subject.  SMDH