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TheBritishVillain

What EXACTLY did Huawei do?

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If there is this abundant evidence of Huawei spying, then why US of A doesn't present it to the public? Are we suppose to just believe it because Murica are the gud guyz? Yeah, I've seen how they sperged against Kaspersky Lab few months ago. Sheeple normies believed US government accusations that Kaspersky is spying for Russia and some shit, but I'm from this part of the industry and I know what really happened. Kaspersky found hack tools on NSA contractor's system via rather standard sensor array in cloud component of their antivirus (basically all AV companies use similar thing, basically it automatically submits suspicious executables for clasification and inspection to Kaspersky Lab). So, Kaspersky did exactly what it is expected from them, find and analyze malware before it hits user systems. But as a result US government kicked Kaspersky Lab products from gov systems.

 

So, if we go by this example, Huawei could just as well be a victim of nothing but a witch hunt. I have some trust issues with Chinese, but this one just looks sketchy as hell at this point. They are literally killing a company because they have a feeling they are spying. That's just shitty way of doing things. Either show the world that Huawei is indeed spying and we'll go with it if it sounds logical, otherwise it's whole lot of BS.

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Many years ago I was involved with the number one distributor Commodore International in the US. I did things like demo 3d software and hardware at tradeshows and teach 3D to customers. 

 When Commodore International declared bankruptcy the offices and manufacturing plants in Malaysia were broken into and ransact by Chinese agents. Intellectual property was stolen. The company that I was involved with had a bid in for Commodore mainly for the Amiga line since it housed Newtek's Video Toaster(early video editing suite).  The break-in ended the bidding war and sealed Commodores fate.  

 

It also end part of my income.   

 

I learned that was the usual at the time and so I can see why some old timers like me that remember these things mistrust the Chinese Government and younger people do not.     


RIG#1 CPU: Intel i7 8086k | Motherboard: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero | RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 | GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 ti FTW3 ULTRA | PSU: Corsair CORSAIR AX860W | Case: Cooler Master HAF 922 | Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 | SSD: Samsung 970 EVO 2TB


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23 hours ago, will1432 said:

fixed that for you!

Thanks ! Its sadly 100% true


Let's agree to disagree

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On 5/24/2019 at 1:52 PM, dizmo said:

Just like everyone else in the world. What you're not getting is that of course the US is going to do all it can to protect itself, and by proxy, those it communicates/deals with on a security level (5 eyes).

Yet, when Intel dominates the server market, China makes a deal with AMD to develop in the x86 platform to stop relying on american chips, they didn't go full douchebag banning american companies, because "they are in our ecosystem and they can spy us".

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On 5/25/2019 at 7:34 PM, RejZoR said:

If there is this abundant evidence of Huawei spying, then why US of A doesn't present it to the public? Are we suppose to just believe it because Murica are the gud guyz? Yeah, I've seen how they sperged against Kaspersky Lab few months ago. Sheeple normies believed US government accusations that Kaspersky is spying for Russia and some shit, but I'm from this part of the industry and I know what really happened. Kaspersky found hack tools on NSA contractor's system via rather standard sensor array in cloud component of their antivirus (basically all AV companies use similar thing, basically it automatically submits suspicious executables for clasification and inspection to Kaspersky Lab). So, Kaspersky did exactly what it is expected from them, find and analyze malware before it hits user systems. But as a result US government kicked Kaspersky Lab products from gov systems.

 

So, if we go by this example, Huawei could just as well be a victim of nothing but a witch hunt. I have some trust issues with Chinese, but this one just looks sketchy as hell at this point. They are literally killing a company because they have a feeling they are spying. That's just shitty way of doing things. Either show the world that Huawei is indeed spying and we'll go with it if it sounds logical, otherwise it's whole lot of BS.

That Kaspersky example is quite an excellent example of what the issue is and where the problem lies for the US in predictions for the National Security debate.

 

Kaspersky is just doing what they do and something they do NOT intend to stop doing. As it is part and parcel of what they do in the Anti-Virus industry, and what their customer base expects from them as an Anti-Virus business industry leader.

 

@dizmo @Sauron @TheBritishVillain

 

Huawei is a company that sides with the country of its foundation and it will not change what it does in the capitalist market (free market) even if it were asked. Whether the general population in the US or for that matter, all the Android users of the world agrees with or cares much about who’s hands their data ends up in!

 

Huawei has built its current smartphone platform using the US technology of Google’s Android OS. Other manufacturers such as BlackBerry, Apple’s iPhone, Nokia, and Windows, to name a few have not. Some of those handset manufacturers have not survived their own ‘Hail Mary’ moment. Only time will tell if Huawei can themselves survive this sea change; I expect that they will be the most popular handset within China for the foreseeable future. At least until such a time that middle-class China, no longer perceives Huawei’s invasion of privacy as providing the needed sanctuary and security that they have-to-have.


Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves (Abraham Lincoln,1808-1865; 16th US president).

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1 hour ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

That Kaspersky example is quite an excellent example of what the issue is and where the problem lies for the US in predictions for the National Security debate.

 

Kaspersky is just doing what they do and something they do NOT intend to stop doing. As it is part and parcel of what they do in the Anti-Virus industry, and what their customer base expects from them as an Anti-Virus business industry leader.

 

@dizmo @Sauron @TheBritishVillain

 

 

 

Huawei is a company that sides with the country of its foundation and it will not change what it does in the capitalist market (free market) even if it were asked. Whether the general population in the US or for that matter, all the Android users of the world agrees with or cares much about who’s hands their data ends up in!

 

Huawei has built its current smartphone platform using the US technology of Google’s Android OS. Other manufacturers such as BlackBerry, Apple’s iPhone, Nokia, and Windows, to name a few have not. Some of those handset manufacturers have not survived their own ‘Hail Mary’ moment. Only time will tell if Huawei can themselves survive this sea change; I expect that they will be the most popular handset within China for the foreseeable future. At least until such a time that middle-class China, no longer perceives Huawei’s invasion of privacy as providing the needed sanctuary and security that they have-to-have.

 

 

Erm, no. Kaspersky literally did what all American antivirus companies are doing. And all European ones. And all Asian ones. That's the whole point of cloud systems that work as automated classifiers. If antivirus encounters unknown EXE, it's submitted to the cloud and there it analyzes it in the automated system (unless you honestly believe malware analysts still do every sample by hand). And all these systems have a "rejection" system, basically if file has no clear verdict because it has weird composition it is handed over to an actual human to look at. Or if it has so many unexpected characteristics that it is smart to hand it over to a human as well. It is possible to fine tune the systems to raise alarm when hack tool like files are found as new file, because that's a likely chance of finding new exploits and means to bypassing existing security. It's not because Kaspersky is evil and wants hack tools for themselves, it's how every single antivirus company operates these days if they want to counter malware efficiently. And that's what it happened. It was just that American security agency contractor was caught and everyone was butthurt about it. I on the other hand was thrilled because it shows me their cloud is doing perfectly as it should.

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2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Erm, no. Kaspersky literally did what all American antivirus companies are doing. And all European ones. And all Asian ones. That's the whole point of cloud systems that work as automated classifiers. If antivirus encounters unknown EXE, it's submitted to the cloud and there it analyzes it in the automated system (unless you honestly believe malware analysts still do every sample by hand). And all these systems have a "rejection" system, basically if file has no clear verdict because it has weird composition it is handed over to an actual human to look at. Or if it has so many unexpected characteristics that it is smart to hand it over to a human as well. It is possible to fine tune the systems to raise alarm when hack tool like files are found as new file, because that's a likely chance of finding new exploits and means to bypassing existing security. It's not because Kaspersky is evil and wants hack tools for themselves, it's how every single antivirus company operates these days if they want to counter malware efficiently. And that's what it happened. It was just that American security agency contractor was caught and everyone was butthurt about it. I on the other hand was thrilled because it shows me their cloud is doing perfectly as it should. 

 

You are correct, and what I was trying to imply was that they are doing precisely what the industry standard would be expected of them to do. Although I am sure that I do not have your expertise with AV software, I am aware that even Microsoft’s AV finds some *.exe files ‘strategically volatile’ and puts them into quarantine. A while ago I had my whole music library, all 22+GB, deleted by my Windows OS because it was created by ‘JRiver Media Center’…

 

Moreover, I was pitching how they have been kicked off all government networks (and contracts) because of what they do, and that Kaspersky Labs is a Moscow-based company in the free market behaving as they are allowed to perform. However, in the national security debate, they too are not beyond the similar paranoia that surrounds the Chinese government because they can also be seen as vulnerable to the Kremlin's encouragement.

 

Even the Kaspersky Labs repercussions have similarities to the Huawei flow-on, for example, losing the full use of Android is like how in 2017 the, “UK tells agencies not to use Kaspersky software: Follows US' lead.”

 

Link:

UK tells agencies not to use Kaspersky...


Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves (Abraham Lincoln,1808-1865; 16th US president).

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7 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

Huawei is a company that sides with the country of its foundation and it will not change what it does in the capitalist market (free market) even if it were asked. Whether the general population in the US or for that matter, all the Android users of the world agrees with or cares much about who’s hands their data ends up in!

So let us decide for ourselves if and to whom we want to give that data... all it takes to avoid Huawei specifically is not to buy from them (though of course avoiding privacy invasions as a whole is impossible, in large part due to US based companies). This is one of the weakest excuses possible.

7 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

Huawei has built its current smartphone platform using the US technology of Google’s Android OS. Other manufacturers such as BlackBerry, Apple’s iPhone, Nokia, and Windows, to name a few have not.

You're not really up to date with current events - Windows Phone is dead, Blackberry and Nokia use Android.

7 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

Some of those handset manufacturers have not survived their own ‘Hail Mary’ moment.

Literally none of them have except Apple, which is only successful because their fanbase is willing to grant them huge margins - their marketshare is quite small.

7 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

At least until such a time that middle-class China, no longer perceives Huawei’s invasion of privacy as providing the needed sanctuary and security that they have-to-have.

I don't think you understand how China works - if you live there you should be worried about the government spying on you, not Huawei. Regardless all of this is completely irrelevant to the conversation. Again, privacy concerns have nothing to do with the ban - those could have been addressed in a dozen of other ways that didn't extend beyond the US' boundaries or even beyond the home of someone who cares. The US government could have easily introduced stricter regulations on privacy, but they won't do that because they're greedy slobs and they have interests in LOCAL corporations doing it.


...is there a question here? 🤔

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What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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On 5/23/2019 at 9:39 PM, Monkey Dust said:

Partly because the Communist party introduced a new law stating that all Chinese companies must aid the state when requested, such as aid intelligence gathering. There is no evidence, or even suggestion, Huawei have done anything wrong. But if the Chinese security services were to make a request, Huawei wouldn't be allowed to say no. 

So? The Australian and US governments have laws exactly like this one, for example, the CISPA from the US let them ask for Internet traffic from US technologies, and the ECPA that grant to the US government access to the communications by request

US is making China the bad guys when actually the control over Internet is actually pretty similar (not talking about Internet freedom, that's another matter), so US government could actually access to Chinese citizens data who use US technologies

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On 5/27/2019 at 9:04 PM, Sauron said:

So let us decide for ourselves if and to whom we want to give that data... all it takes to avoid Huawei specifically is not to buy from them (though of course avoiding privacy invasions as a whole is impossible, in large part due to US based companies). This is one of the weakest excuses possible.

 

You seem to me to be avoiding to what extent Huawei could change what they do for their Chinese founder at the behest of the “ossified party-state with a dogmatic ideology.”

By simply knowing what users are doing with the technology they want to roll out, especially in the 5G and IoT space, hypothetically, the company could control what an individual spends their money on. Monopolisation of the free market is why big corporations get broken up, (Ma Bell comes to mind and is part of the current discussion for big data companies such as Facebook, Google, Microsoft, AT&T and Comcast)

 

Which evokes a side question as to why Google who is under scrutiny by the European Union would entertain another player (Huawei) who wishes to be a gate-crasher.

 
 
 
 
3
On 5/27/2019 at 9:04 PM, Sauron said:

You're not really up to date with current events - Windows Phone is dead, Blackberry and Nokia use Android.

Literally none of them have except Apple, which is only successful because their fanbase is willing to grant them huge margins - their marketshare is quite small.

 

So not the interpretation of a ‘Hail Mary’ moment I had in mind, but then I included it as everyone’s an individual and each to his/ her own opinion. Perhaps you might be confused about what that moment is in business if you look from another angle. For example, the Garim~Asus Nuvifone did not survive its ‘Hail Mary’ moment nor did Nokia’s Symbian phone.

 

Moreover, where you said, “You're not really up to date with current events - Windows Phone is dead” is wrong, the Windows phone was Microsoft's 'Hail Mary' moment. Microsoft understood that they had to change to become a device and service provider. A vertical integration move that can still be seen in the way the mobile device business division, and touch devices more generally, combined the two concepts into the Windows 10 ecosystem. A reorganisation from which they developed ‘Live Tiles’ that was used on the Windows phone, and Windows 8, becoming the reasoning behind the move from Windows CE kernel to NT.

 

The Windows phone did not die it was sold to Foxconn for $350 million in 2016, if anything the Nokia phone is dead, but long live the Nokia phone...lol 

 
 
 
On 5/27/2019 at 9:04 PM, Sauron said:

I don't think you understand how China works - if you live there you should be worried about the government spying on you, not Huawei. Regardless all of this is completely irrelevant to the conversation. Again, privacy concerns have nothing to do with the ban - those could have been addressed in a dozen of other ways that didn't extend beyond the US' boundaries or even beyond the home of someone who cares. The US government could have easily introduced stricter regulations on privacy, but they won't do that because they're greedy slobs and they have interests in LOCAL corporations doing it.

 

You are correct @Sauron I do NOT understand because I do not live in China, however, what I do have is an understanding of the attachment that society has to Social Bond Theory and how this effects, and also affects how societies as a whole work. Social Bond Theory dictates the norms that a nation might expect from the community at large, different cultures have differing beliefs. So, what might be predictable in one culture may not be the case in another and thus motivation for geopolitical tensions and economic resentment.

 

Therefore, the inconsolable difference between the two cultures I am trying to suggest is that Chinese social culture dictates Huawei as doing something that is valued and incorporated in the second safety level of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Whereas we in the western ideology, see that data collection is a marketable product, and Social Bond Theory expects business to put it between the third, love-and-belonging and fourth, self-esteem levels.

 

620332711_Maslowshierarchyofneeds.png.146a09654633fc157872ec9979a08f3b.png

 

 

Links
The Chinese Communist Party: The Council on Foreign Relations

Should big technology companies break up or break open?

Windows Phone 8 vs. iOS vs. Android: One giant leap for Microsoft

Social Bond Theory

Image: Maslow’s Hierarchy of Entrepreneurial Needs


Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves (Abraham Lincoln,1808-1865; 16th US president).

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@SydneySideSteveSomewheres you have some interesting insights but I still think you're missing the point. Huawei is (until proven otherwise) no worse than a number of 'murican and otherwise "western" corporations - targeting them like this is evidence of both xenophobia and feudal protectionism. Yes, China's culture is different, so what? I thought we had moved past meaningless tribalism by now. It's especially egregious to see this sort of behavior from a country where the population is almost entirely made up by the descendants of (relatively) recent immigrants from a wide variety of places, including China.

 

As for the side notes, Windows Phone is as dead as it gets - it has virtually no marketshare, MS no longer develops it (I have no idea what Foxconn is doing with it but clearly it's nothing relevant) and nobody is developing apps for it. Windows 10 might be the spiritual successor but so far I haven't seen much in the way of Windows 10 phones, nor do I believe they'd have any success. Hail Mary or not, they tried and they failed.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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On 6/2/2019 at 6:02 PM, Sauron said:

@SydneySideSteveSomewheres you have some interesting insights but I still think you're missing the point. Huawei is (until proven otherwise) no worse than a number of 'murican and otherwise "western" corporations - targeting them like this is evidence of both xenophobia and feudal protectionism. Yes, China's culture is different, so what? I thought we had moved past meaningless tribalism by now. It's especially egregious to see this sort of behavior from a country where the population is almost entirely made up by the descendants of (relatively) recent immigrants from a wide variety of places, including China.

<snip>

2

 

Okay @Sauron this discussion has changed, (but thank you for it none the less) you have started to use the standard SJW terminology such as 'xenophobia and feudal protectionism' to attack the person, not the message, and with this new attitude I am not able to tell whether the 'meaningless tribalism' you refer to is agreeing to or disagreeing with the technology exchange from Huawei to Iran in 2012. Perhaps you are out of your depth, it is fine if you are and do not understand the bigger picture. For example, when I said I did not know how things are in China, I was admitting my lack of knowledge, that is something I am happy to do.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 6:02 PM, Sauron said:

<snip>

Yes, China's culture is different, so what?

<snip>

 

There is no war pending, as much as you may believe that is my preferred outcome, no targeting of a corporation either. Chinese Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has decelerated from ten per cent in 2007 to less than six per cent in 2018 (and is projected today in 2019 at around three per cent). Although GDP is not that a great predictor as it is speculative depending on whose figures are used to determine it. The whole world’s economy is slowing, and all the larger national economies who have the most to lose for their constituents are scrambling to plug the holes in their domestic markets.

 

imageproxy.php?img=&key=17c10421afdc6db8US_and_Chinese_Real_GDP_Growth_Rates_in_2010_2017_and_Projections_through_2050(.12).png.38bc4c0ad808d763aec212a412289086.png292716477_Chinas...accountsurplusandforeignexchangemountain2011(.10).png.bf6712fad95326382354df868b863fc3.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cost of flagship smartphones has been increasing due in part to the rise of Chinese labour costs, which is the eventuality of lifting the standard of living of 800 million people (I have and will continue to purchase Chinese goods and services, so my contribution to this is there, albeit only a small part). Trump, the European Union, Britain, Australia and others see hobbling  China’s Huawei is fair in this era soft diplomacy.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 6:02 PM, Sauron said:

<snip>

I thought we had moved past meaningless tribalism by now. It's especially egregious to see this sort of behavior from a country where the population is almost entirely made up by the descendants of (relatively) recent immigrants from a wide variety of places, including China.

<snip>

1

The newest technology software and hardware alike need to be calling home, by design, to operate. So not only would it be potentially possible to roll out an over the air update to sabotage critical infrastructure (power generation, sewerage and drinking water services) and essential information sharing (including the commercial and fiduciary components). It would also be conceivable that such a deviation from the expected social norm would affect everything in the fifth-generation networked technology and not only at the individual attached appliance level either! With the increase in download speeds, the 5G technology is going to encompass the individual devices communicating and sharing information from machine to machine. It is this kind of espionage capability that would disrupt national civilian lives beyond that of a conventional war of bullets and bombs. These are the types of new risk cyber-attacks that are at the heart of conversations about artificial intelligence and  the morality of the hack back.

 

The issues with the source code I discussed before of the E160G dongle mobile router were not fixed. All they did was enable the user to input a default home page in the device dashboard, much like the one in your browser. Shortly, after that, Huawei depreciated the device, and they have never actually patched the problem. In stark comparison with Windows XP which has recently received a Spectre, Meltdown and CVE-2019-0708, security patch support although the OS launched in 2001 and reached its end of life in 2014!

 

An issue with the source code, not the country or peoples.

 

To the OP,  @TheBritishVillain question of...What EXACTLY did Huawei do?

Huawei has that kind of capability now, and not forgetting that this discussion includes the Meng Wanzhou problem of sharing US technology that they did not own, which pre-dates this new-found ‘muricin’ awakening. What the US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, said seems to make sense, and it would be ‘especially egregious’ of governments to “hand over the keys to your entire society to an actor that has … demonstrated malign conduct.”

 

Links
Huawei sharing US tech with Iran

SOFT DIPLOMACY

MORALITY OF THE HACK-BACK

The quoted US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland.

Images
China’s...account surplus and foreign exchange mountain 2011

US_and_Chinese_Real_GDP_Growth_Rates_in_2010_2017_and_Projections_through_2050
Morrison, China’s Economic Rise: History, Trends, Challenges, and Implications for the United States, 2018.


Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves (Abraham Lincoln,1808-1865; 16th US president).

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Reminder: Xiaomi was already caught planting backdoors. There's no gurantee that Huawei won't.

 

There's definently a reason for the "paranoia". China hasn't been the most trustworthy country in the world for a long time.

 

Also Samsung is a South Korean company. South Korea has no real "sides" in the China-US relationship so they're a bit more trustworthy

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On 5/25/2019 at 7:21 PM, DaRk0 said:

They introduced competition. That's it.

 

Also 'these superpower countries'. Which one do you mean?

The only superpower that banned Huawei is US. All the rest that participated in banning are not superpowers.

I have no idea if Australia did any banning or not, but I'll have everyone know that Straya' is a super power.  Our super power is the ability to continue being a rich and luxurious first world country despite the fact the world doesn't need us, our minerals are expensive and every second snake is deadly.

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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2 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

Okay @Sauron this discussion has changed, (but thank you for it none the less) you have started to use the standard SJW terminology such as 'xenophobia and feudal protectionism' to attack the person, not the message, and with this new attitude I am not able to tell whether the 'meaningless tribalism' you refer to is agreeing to or disagreeing with the technology exchange from Huawei to Iran in 2012. Perhaps you are out of your depth, it is fine if you are and do not understand the bigger picture. For example, when I said I did not know how things are in China, I was admitting my lack of knowledge, that is something I am happy to do.

You accuse me of using meaningless buzzwords but you start out with saying I use "standard SJW terminology"... terms like xenophobia, protectionism, feudalism and tribalism all have very real meanings you can look up. We are discussing the motivation of a very political act, it's impossible to separate the perpetrator's personal stances from his actions unless you're willing to take what he says at face value and look no deeper.

 

The technology exchange is irrelevant to the conversation - virtually every major tech company has broken US law at some point and I don't see trying to sell embargoed products as worse than tax evasion. The question is why Huawei has been specifically targeted and the only possible reasons are what I detailed.

2 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

There is no war pending, as much as you may believe that is my preferred outcome, no targeting of a corporation either. Chinese Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has decelerated from ten per cent in 2007 to less than six per cent in 2018 (and is projected today in 2019 at around three per cent). Although GDP is not that a great predictor as it is speculative depending on whose figures are used to determine it. The whole world’s economy is slowing, and all the larger national economies who have the most to lose for their constituents are scrambling to plug the holes in their domestic markets.

Absolutely irrelevant. Banning Huawei makes no sense economically for the US.

3 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

The newest technology software and hardware alike need to be calling home, by design, to operate. So not only would it be potentially possible to roll out an over the air update to sabotage critical infrastructure (power generation, sewerage and drinking water services) and essential information sharing (including the commercial and fiduciary components).

So there is "no war pending" but you argue in terms of military advantage. Please. Also, why would Huawei be different from the hundreds of Chinese brands that do business with US companies and sell their products there?

3 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

It would also be conceivable that such a deviation from the expected social norm would affect everything in the fifth-generation networked technology and not only at the individual attached appliance level either! With the increase in download speeds, the 5G technology is going to encompass the individual devices communicating and sharing information from machine to machine. It is this kind of espionage capability that would disrupt national civilian lives beyond that of a conventional war of bullets and bombs.

Maybe you're out of the loop but corporations (including and especially US based corporations) already invade your privacy at every turn. It's ridiculous to suggest Huawei is worse than Facebook or Google in this sense. There are so many ways of legislating against this without going for a trade ban but that would make the lobbyists unhappy... for instance it would be extremely easy to require network infrastructure to be open source, which would allow anyone to check if the cell is sending personal information home or has a built in kill switch.

3 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

The issues with the source code I discussed before of the E160G dongle mobile router were not fixed. All they did was enable the user to input a default home page in the device dashboard, much like the one in your browser. Shortly, after that, Huawei depreciated the device, and they have never actually patched the problem. In stark comparison with Windows XP which has recently received a Spectre, Meltdown and CVE-2019-0708, security patch support although the OS launched in 2001 and reached its end of life in 2014!

Do you want a list of all US made products that don't get critical security patches and don't plug backdoors even when they are found? Because the first name on the list is Intel, which literally has a backdoor in 90% of the world's IT infrastructure.

3 hours ago, SydneySideSteveSomewheres said:

To the OP,  @TheBritishVillain question of...What EXACTLY did Huawei do?

Huawei has that kind of capability now, and not forgetting that this discussion includes the Meng Wanzhou problem of sharing US technology that they did not own, which pre-dates this new-found ‘muricin’ awakening. What the US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, said seems to make sense, and it would be ‘especially egregious’ of governments to “hand over the keys to your entire society to an actor that has … demonstrated malign conduct.”

Again, irrelevant because the same goes for plenty of US based companies.

2 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

Reminder: Xiaomi was already caught planting backdoors. There's no gurantee that Huawei won't.

We know for a fact that Intel does this with the management engine. Where's the trade ban?

2 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

There's definently a reason for the "paranoia". China hasn't been the most trustworthy country in the world for a long time.

Neither is the US.

2 hours ago, realpetertdm said:

Also Samsung is a South Korean company. South Korea has no real "sides" in the China-US relationship so they're a bit more trustworthy

SK is a major ally of the US.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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On 5/23/2019 at 1:27 PM, TheBritishVillain said:

I don't want to know the other details about the ban, android etc... I just want to know exactly what they have alleged to have done and why it is so bad?

They haven't really been accused of any crime.

What politicians are saying is that maybe it's a little stupid to have a company that was started and is run by an ex Chinese version of the NSA agent build our telecommunications infrastructure.

Many people don't agree. I do. I feel like our critical infrastructure is a place to play it safe if ever I've seen one.

P.S: The bans were spurred on by the Canadian arrest and subsequent extradition of Huawei's CFO. Neither the Justice Department nor Huawei will tell us what she is  specifically charged with, but it's highly speculated that it involves her alleged involvement in laundering money to hide Huawei United States involvement in selling Iran communications equipment: An activity that is highly illegal in the US.


"Ultimately, saying that you don’t care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different from saying you don’t care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say." ~Verax

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Huawei has 5G. That's why US bans it. 

 


Sudo make me a sandwich 

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On 5/26/2019 at 8:24 PM, Andresteare said:

Yet, when Intel dominates the server market, China makes a deal with AMD to develop in the x86 platform to stop relying on american chips, they didn't go full douchebag banning american companies, because "they are in our ecosystem and they can spy us".

Ahem. Facebook, Google, Twitter, ect are banned in China, sometimes for censorship, sometimes unfairly to protect it's own domestic bussiness. 


Sudo make me a sandwich 

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1 hour ago, Sauron said:

You accuse me of using meaningless buzzwords but you start out with saying I use "standard SJW terminology"... terms like xenophobia, protectionism, feudalism and tribalism all have very real meanings you can look up. We are discussing the motivation of a very political act, it's impossible to separate the perpetrator's personal stances from his actions unless you're willing to take what he says at face value and look no deeper.

 

The technology exchange is irrelevant to the conversation - virtually every major tech company has broken US law at some point and I don't see trying to sell embargoed products as worse than tax evasion. The question is why Huawei has been specifically targeted and the only possible reasons are what I detailed.

Absolutely irrelevant. Banning Huawei makes no sense economically for the US.

So there is "no war pending" but you argue in terms of military advantage. Please. Also, why would Huawei be different from the hundreds of Chinese brands that do business with US companies and sell their products there?

Maybe you're out of the loop but corporations (including and especially US based corporations) already invade your privacy at every turn. It's ridiculous to suggest Huawei is worse than Facebook or Google in this sense. There are so many ways of legislating against this without going for a trade ban but that would make the lobbyists unhappy... for instance it would be extremely easy to require network infrastructure to be open source, which would allow anyone to check if the cell is sending personal information home or has a built in kill switch.

Do you want a list of all US made products that don't get critical security patches and don't plug backdoors even when they are found? Because the first name on the list is Intel, which literally has a backdoor in 90% of the world's IT infrastructure.

Again, irrelevant because the same goes for plenty of US based companies.

We know for a fact that Intel does this with the management engine. Where's the trade ban?

Neither is the US.

SK is a major ally of the US.

 

LOL.

 

I am South Korean and I can confirm that no, we cannot help the US or China in any way because if we do the other's going to be out for our asses.

 

Hahahhaha.

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3 minutes ago, realpetertdm said:

 

LOL.

 

I am South Korean and I can confirm that no, we cannot help the US or China in any way because if we do the other's going to be out for our asses.

 

Hahahhaha.

Right, believe that if you want. You don't have to be a military outpost to be strongly favourable towards a country.

1 minute ago, realpetertdm said:

Also can everyone just stop with the Whataboutism. "But the US does it" is not a good argument.

It absolutely is when the US uses their power to unfairly mess with a foreign corporation and the entire world's economy. If your position is that this is justified it's absolutely hypocritical not to demand the same treatment of every major tech corporation. It highlights that the misdeeds Huawei did are just an excuse. Trump doesn't care about any of that, he wants to appeal to xenophobes and enter a petty dick measuring contest with China. Everything else is a lie.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Right, believe that if you want. You don't have to be a military outpost to be strongly favourable towards a country.

It absolutely is when the US uses their power to unfairly mess with a foreign corporation and the entire world's economy. If your position is that this is justified it's absolutely hypocritical not to demand the same treatment of every major tech corporation. It highlights that the misdeeds Huawei did are just an excuse. Trump doesn't care about any of that, he wants to appeal to xenophobes and enter a petty dick measuring contest with China. Everything else is a lie.

Yes, we have some military bases. So?

 

Frankly speaking, you know nothing - yes, nothing, about South Korean politics. You should not be participating in a discussion about it if you don't know the topic.

 

Also your argument is a logical fallacy

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Just now, realpetertdm said:

Also your argument is a logical fallacy

Ah yes, forget having to give a proper answer when you can say there's a nondescript logical fallacy. Sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

 

Whether I'm right or wrong about SK doesn't matter to the core argument and so far the counterarguments on that front have been painfully weak. Keep grasping at straws to justify abuse of power and protectionism if you like, people see what they want to see I guess. I've done my best to explain why this is bullshit, there's no point in reiterating the same points any further.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Ah yes, forget having to give a proper answer when you can say there's a nondescript logical fallacy. Sounds like a logical fallacy to me.

 

Whether I'm right or wrong about SK doesn't matter to the core argument and so far the counterarguments on that front have been painfully weak. Keep grasping at straws to justify abuse of power and protectionism if you like, people see what they want to see I guess. I've done my best to explain why this is bullshit, there's no point in reiterating the same points any further.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

 

Mate, where did I defend the US? Stop dreaming up things.

 

Your knowledge of South Korea - US relations is painfully weak.

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