Pair of AMD Navi GPU's to be shown at Computex

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

You're wording proves otherwise.  But, I'm going to take the words of Lisa Su/AMD and Sapphire/one of their partners over the "my uncle works at Nintendo" defense and "you will see in the coming months why I am right!"-AdoredTV yet none of that happened at CES with his cute lil chart.  The October delays were also discredited by AMD in that chart.  Which takes away their credibility.  But hey, I guess you don't like facts.

again. im talking about this leak (aka the OP of this thread, not the amd chart) @leadeater

 

i tried to get to the original source, its gone. i tried looking into what kind of site zhihu is (the original source):

Zhihu is a Chinese question-and-answer website where all kinds of questions are created, answered, edited and organized by the community of its users.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhihu

 

how is this leak more credible than "my uncle works at nintendo"? we have no confirmation on who came up with it

[CiBi]

11 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Cheapest 2070 is asus strix at $450

 

PCPartPicker Part List

Video Card: Asus - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB STRIX GAMING Video Card  ($449.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $449.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-05-21 07:12 EDT-0400

 

other brands are in the same range $450 to $480

 

 

 

So 499$ is slightly more $ for slightly more than an RTX 2070...?

 

Also cheapest RTX 2070 here in western europe is 490$ if I subtract VAT, and the ASUS STRIX one is 590$ without VAT

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-7nm-radeon-rx-gpus-delayed-q4-2019/ Shittech being Shittech.

Well at least they didn't make the mistake of publishing that story after the stockholders meeting, that would have been real embarrassing.

[Neftex]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

The post was forced to be taken down "Given the information contained within the post, it is likely that Sapphire and/or AMD requested that the content be removed from the website. "  There's a thing called NDAs which is why this would be taken offline.  If Jim's source was from AMD, like he always claims AMD would do an investigation on the matter and his stuff would be taken down if you wanna be seriously.  I joked earlier that AMD didn't care, but that's because Adored is creating hype for something AMD hasn't given any info on other than to partner companies, like Sapphire, and to shareholders.  That's why this would be taken down.

1) we dont actually know the reason it was taken down - youre speculating

2) NDA doesnt allow you to take someone elses stuff off the internet, especially if said someone didnt sign any NDA with you

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Neftex said:

NDA doesnt allow you to take someone elses stuff off the internet, especially if said someone didnt sign any NDA with you

You may not have to but if such a request came through you would most likely comply, you would do that so you continue to receive press information packs from the company. You would also do it because you know that removing it doesn't actually matter because the internet never forgets, just like a company doesn't if you piss them off either, just save face and do it.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

1) It most likely is.

2) AMD and Sapphire didn't take it down the site did on most likely the request of Sapphire or AMD due to NDA between Sapphire and AMD.  That information is not supposed to be out until Lisa's keynote next Monday.

This was information a Sapphire rep said in public which he was not supposed to do.  This is what Jim/Adored says, "My source is from AMD, but I cannot give their name."    Doesn't matter if Jim didn't give their name there would be an investigation.  Even if they couldn't go after Jim they would go after the person at AMD leaking due to the NDA the person has with AMD.

This case isn't supposed to be just some guy either, "A Sapphire product manager and PR director have been speaking to the Chinese tech press about plans for Navi GPU launches next week". If nobody is able to figure out who this person is and verify the statements I'd be shocked, the list of possible people should be very small. Somebody should be able to find out who was there and ask what they heard.

[Ross Siggers]

1 hour ago, Firewrath9 said:

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 
SAPPHIRE TOXIC IS BACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

 

I had a Toxic HD5850. Ugliest card ever, it was like black with blue flames/stripes on it?? Eugh. Big old thing too.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Ya, that guy is probably getting shit canned and going to jail.

So just go looking through linkedin for people recently no longer working for Sapphire? 

[Neftex]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

1) It most likely is.

2) AMD and Sapphire didn't take it down the site did on most likely the request of Sapphire or AMD due to NDA between Sapphire and AMD.  That information is not supposed to be out until Lisa's keynote next Monday.

This was information a Sapphire rep said in public which he was not supposed to do.  This is what Jim/Adored says, "My source is from AMD, but I cannot give their name."    Doesn't matter if Jim didn't give their name there would be an investigation.  Even if they couldn't go after Jim they would go after the person at AMD leaking due to the NDA the person has with AMD.

1) so youre still speculating

2) has nothing to do with your earlier claim "if they wanted to be serious, NDA would allow them to take someones stuff down"

3) we dont have the source, all i see is websites citing each other (OP citing hexus, citing techpowerup, citing zhihu), basically we cant see who said it

[leadeater]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Byung-Hak Sim is literally the guy who has that job.

had*

[Neftex]

@valdyrgramr 3) and how tf do you know that he actually said it? where do you have a real source?

[Misanthrope]

The XT product is grabbing more of my attention: sure price disruption is usually attention grabber for tech nerds enthusiast around this place but if the XT product can improve on the 2070 and kinda, sorta trade blows with the 2080 it might be the first viable product for AMD where I can truly say "Yep, with some compromises but this is 4k ready" which is a big deal.

 

Of course I fear a repeat of the Vega launch where the 64 was really just not ideal to the point where the 56 with some undervolting chicanery was able to almost catch up to it because then yeah it's probably unwise to invest in anything other than 2080 (Unless 1080ti is found in the wild still) But I do hope Navi finally delivers without "Undervolt first" or "Wait for drivers" or "Only 1 premiere game is really good with us the rest is Nvidia optimized" and the long list of usual weak spots for Radeon which all more or less revolve around terrible launch driver support.

[Neftex]

7 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Hey now you're speculating!  Am I doing this right?  I already gave a source that is known for being credible.  Their source was from the one time Video-Cardz wasn't be as dumb as Jim, and actually got a something from what Byung-Hak Sim said at a public press event.  Seems pretty credible to me.  Compared to, "I have this source that works for AMD, but I cannot give their name!"  -AdoredTV.  But, I guess something that Byung-Hak Sim, a board member from Sapphire, said means nothing.  Don't trust anything someone from EVGA says in public either at a press event.  That's blind faith and not trustworthy.  Next week when Lisa gives her keynote in public don't trust a word she says either.  AMD's Lisa Su can't be trusted either!

you linked oc3d, who got it from videocardz, who again got it from zhihu. and we dont have the zhihu article/source. how is this so hard to understand?

 

we dont know what the zhihu thing actually was... was it direct statement from the PR guy? was it someones article claiming that the PR guy said it?

 

thats kinda different from direct statement from Su which you can look up directly and isnt gonna be deleted is it?

[boey]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

I know Q3 = July-Sep.

Yeah, just saying that they specified July 7. AMD themselves said Q3 though

[Humbug]

It's really good to see that there are going to be Sapphire partner models available at launch day! So we will not be stuck with AMD's reference cooler being the only option for the first few months. That's great, I hope this becomes the standard practice going forward. I am currently using a five year old Sapphire R9 290 vapor-x and it's been fantastic, beautifully built, cool, fast and quiet.

 

Also if this is true it's clear that AMD has decided to capitalize on the inflated GPU prices to sell with good margins and make as much money as possible. Nvidia's terribly inflated pricing on the RTX series had left AMD with a lot of room to play. So AMD had to decide whether to undercut Nvidia by $100+ and push for market share by giving revolutionary price/performance. This would have forced Nvidia price cuts as well. Instead of doing that AMD have decided to take advantage of the situation and also sell with good margins and pretty high prices, they know it will mean fewer units sold but would rather take the extra $$. With money flowing in to the CPU division it looks like they want a bit of that action for RTG, rather than trying to gain market share.

 

Also seeing the Radeon 7 on the roadmap too makes me think there is a chance of some Radeon 7 related changes too, instead of just continuing to sell it... Maybe there will be some aftermarket Radeon 7 models launched, or maybe a slight price cut to $650 or $599 in order to make the RTX 2080 look bad. But this will only be possible if the HBM 2.0 prices have come down with the rest of the memory prices in recent months (I'm not sure).

[Jurrunio]

24 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

The XT product is grabbing more of my attention: sure price disruption is usually attention grabber for tech nerds enthusiast around this place but if the XT product can improve on the 2070 and kinda, sorta trade blows with the 2080 it might be the first viable product for AMD where I can truly say "Yep, with some compromises but this is 4k ready" which is a big deal.

If AMD's past cards are any good for speculating, you can make Navi catch up if not beat the 2080 if you let it draw 400w of power...

[Neftex]

9 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Zhihu got it from an interview done apparently by 2 people, after doing more research, at an AMD gathering/press event in China for AMD's 50th anniversary. 

"The information comes from the Sapphire Technology Product Manager Leo and Public Relations Director Jenny. They talked about the upcoming AMD Navi GPU at AMD 50 Gathering in Chengdu, China."    So, maybe I was speculating on why it was taken down.  But, this was stated by 2 people from Sapphire at AMD's own event in an interview.

But, if ya want we can call it bs and just go off AMD's keynote instead.  That would probably be fair.  My biggest issue, if this i true, is the price difference between the 2 cards unless that was a bad translation. 
https://segmentnext.com/2019/05/21/amd-navi-gpu-release-date/  

the sole source claiming this is again zhihu (segmentnext -> reddit (wtf) -> zhihu). im not familiar with zhihu but as i already quoted earlier:

"Zhihu is a Chinese question-and-answer website where all kinds of questions are created, answered, edited and organized by the community of its users."

 

doesnt seem like trustworthy source, more like yahoo answers

[MeatFeastMan]

14 minutes ago, Humbug said:

It's really good to see that there are going to be Sapphire partner models available at launch day! So we will not be stuck with AMD's reference cooler being the only option for the first few months. That's great, I hope this becomes the standard practice going forward. I am currently using a five year old Sapphire R9 290 vapor-x and it's been fantastic, beautifully built, cool, fast and quiet.

 

Also if this is true it's clear that AMD has decided to capitalize on the inflated GPU prices to sell with good margins and make as much money as possible. Nvidia's terribly inflated pricing on the RTX series had left AMD with a lot of room to play. So AMD had to decide whether to undercut Nvidia by $100+ and push for market share by giving revolutionary price/performance. This would have forced Nvidia price cuts as well. Instead of doing that AMD have decided to take advantage of the situation and also sell with good margins and pretty high prices, they know it will mean fewer units sold but would rather take the extra $$. With money flowing in to the CPU division it looks like they want a bit of that action for RTG, rather than trying to gain market share.

 

Also seeing the Radeon 7 on the roadmap too makes me think there is a chance of some Radeon 7 related changes too, instead of just continuing to sell it... Maybe there will be some aftermarket Radeon 7 models launched, or maybe a slight price cut to $650 or $599 in order to make the RTX 2080 look bad. But this will only be possible if the HBM 2.0 prices have come down with the rest of the memory prices in recent months (I'm not sure).

This is exactly what I'm thinking here. I personally think they've pushed an otherwise very efficient card (Maybe even on par with Turing) out of it's comfort zone so they can get away with higher pricing. That explains the watercooler and it also explains why Buildzoid said that the Navi PCB suggested a power hungry card. I am by no means saying that the $250 2070 level performer was true, it was a load of nonsense. But I was expecting a 1080 performer around $300,  it seems they've bumped up those prices by 100.

 

 

[Humbug]

2 hours ago, MeatFeastMan said:

Onto more bad news, the price is a major issue here. Once again AMD are only managing to slightly beat Nvidia on price and performance

Assuming all this is true then AMD has made a strategic decision this time not to lower margins and fight a price war. That's what they normally do when they launch a new gen and hence they force Nvidia to cut pricing too, and then 80% of people buy Nvidia anyway...

 

This time it looks like AMD has decided instead to take advantage of the price escalations that Nvidia has created in order to sell GPUs with high margins and make some money, at the cost of market share obviously but they have decided the trade off is worth it.

 

By 'price escalations' I mean the below. The same thing that allowed the Radeon 7 to exist at all for gamers...

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Kinda why I'm iffy about leaving the US.  Prices outside of it are hot garbage.  XD

booooo ..... aargh! this is so tempting .. it seems nvidia prices have dropped again ... the

GIGABYTE AORUS GeForce RTX 2070 XTREME 8G grafische kaart(3x HDMI, 3x DisplayPort, USB-C)

 

is currently at offer of 629 euro's .... like i'm able to go to the store now and buy that damn thing i guess navi will keep under the new nvidia price else there won't be any place for them as bargain hero's ... or there strategy is changing

https://www.alternate.nl/GIGABYTE-AORUS/GeForce-RTX-2070-XTREME-8G-grafische-kaart/html/product/1490971?lk=26560

 

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I'm actually hoping it's bs, tbh.  The pricing is kind of bad if it's true, and I did actually reach out to Sapphire,  However, this is what they gave me, "Hi, SAPPHIRE is subject to AMD NDA guidelines and as such we will not comment on unannounced products or unconfirmed stories published on the web."   So, either the story was bs or the info wasn't supposed to be out yet.  But, we will find out on Monday when Lisa gives us her keynote.

There's a lot of skepticism about this one from most I've seen commenting on it. "Pro" name is odd and the price categories seem off.  And "Big Navi" has been a 2020 product and should just be the next Radeon Instinct card anyway.

 

The more interesting scuttlebutt is 8 Shader Engines in Navi, which could explain a lot of what's been going on.

[Humbug]

11 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

This is exactly what I'm thinking here. I personally think they've pushed an otherwise very efficient card (Maybe even on par with Turing) out of it's comfort zone so they can get away with higher pricing. That explains the watercooler and it also explains why Buildzoid said that the Navi PCB suggested a power hungry card. I am by no means saying that the $250 2070 level performer was true, it was a load of nonsense. But I was expecting a 1080 performer around $300,  it seems they've bumped up those prices by 100.

The water cooler isn't something that is necessary. It's just one partner model namely the Sapphire Toxic which is their flagship.

 

It's just something sold as a luxury item for enthusiasts. There will be other air cooled versions available and as long as they have a decent air cooler they will run cool and quiet, even if they are more power hungry than Turing.

 

I agree with you about pushing clocks past the comfort zone for a particular architecture. AMD has been doing this in their last few gens. It happened with Polaris, it happened with Vega, so now maybe with Navi too. They are power efficient architectures within their optimal clock speed envelope. But AMD will always push them beyond that in order to beat Nvidia on raw performance, which they have to do or nobody will buy it.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I feel like Sapphire basically saying "no comment" to me while talking about their NDA means this story = bs.  Which would make sense.  Looking it over again while more awake there is even conflicting to information between different outlets, going back to the original source it's from a reddit post that dug it off some bad website, Sapphire has an NDA, etc.  It seems shady as fuck.  I guess the only info we have now is that pic from AMD.  lol

Which comes back to what I raised earlier about the information being specific enough that it would make this easy to verify, yet none of these news outlets seemed to have bothered. None of them mentioned asking AMD nor Sapphire for official comment. It was a public event, people were there. Just tweet out asking for people who were there and can prove it then interview them, 5 minute twitter post and 10 minute skype call or just emails or DM.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I feel like Sapphire basically saying "no comment" to me while talking about their NDA means this story = bs.  Which would make sense.  Looking it over again while more awake there is even conflicting to information between different outlets, going back to the original source it's from a reddit post that dug it off some bad website, Sapphire has an NDA, etc.  It seems shady as fuck.  I guess the only info we have now is that pic from AMD.  lol

A lot of the Navi confusion seems to stem from it being a project that got really messy & drug out, plus mixed with details that are probably specific only to one of the console versions. So this strikes me as just another "reading between too many lines" and multiple Google Translate usages. 

 

The first run of Navi should be fairly small dies and AMD does know where it's market is at. Murdering the 2060 would be more valuable to them, which is why taking Vega performance and shifting it down a category is where the money would be at for them.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

that got really messy & drug out

Navi engineers were high on opioids?