Pair of AMD Navi GPU's to be shown at Computex

[pas008]

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Eyefinity does. Always has. That's what happens when you create a virtual resolution and present it to Windows.

 

No, they aren't.

yes but doesnt go unresponsive as long that the control panel window says its not responding

not responding is very typical on nvidias

you just have to wait for that lag or stuttering on nvidia

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, pas008 said:

not responding is very typical on nvidias

No, it's not.

 

7 minutes ago, pas008 said:

you just have to wait for that lag or stuttering on nvidia

That's an issue with YOUR SYSTEM, not the control panel.

 

Whereas you have to wait for AMD's animations (which, BTW, are used to hide lag.

[pas008]

24 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it's not.

 

That's an issue with YOUR SYSTEM, not the control panel.

 

Whereas you have to wait for AMD's animations (which, BTW, are used to hide lag.

oh on a fresh windows install and just like many across many forums

like I said many long time users that are dumbfounded by this

and many with prebuilt systems do I need to start linking shit

wow i'm done with your obtuse shit acting like nvidia cant have buggy, glitchy, shit

 

oh wait ddu exists

and there drivers are always perfect

no one complains about the control panel hanging

 

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

oh on a fresh windows install and just like many across many forums

Addressed this twice already, and it's literally your only argument.

 

Forums are not indicative of a product's quality, as users talking about good experiences doesn't happen nearly as much as those with bad experiences.

 

Those claiming Nvidia's control panel is shit are a vocal minority.

4 minutes ago, pas008 said:

wow i'm done with your obtuse shit acting like nvidia cant have buggy, glitchy, shit

If what you were claiming was true, sales wpuld reflect it.

[pas008]

7 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Addressed this twice already, and it's literally your only argument.

 

Forums are not indicative of a product's quality, as users talking about good experiences doesn't happen nearly as much as those with bad experiences.

 

Those claiming Nvidia's control panel is shit are a vocal minority.

If what you were claiming was true, sales wpuld reflect it.

going unresponsive for moments doesnt mean it still doesnt work

amd/intel still sell shit with their issues

just like games too

[Trixanity]

Why dont you just record some videos of the lag or lack of it so you can prove whether or not it lags. 

The "Yes, it is" and "no, it's not" is useless.

[ch3w2oy]

9 hours ago, Drak3 said:

It's not broken for thousands of machines, and if it were, sales wpuld reflect it.

Wow. I've used 3 different Nvidia GPUs (1060, 1080 ti and 2080) on 2 different machines and the same problems occurred. The software is slow. What setting you change is slow. It lags and you can't adjust a setting during gameplay because it freezes up for a few seconds. EVERY FUCKING TIME!!!!

 

AMDs software is way better and you have no clue what you're talking about.. That's ONE reason I changed over to AMD.. .. Wish I could have just ignored it but I hate any software that can't be adjusted on the fly..

 

Go ahead, say user error LOL.. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by ch3w2oy
Sorry

[ch3w2oy]

6 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Why dont you just record some videos of the lag or lack of it so you can prove whether or not it lags. 

The "Yes, it is" and "no, it's not" is useless.

I can confirm that it freezes every single time you click save or apply.. It was the same damn problem with my 1060, 1080 ti and 2080 (different machines as well).. Every time I used Nvidia Settings on right click desktop > Nvidia Settings, it freezes and lags each and every time you try to adjust and save a setting..

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

So, what you're telling me is this lag isn't an actual thing when I can verify it across multiple systems?

For most people, it isn't. Otherwise, again, Nvidia's sales would reflect this supposed issue.

 

And I don't have these issues on any of my machines, clean install or otherwise. It has never happened for me on any machine I've worked on that wasn't bloated to hell and back. Honestly, this forum is the first time I've heard about these "wide spread" issues, and it seems like """enthusiast""" forums is where the bulk of the talk about it is at. That latter component of this whole ordeal heavily signals that: no, this is not a widespread issue.

 

I genuinely don't give a shit that you verify it happens, I never said that it outright doesn't. I said that these issues are not nearly as wide spread as forums (that have tendencies to kling to bad things) and that the issue is likely PEBKAC. The nanoscopic odds that a basic program would stay in this state of disrepair and sales not be affected over the course of over 10 years defies logic.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Can you give me proof that for most people it isn't cuz that's a pretty bold statement that you have not proven.

1. Burden of proof is not on me, for I have not made the claim that this is a widespread issue.
2. Nvidia's sales do not reflect the notion of this issue being wide spread. If this were a wide spread issue, and it lasted for over a decade, Nvidia's sales would have been affected.

[xAcid9]

30 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I've also used AMD GPUs and seen others use AMD GPUs without this lag on the driver side.

That is your answer, these guys never experience a smooth control panel before because it's been like that since day 1.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

That is your answer, these guys never experience a smooth control panel before because it's been like that since day 1.

I run an RX470 along side my GTX 1080. My last main system ran a HD7750 and HD7770 in Crossfire. Neither of those control panels were any smoother.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Drak3

[Blademaster91]

26 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Can you give me proof that for most people it isn't cuz that's a pretty bold statement that you have not proven.  Nvidia doesn't sell on stability or performance Nvidia sells on marketing campaigns.  "It just works!"  "Just buy it!"  "Raytracing!  "Look at my sped up Batman video!"

 

You'd probably hate Geforce Forums then where there are a lot of non isolated problems.  My favorite being where Geforce gives you a faulty driver then you have to DDU them then go to the driver page and hope that one doesn't cause a problem. This is a known issue with GeForce.

I'm not sure what you mean with that claim? Nvidia does sell on stability and performance, since they don't even bother to change the control panel because for most people it does "just work". The mentions of wanting to change settings on the fly or tab out to mess with the control panel is stuff I really doubt the average gamer does and would just adjust graphics settings in the game. Yeah it would be great if Nvidia updated the control panel however I personally hardly ever need to use the control panel.

And they do focus on performance with faster cards, people really like to shit on the raytracing feature even though Nvidia isn't forcing you to use it.

I've seen the complaints on the Geforce forums, except I haven't had a faulty driver that everyone seems to be complaining about, one of the problems with any drivers is installing every new released update which isn't necessary unless the game requires a newer driver, and DDU with every driver update doesn't really hurt regardless of what GPU you use.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Can you give me proof that for most people it isn't cuz that's a pretty bold statement that you have not proven. 

Most people rarely actually use the Nvidia control panel i.e. install drivers, play games, yay good to go. Most would never notice this so would have no reason to complain about it. For those that do, or find these interface issues more problematic/annoying, it's not non existent. Even in this instance it's highly unlikely that someone would pull the GPU out and replace it, as we would say at work that's failing to realize the capital investment so a really bad TCO. Even if it's at a good time to replace no one is going to buy a worse value product from AMD either, Nvidia control panel interface issues do not out way performance.

 

The situation around the Nvidia control panel is simply that there is no market driving factor reasoning to update it, even purely from an outdated UI perspective without interaction issue.

 

Youtube is full of people complaining about it, forums are full of people complaining about it, google has no problems returning search results for it. There's no shortage of evidence that it exists, whether one is willing to believe it, or acknowledge it, is quite another thing. It's very hard to counter "I don't have the problem so it doesn't exist" or "I don't find it annoying so it's not a big problem".

 

I honestly believe very few people actually use the control panel, I rarely use the AMD one either. I would likely have more reason than most to go in to it as well since I'm dual GPU and have to on very rare occasion force off crossfire on certain Nvidia sponsored games.

[xAcid9]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I run an RX470 along side my GTX 1080. My last main system ran a HD7750 and HD7770 in Crossfire. Neither of those control panels were any smoother.

Then i guess you never really use NVCP extensively other than changing resolution, changing stuffs in global settings sometimes need 2 or even 3 clicks and you will see the twitching/refresh when it try re-populate everything while you changing some stuffs. 

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Youtube is full of people complaining about it, forums are full of people complaining about it, google has no problems returning search results for it.

Let's follow this trail down the rabbit hole.

 

 

No one should buy AMD cards, ever. Why? Because their drivers are shit, there are loads of people complaining about AMD's drivers on Youtube and forums.

No one should use Windows either. Why? Because it's subject to malware, there are loads of people complaining about that on youtube and forums. Not only that, but there are multiple companies dedicated to selling fixes!

And no one should buy MSI motherboards. Or The RTX 2080Ti. Or mix aluminum and copper in a watercooling loop. Or use watercooling dyes.

 

All of these have forums full of people complaining about issues. There are dozens of videos of people having issues.

 

 

 

And yet people still buy all of these things in large quantity because forums do not paint accurate pictures of a product's overall quality. Often, those are extreme cases.

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

Then i guess you never really use NVCP extensively other than changing resolution, changing stuffs in global settings

Wrong. Every fresh install of Windows, I need to tweak color, G-sync, over/underscale, and physX settings. I fresh install Windows every year at minimum, and every time I install a major update. Fine tuning within the driver software is something I have to do when running 3 different makes of monitors with two different GPUs.

 

To make the process easier, libraries are on their own drive, games on their own drive, and large files and backups on their own drive, with installers for all of my programs in duplicate on the library and backup drive.

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No one should buy AMD cards, ever. Why? Because their drivers are shit, there are loads of people complaining about AMD's drivers on Youtube and forums

You haven't been able to show nor identify if it's still a current issue. Were they or are they now still shit? You can find evidence of much things but you can do you own analysis of this situation to decide if it's still a problem or if it's big enough you should factor that in more.

 

If you put blinders on to the situation you're only ever going to see what you want to see, that's why they put them on race horses and it's quite effective.

 

Edit:

And I see no reason that this should be discussed more, topic is about AMD and computex.

[xAcid9]

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Wrong. Every fresh install of Windows, I need to tweak color, G-sync, over/underscale, and physX settings. I fresh install Windows every year at minimum, and every time I install a major update. Fine tuning within the driver software is something I have to do when running 3 different makes of monitors with two different GPUs.

 

To make the process easier, libraries are on their own drive, games on their own drive, and large files and backups on their own drive, with installers for all of my programs in duplicate on the library and backup drive.

Fresh install every year that's cute, i fresh install PC every day (except Sunday) and there's at least 2-3 minimum with Nvidia graphic and NVCP behave the same on each PC that i've tested. 

 

I've yet to see a PC that need 1 click to change 3D settings in NVCP so if yours doesn't behave that way i would like to see a video of it as a prove that there is a PC in this world that actually can run NVCP smoothly w/o twitching and shit.

4 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Literally just reinstalled on my 1950x workstation.  WTF is this loading between 3D Settings?  After opening different AMD SW on Vash everything loads instantly.  There's constant delays in NVCP.  <.<  WTF?!

Obviously PEBKAC.

[RejZoR]

3 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Then i guess you never really use NVCP extensively other than changing resolution, changing stuffs in global settings sometimes need 2 or even 3 clicks and you will see the twitching/refresh when it try re-populate everything while you changing some stuffs. 

It might not be as apparent for new games since most of stuff there apart from V-Sync modes don't really affect new games and you have to set them in game settings anyway. But if you're a regular GOG friendo or just nostalgic in general, those games do like graphic settings in control panel. And since cards are super fast now for those games, it's nice to crank up FSAA and AF settings and stuff...

[Trixanity]

I think the most ridiculous notion is that a control panel the vast majority of users won't touch (or if they do they'll do it once while following a guide to setup their system) will result in lost sales because it lags. The control panel doesn't need to be a great experience. It's just nice if it was. It's a convenience at best.

 

The whole reason AMD updated theirs in the first place was for marketing reasons. They already had the reputation for bad software so updating the entire software stack is an easy way of saying it's new and having a control panel that doesn't lag helps sell the idea that the software isn't bad. That it looks good gives consumers more confidence in the product. You need that when your market share has dipped below 25%.

 

Nvidia don't need to give any fucks about the control panel. At best they have one guy in some basement working on a new one as some kind of punishment or hazing. 

[Origami Cactus]

@Drak3 i have used the Nvidia control panel on a gtx1070, gtx1080ti, gtx870m, gtx1060m, gtx1070m, gtx 1060 they were all different pc's/laptops, and you know what they had in common?

They all had multi second lag every time you opened the Nvidia control panel, and when changing the tab/applying the settings. And when going to the 3d settings tab the lag is about 4-6seconds.

 

Meanwhile the amd control panel on the rx480 i tested opened instantly, and applied settings without having to wait multiple seconds.

[RejZoR]

6 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

That is your answer, these guys never experience a smooth control panel before because it's been like that since day 1.

I mean, you're literally not wrong on the "day 1" part. I had GeForce 6600GT when this "new" NV CP design came out as a beta leak. When it was officially launched I had 7600GT by that time. And back then in 2005, it already had same issues with pausing on Apply, lagging, scroll twitching the panel etc. I haven't had a single NVIDIA card after 7600GT until GTX 980. Guess what, all the problems were still present.

 

ATi had normal control panel at first and then changed it to CCC which people hated, but it actually wasn't that bad. It had it's flaws, performance being biggest one because it was quite fat and systems didn't have tons of RAM. But it looked damn nice. When AMD switched to Crimson panel however, that totally changed everything and it's just light years ahead of NVIDIA.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

ATi had normal control panel at first

You mean the one with the big blue buttons??

Back in Win 9x daye...

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

and then changed it to CCC which people hated, but it actually wasn't that bad.

They hated it because they needed to download M$ .NET. And back in the day the "Microsoft Hate" was at its peak. As well as AMD's competitiveness. IIRC the CCC was first introduced at the Radeon 9700 or 9800 time, when nVidia was way behind with their CineFX based architectures, as soon as the shaders started shading..

 

 

And it took a second or two to launch...

 

You could say that the bashing of it was something from the other side, from people that needed some fodder to not go the ATi Route...

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

It had it's flaws, performance being biggest one because it was quite fat and systems didn't have tons of RAM.

Not really. RAM wasn't the issues. And once it was loaded it was pretty responsive. It just took a couple of seconds to load and you needed to download additional Software -> Microsoft .NET and it was more that someone needed something to bash AMD with as they didn't have much on their side.

The only other thing at the time was "AF is better on nVidia)

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

But it looked damn nice. When AMD switched to Crimson panel however, that totally changed everything and it's just light years ahead of NVIDIA.

I disagree.

CCC was already pretty good and had a ton of features that youd didn't see on the other side for a long time.

In older ATi drivers you could force a resolution and refresh rates on VGA monitors, when they did have incompatible or no EDID data.

 

But with the new Crimson panel they threw a ton of settings out, partly because they were obsolete/legacy or because they are redundant with some Windows settings.

 

But they also added a ton of new, very useful features as well...

[RejZoR]

I still don't understand how .NET framework was this massive issue. We already had C++ VisualStudio Redistributables. .NET was same thing. Besides, Paint.NET arrived pretty soon and it was the core reason why I kept .NET installed.

[Humbug]

On 5/22/2019 at 6:59 PM, MeatFeastMan said:

Nvidia is mainly all about itself. It hasn't explored many options. AMD is partnering with others to make big money. Therefore, it makes sense for AMD to lower prices. Even if Nvidia follow up on that, it means less profits and with AMD's other partnerships and strengths with ryzen, they can rely on other areas. Lowering the prices is a very powerful tool for AMD, because most of where their money comes from is from Ryzen anyways. If Nvidia fell into that trap and decreased prices, it's only a negative for them, not for AMD. Nvidia's failure to branch out would have left them weaker had AMD continued to lower prices.

 

They are most likely using some money from what they gained with Ryzen to boost their gpu side. Nvidia are using the money they gained from their gpu's to fund their next generation of gpu's. By lowering prices, it levels the playing field in this instance because of the fact that their cpu side is stable and they have the funding gained from their cpu side to help them tackle Nvidia. If Nvidia's profits go down due to lower prices, and AMD gains loads from Zen2..then AMD will close in on Nvidia for the next generations while Nvidia has less profits. 

 

Lower prices is a good thing for AMD in the long term. It's a lose-lose for Nvidia. They either lower prices, have lower profits and therefore AMD catch up with profits from Zen2, Zen3 etc, or...they stay where they are and allow AMD to gain back market share.

I get what you are saying from a long term strategic perspective.

 

But I don't think Radeon Technologies Group would look at it that way right now. They mainly want to grow AMD's graphics revenue immediately. The whole company has turned around from being a loss making one to one with growing profits and they would want to keep that profit trajectory pointed upwards rather than playing games.

 

Right now Nvidia is still a far more profitable company. The focus is to get RTG to start generating some real money. i.e. a greater focus on making themselves more profitable. That would be a bigger priority now than trying to lower Nvidia's revenue.

e.g. AMD would prefer to make $500 while Nvidia makes 1000$, rather than AMD making $300 while Nvidia makes $600 in the hope that it damages Nvidia years later. AMD would value that extra $200 for themselves more than a $400 hit to Nvidia. (made up numbers).