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Pair of AMD Navi GPU's to be shown at Computex

MeatFeastMan
Just now, leadeater said:

And if they were talking about Toxic editions of the cards those are really expensive ones. $499 Toxic could be something like $400-$450 XC Black (Yea I know EVGA doesn't make AMD cards but it was the only cheap edition name I could remember lol).

Yeah, closer looks at the actual text really said practically nothing. It was vague PR speak about a 2070-class card and there were 2 price points mentioned. 399USD for 2070-performance would be a hot seller. 499USD for a high-end cooler setup and slightly better performance would compare against the cheapest 2070s. That's a big difference between what everyone has been talking about.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Not so much for a 25% tariff, that's beyond hand waving the cost away. Larger distributors and retails may be able to lessen the effects but 25% on consumers electronics is a lot, when is the last time you saw buy 3 RAM sticks get 1 free? ?.

Lol. I do agree that it's going to show up, but it won't look any different than other issues that shift prices around. Considering DRAM's drop in price recently, even a 25% increase would keep it lower than it has been for 2 years. Depending on the product and margins, it's going to be 8-15% at Retail. So between about 40 & 75USD per 500USD of product. It's definitely something and it will cause a readjustment within the market. 

 

However, we're still talking about electronics and a lot of them are still produced in a lot of places that either are exempt or the price is already factored in. Though, frankly, most won't really notice it. If it wasn't in the major news, only hardcore tech watchers would even notice. And it's not like a few companies didn't jack their prices up over the last 2 years anyway. (What's a core i9 going for?)

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It should also probably be noted that it wasn't high DRAM, dGPU or Intel shortages that ended up driving down computer sales. In fact, it seems everyone just bought last Christmas and Nvidia releasing a "meh" generation did more damage.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Nvidia releasing a "meh" generation did more damage

And AMD. Still waiting for an actually good 2x 290X replacement at a good price.

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2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And AMD. Still waiting for an actually good 2x 290X replacement at a good price.

Well, AMD needs to actually release something, lol. 

 

Honestly not sure why AMD has been sandbagging, at least on Zen2. The CPU silicon has been ready since at least March (not that early sales for Rome started to see deliveries in Q4). I'm guessing Navi got stuck in development hell because both MS and Sony needed a lot of engineering time for their custom variants.

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1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Well, AMD needs to actually release something, lol. 

Hey now, AMD has released something. A re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-brand ?

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Hey now, AMD has released something. A re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-brand ?

Don't want a RX590? :)

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3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And AMD. Still waiting for an actually good 2x 290X replacement at a good price.

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

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AMD will be supplying Polaris through 2024 .There's still another 5 years of Polaris to go. :)

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1 minute ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

We have a vague statement from a Sapphire rep that really said nothing. We know there's some higher tier SKUs coming with Navi, and 399USD for a 2070 would be around 150USD discount. Almost the entire discussion comes from injecting information that wasn't there and bad translations. We'll know more in just a few days.

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2 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

wasnt it rumors of gtx 1080 for 250, 2070 is close enough

 

those people that bought 1080s back on release made out like bandits

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3 hours ago, RejZoR said:
Spoiler

That's retarded. That basically goes against ALL reviews that bother benching shit and making easy to understand verdicts at the end or even mention price/performance ratio. Who else cares the most about that than mainstream users or normies? And those for the large part aren't people who buy RTX 2080Ti or Radeon VII. They buy shit like GTX 1650Ti because they think NVIDIA is the shit. And it's the shit. Literally. Because you'd get a far better card if you'd pick the RX580. Performance and money. Age and generation matters if you're buying top of the line and you expect latest and greatest shit for 800-1000€. At lower ranges it just doesn't matter. It's also hard to believe people just go and blindly buy shit without asking someone. I mean, literally every family has one geek who does the thinking and is regularly asked about this for sure. So, yeah, I don't understand who are these people who just go and buy something without really knowing what they are buying. It's like sending me to buy a combine harvester. I know how it looks and what it's meant for, but I have absolutely zero clue what features are important for it. I don't just go and buy something. So, yeah, it's a rather baffling situation...

 

It's called branding, marketing, and word of mouth. AMD does not do it as aggressively as Nvidia. 

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2 minutes ago, pas008 said:

wasnt it rumors of gtx 1080 for 250, 2070 is close enough

 

those people that bought 1080s back on release made out like bandits

What they were targeting. Total costs were probably too high to pull that off, but even dropping the price to sub-400 will be nice. 

 

Yeah, somehow early 1080 buyers, those that grabbed 1080 Tis for like 500USD at one point and launch Vega buyers somehow ended up with great purchases. For as nutty as last GPU Generation was, the fact those were the SKUs that made out is really strange.

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4 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

LMAO. If there is any company you should be "angry" at, that would be Nvidia for using their near monopoly powers to drastically inflate their margins and prices. AMD has nowhere near the R&D budget of Nvidia, so it is pretty impressive that they are even able to beat Nvidia on a price to performance basis in the mid range segment. And this was even before the inflated prices of the 20xx series. All those "leaks" stating that AMD will bring out a 2080ti competitor for three fiddy were just completely unreasonable. What you have to understand is that AMD is a company, not your friend. They don't create their products in order to give you a better deal, they produce products in order to create profit. And currently, it is simply unviable to go on a price war with Nvidia because even if they can offer 2080 performance for $400, the overwhelming majority of people will still end up purchasing Nvidia gpu's. So there is no incentive for AMD to cut prices, even if they could, because all that would achieve is lower margins.

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21 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

What they were targeting. Total costs were probably too high to pull that off, but even dropping the price to sub-400 will be nice. 

 

Yeah, somehow early 1080 buyers, those that grabbed 1080 Tis for like 500USD at one point and launch Vega buyers somehow ended up with great purchases. For as nutty as last GPU Generation was, the fact those were the SKUs that made out is really strange.

nvidia might have timed rt cards perfectly to one up intels version(guess larrabee was going to do real time rt)

 

which brings up intel using foveros and emib that kinda reminds me of those 3dfx cards I dreamt of when I was younger

 

wondering if thats why amd is just copying and pasting to buy time to have something similar to that using IF

 

sry random collective thoughts multitasking at work lol

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5 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Don't want a RX590? :)

that could have been a good mid life kicker had they not got stuck with too many polaris 20 gpus 

4 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

at this point how can you blame them, its not like consumers have been kind to amd, if not for mining they would have sold much less cards, and this opportunity didn't exactly fit into a time frame in which amd could release something.

at most amd could have solt the 590 for 580 pricing, but that would leave them with loads of unsold 580s 

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

nvidia might have timed rt cards perfectly to one up intels version(guess larrabee was going to do real time rt)

 

which brings up intel using foveros and emib that kinda reminds me of those 3dfx cards I dreamt of when I was younger

 

wondering if thats why amd is just copying and pasting to buy time to have something similar to that using IF

Intel's GP-GPU is still a full year away and consumer seems to be 2021 at the earliest. 

 

Nvidia brought RayTracing early because Pixar & those types of companies wanted it. They made RTX to pawn off the development costs onto normal Consumers. None of the RTX cards are really for Gaming. They're Workstation & Server cards stretched to game at the level of the previous generation for more money.

 

AMD's plans are different. They're going to end up controlling a huge chunk of the Display market via their Semi-Custom business, and their dGPUs are going to be smaller, mainstream cards along with Computer Cards. It'll be a funky mix but that's where the revenue is for them. AMD will keep solider along until they can roll out new architectures and Nvidia eventually cedes the entire dGPU Gaming market to them in about a decade.

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1 hour ago, MeatFeastMan said:

I think what we should all be very angry at here is the fact that AMD had the opportunity to gain back some market share here and help people escape the grasp of Turing. Why Lisa Su has chosen to go away from her strategy....it makes no sense. The low pricing market share strategy was working. Navi was supposed to be the breakthrough. I still believe the plan was to go for that 250-350 price range with 2070 performance, and that at the last minute they've changed their minds. I hope these prices are just Sapphire's high-quality models and we have a card around that 300-350 area.

 

I'm a big AMD fan here and it looks as if they've blown it again. The architecture is now in place, and the opportunity to take Nvidia on is there. Yet they've chosen to follow Nvidia instead. Just baffling.

I get what you are saying and I too expected them to blow away Nvidia's price/perf because they can.

 

But AMD is thinking like below

  • If we radically beat Nvidia price/performance then Nvidia will drop their prices too. And then 75% of people will buy Nvidia anyway ignoring AMD as usual. And we will be left with the other 25% at lower margins.

OR

  • We could just slightly better Nvidia price/performance. Maybe we will get just 20% market share of new GPU sales in those categories but hey now we have big fat margins and can make lots more money.... Done. Nvidia has created super high pricing with the RTX lineup, now we can take advantage of that.

 

Remember it's different from the CPU enthusiast and gamer market. In the CPU market when AMD puts out a good product gamers and enthusiasts buy it. The uptake of bulldozer and the uptake of Zen is poles apart, because the latter is a good product. So here AMD knows that it is worth it to lower prices because people will buy and then can really grow their market share. Buyers are more rational and will flock to the better product be it Intel or AMD. But in the GPU market most people just buy Nvidia even if it is not as good.

 

So it was inevitable that at some point this would start factoring into RTG's decision making. Lowering prices works if users are willing to switch away from Nvidia and really change the market share balance. Then AMD would think this is worth it to gain market share even at lower margins. If not why bother... better to make money.

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@Humbug The dGPU is also an upgrade market. AMD is probably going to run out a lot of 970 and 980 comparisons with the Navi launch. Those will be their targets, but AMD will probably take the middle of the road approach. Better performance per tier and better price/performance, but it won't be massive. They'll want their margin still.

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18 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Intel's GP-GPU is still a full year away and consumer seems to be 2021 at the earliest. 

 

Nvidia brought RayTracing early because Pixar & those types of companies wanted it. They made RTX to pawn off the development costs onto normal Consumers. None of the RTX cards are really for Gaming. They're Workstation & Server cards stretched to game at the level of the previous generation for more money.

 

AMD's plans are different. They're going to end up controlling a huge chunk of the Display market via their Semi-Custom business, and their dGPUs are going to be smaller, mainstream cards along with Computer Cards. It'll be a funky mix but that's where the revenue is for them. AMD will keep solider along until they can roll out new architectures and Nvidia eventually cedes the entire dGPU Gaming market to them in about a decade.

many rumors saying 2020 for intels first gpu

 

many devs in gaming industry have wanted rt for decades, considering reflections/lighting are much work

 

 

all companies will have smaller cards too and all of them have chiplet like diagrams/designs/connections/patients, they need to work on latency

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34 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

that could have been a good mid life kicker had they not got stuck with too many polaris 20 gpus 

at this point how can you blame them, its not like consumers have been kind to amd, if not for mining they would have sold much less cards, and this opportunity didn't exactly fit into a time frame in which amd could release something.

at most amd could have solt the 590 for 580 pricing, but that would leave them with loads of unsold 580s 

If not for mining, AMD could have sold a lot more cards to gamers, amd was catering to the miners instead of the regular gaming consumers that didn't really have much choice but to buy the Nvidia card. People want to blame Nvidia for inflated gpu prices except dgpu prices were inflated because of mining.

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amd vs intel cpu and amd vs nvidia gpu is quite different

 

while in cpus its very obvious which one is better choice for the workload, in gpus it doesnt work that way

in games you can see the cpus perform more consistently between amd and intel, but for gpus you see massive swings between each game.

so its hard to argue clear gpu winner most of the time, and when that happens people just buy whats more popular - nvidia

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1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

If not for mining, AMD could have sold a lot more cards to gamers, amd was catering to the miners instead of the regular gaming consumers that didn't really have much choice but to buy the Nvidia card. People want to blame Nvidia for inflated gpu prices except dgpu prices have been higher because of mining.

rtx inflated prices are in no way caused by mining

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5 minutes ago, Neftex said:

rtx inflated prices are in no way caused by mining

it showed gamers were willing to pay more though

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