Intel, Qualcomm and other chipmakers cut off Huawei supplies

[Trik'Stari]

8 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

But of course - I am very hypocritical .

On a more serious note.

 

I would postulate that the beliefs and ideology of a people are not what influences what their nation wants to achieve (in terms of goals and whatnot) - the physical circumstances of the people/nation are what dictates their expression of government, religions, and beliefs.

• The Anglo-American nations (along with Australia/NZ as well) are loosely centralized settler-states because they settled on (comparatively) productive lands with no dominant ethnicity. We currently see that manifest as a multi-layer "democracy" (interpret that term as loosely as you will).
• China (any time it is "unified" in any fashion) will almost always be some form of authoritarian state due to the difficulties of tying together a disparate population of wildly differing geographies (and ethnicities, although Han assimilation has mostly taken care of that).
• etc.

Already there. Less 10% of the American economy is dependent on global trade (as exports; state-by-state statistical fluctuations notwithstanding), and almost more than half is done within the borders of NAFTA and CAFTA (Central America). 

You do realize that's already happening? South-East-Asia will likely replace (or rather, are already replacing) China as the primary source of cheap production. American firms reshoring production back to the states will occur as a mere byproduct of trade uncertainties (co-location to the consumer base, less worry of a tweet shutting off one of your supply chains, etc. etc). Whether that will bring manufacturing jobs with it is an entirely different issue (automation kills operator/technician-tier factory jobs).

You miss the point that the US, or rather the settlers, only did what almost every other people did, but much longer ago. We only have more historical records for the settling of the US, compared to all of Europe and asia.

 

Also I've been hearing rumblings about a lot of manufacturing eye-balling Africa instead of Asia for future expansion. I have no sources on this, but I'm not looking for them at the moment. Will have to do more research.

 

The point is, I want China to have FAR less global power than they do, mainly because I'd like to see a democractic movement overthrow their current government.

 

 

6 minutes ago, floofer said:

 

China vs USA the reality. Just as corrupt and as bad as each other when it comes to this. Although we should not talk politics! 

 

IMO US has much more to lose, and this is just part of the Trade War.

I agree, but still. At least we maintain a somewhat false image of democracy. Hell, Trump got elected to EVERYONES surprise. Even my own. I will never forget how hard I laughed waking up to see that Hillary had lost. The only reason the machine followed through is that they knew if they didn't actually put him in power, there would likely have been an armed revolution after it exposed itself for what it is.

 

Meanwhile in China, there will be no more elections for "president". Comrade Pooh Bear will be "president for life", which anywhere else would just be called "king" or "dictator" or whatever term you want to use.

[rawrdaysgoby]

6 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

 

The point is, I want China to have FAR less global power than they do, mainly because I'd like to see a democractic movement overthrow their current government.

 

I guess that is fair. But in the history books as well they have never invaded other countries much less win any wars with others. Usually with them doing their own things. As far as communism goes they are the best of the worst and hey they are pretty much capitalist as the usa. There are advantages to communism compared to democracy depending on the government. I am fine with them having far less global power but at the same time the U.S.A. should really be dialing back their own global power as well.... But as China becomes more and more globalize and influenced by outside powers and democracy the next generation or so we might actually be getting a very different china. 

 

According to those philosophers things can always start with democracy but will slowly devolve into communism or worst dictatorship. The thing is outside of China they are playing by the books but inside.... they play by their own laws. Truth to be told they haven't actually done anything really totally incriminating... "Most" of the things stolen/intellect was brought in by other countries themselves due being cheaper to manufacture in said country... But hey no one can say that other countries wouldn't do the same thing. And China got recognized thanks to the USA  giving them some credibility for other countries to get involved as well, a lot of the reason China became a super power is mainly due to the USA screwing themselves.... Oh well...    

[thorhammerz]

29 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The point is, I want China to have FAR less global power than they do,

Rejoice - the circumstances that allowed China to grow into what it currently is, is by-and-large American-made. And the Americans are leaving.

 

The fact that the Chinese even began negotiations with the American positions as they are ("hey, we'd like you to do these things that will threaten your entire economic system and probably cause mass social unrest. kthxbai"), is testament to how lopsided the system is (and they know it).

Quote

mainly because I'd like to see a democractic movement overthrow their current government.

We can only hope

 

Their crackdown on anything resembling free speech is in large part preparation to deal with what's to come in the next 1-2 decades: your population can't revolt if you control what they think. At least, theoretically .

[D13H4RD]

15 minutes ago, Schnoz said:

This is important:

Google has banned Huawei from using Android Q and newer versions in their phones

Not exactly.

 

They can still use the AOSP build of Android Q. They just won’t get Google certification and potentially early builds to build their own take on Android on as early as possible.

[Misanthrope]

3 hours ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

if anyones gonna do any sort of spying, it's gonna be US!

Sorry but I kind of have to agree here: China might be scary big and powerful in the economy right now, but then there's the guys who literally have military bases on every nook and cranny around the world, metaphorically holding a gun to the head of every single other nation.

 

Most are just not crazy enough to object to their spying.

[Arika]

27 minutes ago, comander said:

You only say that because Australia's top trading partner is China and geopolitical strife means vastly reduced prosperity in the land down under. 

Not just Australia, but can you imagine if the US decided "ok, all you other countries, stop trading with china or we're going to stop all our exports to your countries" i know it's an extreme example, but that's effectively what the US has done here "we don't like china and Huawei, so no US tech company and supply any products to Huawei"

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, Fooshi said:

 

The same way the US has never toppled governments, invaded other countries for resources under the guise of "peace" and spied on other countries citizens.

 

Right?

china does the same thing they simply go about it in a more quiet way 

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

You miss the point that the US, or rather the settlers, only did what almost every other people did, but much longer ago. We only have more historical records for the settling of the US, compared to all of Europe and asia.

 

Also I've been hearing rumblings about a lot of manufacturing eye-balling Africa instead of Asia for future expansion. I have no sources on this, but I'm not looking for them at the moment. Will have to do more research.

 

The point is, I want China to have FAR less global power than they do, mainly because I'd like to see a democractic movement overthrow their current government.

 

 

I agree, but still. At least we maintain a somewhat false image of democracy. Hell, Trump got elected to EVERYONES surprise. Even my own. I will never forget how hard I laughed waking up to see that Hillary had lost. The only reason the machine followed through is that they knew if they didn't actually put him in power, there would likely have been an armed revolution after it exposed itself for what it is.

 

Meanwhile in China, there will be no more elections for "president". Comrade Pooh Bear will be "president for life", which anywhere else would just be called "king" or "dictator" or whatever term you want to use.

if anyone wanting to do that is reading this, just don't, the road blocks you need to face are so large and recurring that its really not worth the effort 

1 hour ago, rawrdaysgoby said:

I guess that is fair. But in the history books as well they have never invaded other countries much less win any wars with others. Usually with them doing their own things. As far as communism goes they are the best of the worst and hey they are pretty much capitalist as the usa. There are advantages to communism compared to democracy depending on the government. I am fine with them having far less global power but at the same time the U.S.A. should really be dialing back their own global power as well.... But as China becomes more and more globalize and influenced by outside powers and democracy the next generation or so we might actually be getting a very different china. 

 

According to those philosophers things can always start with democracy but will slowly devolve into communism or worst dictatorship. The thing is outside of China they are playing by the books but inside.... they play by their own laws. Truth to be told they haven't actually done anything really totally incriminating... "Most" of the things stolen/intellect was brought in by other countries themselves due being cheaper to manufacture in said country... But hey no one can say that other countries wouldn't do the same thing. And China got recognized thanks to the USA  giving them some credibility for other countries to get involved as well, a lot of the reason China became a super power is mainly due to the USA screwing themselves.... Oh well...    

you just didn't see it, i lived in africa for a while, and while they did not invade they have the government in their hands, the amount they have stole from mozambique alone is in the thousands of container ships filled with expensive wood to the brim (they only payed for the transport), they have also stole lots of ivory, bought cheaply all the iron they could find, and much more i dont know about.

in the early days it was also very common to see chinese people running around photographing everything, with the purpose of trying to make copies to sell. they also managed to get a deal where chinese owned businesses dont pay taxes in the first 5 years (by which point they close it down and start it again), btw that also happened here in portugal which lead to the closing of most small shops in the country (all but the food related shops).

[PawnKwong]

40years ago，that is TOSHIBA & SONY，now that is ZTE & HUAWEI，who will be the next？ SIEMENS?  PHILIPS? ERICSSON? SAMSUNG? LG?

[dizmo]

I don't think this really affects them that much. I mean, for their notebooks the Intel cut off might be a bit tough to swallow. But Qualcomm? Not really. They've already started manufacturing their own chips quite a while ago, and they've been developing their own OS. They're steadily working their way to self reliance. I'd be interested to see how many people adopt their phones once they no longer use Android, and instead use their own home grown OS. I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

19 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

I feel so sorry for Huawei. Literally getting picked on 'cause they're the biggest kid on the block.

 

Interestingly I'd say all this is going to do is make sure that China develops in-house expertise in the areas they currently rely on America for so that America can't do this again.

Not really. They're being picked on because of their push of 5G infrastructure. China is already working towards complete self reliance, the China 2025 initiative. Something that worries Trump, as it'll make the US largely irrelevant to them, as well as the stolen tech implications.

19 hours ago, tinverse said:

From my understanding this has nothing to do with what US companies want to do. This has everything to do with what the US government is forcing companies to do. All of these US based companies are losing large amounts of money from this.

 

For me, I am really curious about the future implications of all of this. I know Huawei is more closely linked to the Chinese government than other manufacturers, but almost all phones are designed or built in china. Are you safe if you buy LG or Apple? What about ASUS; Taiwan is under Chinese influence too. Does this have implications for other Chinese phone manufacturers such as onePlus?

They're not targeting phones. That's a huge misconception. They're targeting Huawei because of their 5G infrastructure. None of the other companies produce 5G equipment, so they're really at 0 risk of being targeted.

18 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

AMD should be able to either sell directly or at worst walk around the ban the same way they are selling EPYC CPUs to China. 

 

It all depends if AMD ends up having to honour the ban.

AMD isn't affected because they don't sell anything to Huawei. If they did, it'd be a different story. It's any US company, not specific ones.

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

.... Fucking USA, they have too much power and should be broken up. The precedent has now been set that the US can pass a law to effectively cut off foreign companies entirely when it comes to tech. 

Those companies could simply move their offices offshore if it really bothered them that much. I imagine they stand more to lose than they do to gain, so they won't.

16 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Sorry but I kind of have to agree here: China might be scary big and powerful in the economy right now, but then there's the guys who literally have military bases on every nook and cranny around the world, metaphorically holding a gun to the head of every single other nation.

 

Most are just not crazy enough to object to their spying.

Eh, you say that now, end of the second world war those bases were there for protection of everyone else. Like it or not, without the US the world would be a very different place than it is today. Sure, the US is powerful, but I'd much rather them be in power than China. At least the US government can be affected by the views of the people it rules. Same can't be said for China.

[Oalei]

well this is kinda how to survive with competition everywhere so kinda make sense.

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, dizmo said:

AMD isn't affected because they don't sell anything to Huawei. If they did, it'd be a different story. It's any US company, not specific ones.

yeah i know its any US company. which means they can walk around it using their shell company in China. which they specifically use to sell EPYC CPUs to china. 

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

yeah i know its any US company. which means they can walk around it using their shell company in China. which they specifically use to sell EPYC CPUs to china. 

That's actually not what they did, as that's illegal, but ok.

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

That's actually not what they did, as that's illegal, but ok.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/07/china-producing-x86-chips-nearly-identical-to-amd-server-processors/

 

reffering to this old piece of news. its a "shell" company, not the best term to be used. 

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/07/china-producing-x86-chips-nearly-identical-to-amd-server-processors/

 

reffering to this old piece of news. its a "shell" company, not the best term to be used. 

I see joint venture, and the fact it's an embedded chip, not an actual CPU being sold. Nothing about a shell company. Perhaps you don't know what a shell company is?

[Misanthrope]

23 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Eh, you say that now, end of the second world war those bases were there for protection of everyone else. Like it or not, without the US the world would be a very different place than it is today. Sure, the US is powerful, but I'd much rather them be in power than China. At least the US government can be affected by the views of the people it rules. Same can't be said for China.

You mean protection from the USSR, "the focus of evil in the world"? Yeah I know this was the birth of the red panic and the cold war, it's still a war, it's still not something that justified the escalation of the militarization other than "Because we can because we won WWII and also, evil commies"

 

It wasn't justification for the Russians either to build their military and also wasn't for the US to build up theirs in some sort of twisted preemptive defense by threatening. Both nations were just fucking imperialists assholes after the war.

[GoldenLag]

17 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Perhaps you don't know what a shell company is?

i do know what it is, but its a whole lot shorter to say shell company than to explain that situation right there. 

17 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I see joint venture, and the fact it's an embedded chip, not an actual CPU being sold.

ah, so not something that could be used for Huawei then. 

[RoseLuck462]

Should I bash the US and get my Chinese Social Credit points?