Intel processors not looking so brilliant anymore. Plus AMD's debt problems get better with each passing quarter

[GoldenLag]

Just now, RejZoR said:

Yeah, but you can't shit on a company for "may be vulnerable sometime in the future, maybe". And I'm getting that vibe just about now towards AMD... Uh oh AMD is just the same, we just haven't found the vulnerabilities yet. I mean, just read your comment a bit and think about it.

And @Arika S didnt shit on AMD or their products.

 

13 minutes ago, Arika S said:

it would be irresponsible to think that Intel are the only ones with issues.

Id also suggest reading her comment as it is merely a precation of issues that might hit AMD. 

[thorhammerz]

14 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Keep in mind that AMDs currentl products haven't been around long in the grand scheme of things, there is a very real possibility that AMD could be affected by vulnerabilities not yet discovered where the "mitigations" could lead to similar performance drops. it would be irresponsible to think that Intel are the only ones with issues.

Shhh, don't go spoiling their enthusiasm with logical pragmatism .

 

Fanboys have their place in driving hype & sales (and thus indirectly share prices) up .

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, Albal_156 said:

Well weren't Intel on the same process node for like 4 generations? AMD is changing the process nodes between Zen and Zen 2 so you would think that would have an effect.

Security wise it changes nothing......

 

Also 14nm node was around, and still is around at AMD and has been around since polaris. Which was in 2016......

[Arika]

10 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

So, we're blaming AMD for "would be potential vulnerabilities, maybe" now? If they are found, sure. But having attitude that AMD is just the same, we just haven't found them yet sounds awful lot like something Intel fanboy would say... Everyone has that, so you can't use it as an excuse. Hell, Intel had that until it was found their CPU's have tons of holes dating back many generations.

that's not what i'm saying at all... I'm saying don't be bias and speak of doomsday because there's only been vulnerabilities found in one companies products, hell for all we know Apple's A series and Qualcomm's snapdragons could also be effected. But to point at Intel with a sign saying "look how bad these are" while ignoring everything else is just as AMD "fanboy-y" as what you claim i said.

 

Treat everyone on the same level, holding a company up on a pedestal because of another companies misfortunes is a terrible way to think. 

[RejZoR]

Oh come on ppl. No one is pretending AMD is perfect, but have you ever seen me saying "um lol, I bet we'll find 10 more vulnerabilities with Intel in the future" so lets shit on it now just the same is really lame attitude. This wasn't even the case of "uh oh people analyzed Intel CPU's for decades and found vulnerabilities". It's the case of they found them now and as it turns out, they work on their CPU's dating ages back. It's a big difference how you present the thing...

 

@Arika S

Um, lol? I'm a "fanboy" for not shitting on AMD for "yet undiscovered vulnerabilities". WHAT? You people are delusional Intel fanboys. Yeah, I'm not shitting on AMD because they mostly aren't affected by them at all and those that were found were so oddly specific it's unlikely anyone would ever exploit them in any case and would at that point be feasible on ANY CPU (like where you were required a local physical access for the execution coz at that point you can basically do whatever you want with ANY system). I will when someone does find them for real. Until then, I'll reserve my criticisms at AMD.

[strajk-]

I'm most likely sitting this release out, I'm waiting for DDR5 and whatever Zen processor that releases which supports it.

But if I do go through with it these would be rigs I would take into consideration:

• My main rig uses a 4790k, has been good enough for now, so no hurry on that, development, rendering and videogames are acceptable.
• My webserver has a 4th gen Intel U processor which hosts some VMs and Bots/WebServices I wrote, fucker is a champ that has been doing his job great for the past years, I might retire him with the upcoming Zen.
• My Capture Card rig also has a low profile 3rd gen locked Intel Processor that never drops frames at Very Low CPU Preset, have been looking into replacing it with whatever 32c/64t TR that's releasing this gen to jack quality up.
• My two dedicated servers for hosting Game Servers are also running on low profile 2nd gen Intel Processors, whenever they host something they work perfectly fine, never ran into a Bottleneck for that workload so far.

5 potential upgrades, wallet is going to scream.

[Albal_156]

Yeah AMD can't outcompete Nvidia in the graphics card market apart from at the lower and some of the mid range end of it. Plus Intel will come out with something great I'm sure of it. The company who invented the x86 instruction set doesn't just disappear from the market because it decided to give-up. I look for what company is making the best products rn and for me its AMD (CPUs) and Nvidia (GPUs). Bear in mind though I haven't got the money to splash on a 9900K. If I could I would but I don't. Not just because I ideologically hate Intel. I'm a bit pissed at them for not innovating the CPU market in almost 10 years but apart from that its all down to the product that the company makes. I'm excited for Project Xe actually and what it could bring.

[GoldenLag]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Oh come on ppl. No one is pretending AMD is perfect, but have you ever seen me saying "um lol,

And noone is claiming AMD is some big baddie because they might get hit in the future.

 

Just because someone is saying one shouldnt be expecting AMD to be problem freendpesnt mean they are saying: "lol AMD Bad cuz they might in a potential future be hit"

[Arika]

6 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

-snip-

I'm not shitting on AMD in any way...All i'm saying is be cautious and don't use articles like these to jump to conclusions, and I'm not saying this specifically to you, i'm saying it in general. surely you've heard of the old adage "don't count your eggs before they hatch" that's all i'm saying

[GoldenLag]

3 minutes ago, Albal_156 said:

Yeah AMD can't outcompete Nvidia in the graphics card market apart from at the lower and some of the mid range end of it

Radeon 7 is fine......

 

And no they arent competing with the Titan card known as the 2080ti.

[Albal_156]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

I'm not shitting on AMD in any way...All i'm saying is be cautious and don't use articles like these to jump to conclusions, and I'm not saying this specifically to you, i'm saying it in general. surely you've heard of the old adage "don't count your eggs before they hatch" that's all i'm saying

Yeah both companies could have issues. Intel are just further into their architecture than AMD are at this point and people have figured out how to exploit it.

[D13H4RD]

21 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Um, lol? I'm a "fanboy" for not shitting on AMD for "yet undiscovered vulnerabilities". WHAT? You people are delusional Intel fanboys. Yeah, I'm not shitting on AMD because they mostly aren't affected by them at all and those that were found were so oddly specific it's unlikely anyone would ever exploit them in any case and would at that point be feasible on ANY CPU (like where you were required a local physical access for the execution coz at that point you can basically do whatever you want with ANY system). I will when someone does find them for real. Until then, I'll reserve my criticisms at AMD.

Zen is still really new. While I'm sure its very design makes it inherently resistant to security flaws, no architecture is perfect and there will be some holes here and there.

 

Nobody was shitting on AMD here, and nobody really shat on Intel either. I mean, the exploits on the Intel processors were never exploited anyhow, but it was then patched.

[Albal_156]

Yeah and then the patches made performance go down a bit and some wanted to disable hyperthreading which could contribute to a bigger lack of performance. Plus AMD CPU's will get better for Zen2 so if the 8700K is closer to the 2700X now Zen 2 might on the same level as it. But yeah nobody was shitting on anybody here. Intel have just dominated the market for many years and its good to see a bit of competition as it keeps both companies from running away with things.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Albal_156 said:

But on out of the box specs they might be more similar

The real question is what are the out of the box thermals

 

Spoiler

Who still remembers that? 

 

[RejZoR]

12 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Zen is still really new. While I'm sure its very design makes it inherently resistant to security flaws, no architecture is perfect and there will be some holes here and there.

 

Nobody was shitting on AMD here, and nobody really shat on Intel either. I mean, the exploits on the Intel processors were never exploited anyhow, but it was then patched.

People here make it seem like vulnerabilities were found for Intel because it had this design for years. Which is just not true. Vulnerabilities were found now "by chance" so to speak and were found to trail back for generations. Age of processors (their existence) has NOTHING to do with the reason they were found.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Which is just not true. Vulnerabilities were found now "by chance" so to speak and were found to trail back for generations.

Absolutely not, these researchers were specifically looking in to such vulnerabilities continuing existing research that found spectre and meltdown. None of this was 'by chance'. I don't by chance find my car in the driveway when I go out to drive it, I mean it might not be there if someone stole it but I wouldn't by chance discover that either.

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

People here make it seem like vulnerabilities were found for Intel because it had this design for years. Which is just not true. Vulnerabilities were found now "by chance" so to speak and were found to trail back for generations. Age of processors (their existence) has NOTHING to do with the reason they were found.

Actually, it sort of does, especially when the core design of it hasn't really changed all that much. 

 

The thing is, if Intel chipsets had this issue that passed down several generations, why was it found at this time simply "by chance"? There's more to this. 

[williamcll]

Aren't these vulnerabilities supposed to be stopped at a software level through antiviruses?

[strajk-]

3 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Aren't these vulnerabilities supposed to be stopped at a software level through antiviruses?

No, these are micro architectural vulnerabilities, an Anti-Virus can only do so much.

They usually block depending on Program behavior, signatures, and much more.

[schwellmo92]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

 

Does it "feel" low end. Its still a pretty darn capable CPU

Depending on your game, some games you’ll get noticeable frame stuttering in heavy scenes which isn’t acceptable for some of us. If that guy wants to upgrade from a 6600K that is a perfectly acceptable reason to upgrade, it is a barely capable processor by today’s standards.

[mr moose]

56 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Zen is still really new. While I'm sure its very design makes it inherently resistant to security flaws, no architecture is perfect and there will be some holes here and there.

 

As far as I am aware AMD also doesn't pay as lucratively for exploits found in their products.  Why would anyone concentrate on their products if there's no money in it? 

 

11 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Depending on your game, some games you’ll get noticeable frame stuttering in heavy scenes which isn’t acceptable for some of us. If that guy wants to upgrade from a 6600K that is a perfectly acceptable reason to upgrade, it is a barely capable processor by today’s standards.

There is a lot of discussion about this guys desire to upgrade,  but he hasn't even said why or what he does.  I am on a 4 core i5 3rd gen.  I have no issues playing any of the games I play, apart from the extra time it takes to render a video I would not notice very much in an upgrade.  If this bloke is in the same position then even going all the way to HEDT is hardly going to get him noticeable results.  It just seems a moot discussion as regardless of the on paper or specific situations where an upgrade does work we just don't know if his usages warrants an upgrade.

[SupaKomputa]

1 hour ago, Eaglerino said:

Steam hardware survey is still overwhelmingly Intel... I'm sure they'll be fine

Ofcourse, people still using 3-5 years old cpu to game.

You have to look at the market capitalization in 1-2 years back.

And if you look at the monthly percentages, AMD is rising each month.

AMD value as a company is only 5% of intel, but the market share is around 35%.

That is good news.

 

Yes intel will be fine, consumer market are peanuts to them, even if AMD stole a big chunk, it won't suddenly die.

The money is in the server business.

[yian88]

I own and i5 7300hq legion y520 and i cant wait to get rid of this garbage intel + nvidia gpu laptop, cant wait for  zen2 6 core laptops with navi gpu 7nm, never again wil i buy intel,  most likely their foveros chips wil be trash aswell.

[Trixanity]

While AMD's CPU business is looking very healthy, I still need to see an ambitious GPU roadmap before I'll declare the ship righted. So far they've been really quiet and the release schedule is still over a year behind and is generally very slow - too slow.

[GoldenLag]

1 hour ago, schwellmo92 said:

If that guy wants to upgrade from a 6600K that is a perfectly acceptable reason to upgrade, it is a barely capable processor by today’s standards.

well that is just plain false. its still a very capable CPU........

and yes there are titles where it wont give an amazing experience, but last time i checked those were all ubisoft titles like AC. 

1 hour ago, schwellmo92 said:

Depending on your game, some games you’ll get noticeable frame stuttering in heavy scenes which isn’t acceptable for some of us

i know, though those are in very few games, i can think like 2 from the top of my head. it is still very much a capable CPU.