huawei Huawei phones outside of China to lose Google Play services/Android Updates (Worldwide except China)

[Bouzoo]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Isnt it due to EU laws you should be able to get the playstore seperate from the phone though? Or did i get that memo wrong?

You mean the fee for google suite? Not sure how that would pan out here, if Huawei paid for that for some phones.

[MadDuke]

Google is screwed once the EU gets hold of them.  You are not allowed to do this when you have a 75% market share. Even larger when you count what percentage the iOS users use their apps like Maps, Gmail...  Anyway. I was on the fence what to buy but this definitely made me to choose the P30 Pro.  

[TetraSky]

24 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Since its android, nothing should be stopping you from paying a small fee and getting the playstore.

A small fee?

For us mere mortals, it's literally free to download
https://opengapps.org

Problem with that, is that it isn't as straightforward as downloading it and pressing the install button.

[Taf the Ghost]

I'd really love to know what's going on behind the scenes because Huawei really did something to piss off a lot of people, and not just the American Government. Note the lack of huge complaint from non-Chinese tech companies. Seems like all of the major players know the real details but no one is in a position to talk. My suspicion, at this point, is that Huawei offices were probably used as Chinese Intel fronts in a lot of areas (if you see a Defense Contractor from the USA outside the States, that company probably works as a Front, just as a note), and this is really as much of a counter-intelligence move as a tech one. This isn't just about backdoors.

[MadDuke]

17 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I'd really love to know what's going on behind the scenes because Huawei really did something to piss off a lot of people, and not just the American Government. Note the lack of huge complaint from non-Chinese tech companies. Seems like all of the major players know the real details but no one is in a position to talk. My suspicion, at this point, is that Huawei offices were probably used as Chinese Intel fronts in a lot of areas (if you see a Defense Contractor from the USA outside the States, that company probably works as a Front, just as a note), and this is really as much of a counter-intelligence move as a tech one. This isn't just about backdoors.

 

Conspiracy theories are bullshit. If they had any evidence it would be out already.   

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, MadDuke said:

 

Conspiracy theories are bullshit. If they had any evidence it would be out already.   

Beyond the fact that most of history is dictated by actual conspiracies (and one can always categorize representative governments under that), there is an entire world of secret projects no one ever hears about. Further, in open publications that have to actually deal with governments, they'll avoid actually publishing real information unless it's one faction fighting against another. 

 

What we do know is most of the world views Huawei as a massive security risk and are actually acting like that. The details would be nice, but basic observations says there's a lot more going on than we know right now. We'll probably find out in a decade, but, for now, we don't know.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, MadDuke said:

If they had any evidence it would be out already.   

It's not quite that simple when dealing with national security.

[Delicieuxz]

34 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I'd really love to know what's going on behind the scenes because Huawei really did something to piss off a lot of people, and not just the American Government. Note the lack of huge complaint from non-Chinese tech companies. Seems like all of the major players know the real details but no one is in a position to talk. My suspicion, at this point, is that Huawei offices were probably used as Chinese Intel fronts in a lot of areas (if you see a Defense Contractor from the USA outside the States, that company probably works as a Front, just as a note), and this is really as much of a counter-intelligence move as a tech one. This isn't just about backdoors.

It's just a business and espionage tactic the US government is pulling to try to force the 5G market into the US' hands so that it will profit US companies and so that the US government will have unfettered access to spy on everybody. The EU has found no evidence for the US' allegations against Huawei and have soundly rejected the US' pressure to ban Huawei.

 

Belgian cybersecurity center finds no evidence of Huawei spying threat, despite US claims
EU Commission ignores US calls to ban Huawei in 5G telecom systems blueprint
Germany won’t ban Huawei & ready to oppose US pressure – economy minister
‘Blatant extortion’: German ex-chancellor lashes out at US threat to withhold intel over China
Juncker refuses to reject Huawei 'just because it's Chinese' amid US pressure
Italian PM Conte says Huawei won’t face discrimination in Italy
‘US lagging behind in 5G’: China’s Huawei says Trump’s ban only hurts American consumers
Huawei CEO says 5G tech is like ‘nuclear bomb’ for US, cautions against ‘new Cold War’

 

The tactic the US is doing against Huawei is an old trope that the EU is very familiar with, because the US has done the exact same thing with the Nord Stream 2 LNG pipeline, Russian military hardware purchases, and the Iran nuclear deal. The EU is likewise resisting US pressure on those other things.

 

It's simple extortion for profits, with the additional dimension of the US government wanting to spy on everybody through 5g like it already does through currently-available means.

[Taf the Ghost]

@Delicieuxz

 

I agree to an extent, but they've actually acted like this is a NatSec issue. That's the difference from other issues with US Companies using the US Government to secure deals. There's a difference between when it's a corporate issue and when all of the US factions are in alignment. That's what is noticeable with this one.

 

"You know it's important when everyone acts like it is". We tend to use the inverse to know when it's a shine job, but there are too many factions supporting this while no one is really in opposition, along with the non-American or non-Chinese tech companies griping about it. 

[Arika]

fucking alphabet...

[Delicieuxz]

I wonder how much or little Google's change will have on Huawei. It sounds like it can be worked around by Huawei developing their own update

 

Google suspends some business with Huawei after Trump blacklist

Quote

Huawei will continue to have access to the version of the Android operating system available through the open source license that is freely open to anyone who wishes to use it.

But Google will stop providing any technical support and collaboration for Android and Google services to Huawei going forward, the source said.

 

Huawei does not need US chips: CEO on Trump export ban

Quote

We actually have foreseen this day for many years, and we do have a backup plan.

 

We will not change our management at the request of the U.S. or accept monitoring, as ZTE has done.

 

Those comments were published yesterday. I wonder if they were already aware of the changes with Google at that time.

 

 

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I agree to an extent, but they've actually acted like this is a NatSec issue. That's the difference from other issues with US Companies using the US Government to secure deals.

 

"You know it's important when everyone acts like it is". We tend to use the inverse to know when it's a shine job, but there are too many factions supporting this while no one is really in opposition, along with the non-American or non-Chinese tech companies griping about it.

A NatSec issue is just the guise it's being done under. They couldn't sell it to domestic and international public by simply saying 'waaa, we want all the profits and surveillance capabilities from controlling 5g'.

 

Plus, since the US government considers being able to spy on people a national security tool, they think of lacking ability to spy on people through 5g to be a national security issue. And Trump considers countries other than the US getting profits when the US could potentially get them to be national security issue. I'm sure Trump views EU countries buying liquid nitrogen gas from Russia instead of the US to be a US national security issue.

 

Other tech companies would benefit from Huawei being banned in countries, so they probably aren't too eager to stop it from happening.

[Riaves]

i wonder how china is going to retaliate on this. Apple has a big market share in china and i dont think china will stay quiet. I personally think that america is afraid for a big competitor like Huawei which has grown a lot over the years while iPhone sales have stagnated. I was thinking of getting the OnePlus 7 next month but now im not sure if other chinese brands are safe. hope more news and info follows soon.

[desertcomputer]

59 minutes ago, Riaves said:

i wonder how china is going to retaliate on this. Apple has a big market share in china and i dont think china will stay quiet. I personally think that america is afraid for a big competitor like Huawei which has grown a lot over the years while iPhone sales have stagnated. I was thinking of getting the OnePlus 7 next month but now im not sure if other chinese brands are safe. hope more news and info follows soon.

One plus have unlocked boot loader which doesn't void warranty and step is pretty easy. So you don't have to worry about update as custom roms/kernel down the years is not going be a issue, just have looks at op3/t.

[Ethan.]

3 hours ago, MadDuke said:

Google is screwed once the EU gets hold of them.  You are not allowed to do this when you have a 75% market share. Even larger when you count what percentage the iOS users use their apps like Maps, Gmail...  Anyway. I was on the fence what to buy but this definitely made me to choose the P30 Pro.  

Google hasn't done anything wrong here...The EU aren't going to fine Google over this. They're complying with the regulations of the US, the country they're based in. This isn't Google trying to hurt Huawei.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

<removed>

On-topic : Looks like Huawei will have to push out a major update to move all phones over to AOSP or LineageOS, perhaps with an option to install either Opengapps, f-Droid or their own app store. 

This is still going to really hurt their sales numbers.

Edited May 20, 2019 by SansVarnic

[schwellmo92]

7 hours ago, Sauron said:

I doubt it, when you buy a phone from huawei they are the company responsible for supporting and updating the phone; if they didn't have the foresight to make a contract with google that prevents this from happening (or carries a massive termination penalty) technically it's their fault they couldn't deliver on what they promised

Presidential Executive Order would trump (lol) any contract that you say they are stupid for not having (they probably do have a support contract tbh).

[GoldenLag]

7 hours ago, TetraSky said:

small fee?

I guess that was on the OEM side if things. 

 

7 hours ago, TetraSky said:

For us mere mortals, it's literally free to download
https://opengapps.org

Problem with that, is that it isn't as straightforward as downloading it and pressing the install button

Im guessing youtube guides will get a ton more of them then.

[Quadriplegic]

9 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Not screwed? How did you come up with that idea?

 

So how many P30s, Mate 20s and P20s (not to mention equivalent Honor models) are out there right now? It's at least double digit millions. I don't think it's triple but I honestly don't know how many units they've moved in that segment over the last year. 

 

Anyway, all those customers won't even see a single security patch. You could have bought a brand new P30 Pro a couple of weeks ago and now risk having an insecure device and you certainly won't get an OS update to Q.

 

The choice they have is to ditch their phone and buy a new one. That's a bad choice for most people.

 

Of course this is still at a hypothetical level but it looks like it might become reality.

"But users of existing Huawei devices who have access to the Google Play Store will still be able to download app updates provided by Google. Apps such as Gmail are updated through the store, unlike operating system updates which are typically handled by phone manufacturers and telecoms carriers, which the blacklist could affect, the source said."

[Mihle]

From articles I have looked at, it will not affect already sold phones, just ones sold in the future.

[Nicnac]

NOICE

[LienusLateTips]

Wait - I'm confused. Will my existing P20 be affected by this change?

[suicidalfranco]

19 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Wait - I'm confused. Will my existing P20 be affected by this change?

no

[NeuesTestament]

8 hours ago, MadDuke said:

 

Conspiracy theories are bullshit. If they had any evidence it would be out already.   

Not if that would put the source at risk. And there is always a percentage that doesn’t believe the US no matter what. I don’t think they would have much to gain publishing their Intel. 

[D13H4RD]

45 minutes ago, LienusLateTips said:

Wait - I'm confused. Will my existing P20 be affected by this change?

It won't, at least for now.

 

You'll still get Google Play Services and all the Google stuff. Just that software updates in the future may not come as frequently.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, Quadriplegic said:

"But users of existing Huawei devices who have access to the Google Play Store will still be able to download app updates provided by Google. Apps such as Gmail are updated through the store, unlike operating system updates which are typically handled by phone manufacturers and telecoms carriers, which the blacklist could affect, the source said."

Yes, you don't lose access to Play Services (yet) but you lose any and all OS updates including security updates hence you're screwed. So the next time a major vulnerability rolls around (which could be any minute) there won't be a patch. We've had a few of those within the last year even so it's just a matter of time.

 

Also, Huawei had promised users 2 years of updates which they can't get now so users aren't getting everything they paid for.

 

Basically it's like being on Windows XP (except Android is more secure and has a lot of hardening built-in and with more to come with Q which users will miss out on) and saying it'll be fine because you can still use your programs and update them. It's even uncertain whether Huawei phones will get Play Services updates. If that's the case your phone will be even more vulnerable.