LTT Should expand into development

[AiSW]

Hi,

I am a programmer, as a hobby I develop games and 3d model, this prefaces a sort of list of arguments why I think it seems wise for them to expand in the market.

• They have numerous PC industry contacts, they can work with Valve and get unreleased Vive products, or get GPUs that have features not released yet to support them early, ect.  This is something a new developer does not have, and is extremely beneficial.
• They have a fan base of PC gamers, plenty of whom I guarantee would be significantly more likely to buy a title from LTT than from a random AA dev.
• They have the capital, yes this is true for almost any business, but still important to note.
• They don't seem to have game companies as sponsors so they wouldn't be competing.
• They have plenty of hardware they can test with(this may seem insignificant) but it again can be beneficial.
• They have at least foundation staff, they already HR/Finance and what could be argued is basically a massive marketing department as well as IT.  
• This is a big one as well, they have the foundation for game server hosting(were it to be online) with all the web hosting stuff they have, if it were to be online that is.
• Expanding is also just generally useful to a business.

If you agree/disagree I'd love to hear it.  And I'd be interested to see what they would make.  Btw I take royalties, jk

[Guest]

They are a media company, so not in the foreseeable future 

[LogicalDrm]

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

Hi,

I am a programmer, as a hobby I develop games and 3d model, this prefaces a sort of list of arguments why I think it seems wise for them to expand in the market.

 

Aka you are trying to get them recruit you.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They have numerous PC industry contacts, they can work with Valve and get unreleased Vive products, or get GPUs that have features not released yet to support them early, ect.  This is something a new developer does not have, and is extremely beneficial.

 

Have you watched their videos? Linus is not in position where core hardware manufacturers would send him stuff. Not now, and probably not in future. The way hardware support in games works is that Nvidia/AMD/Intel pays devs to get their hardware better optimized. If Linus follows his 50/50 idealogy on being equal to all, they would need to refuse any such deal. Same with focusing developing to HTC or Valve products.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They have a fan base of PC gamers, plenty of whom I guarantee would be significantly more likely to buy a title from LTT than from a random AA dev.

 

Fans sure. But any actual gamer will first want to test game and ask question "Is it worth it?". Considering how long they have taken to release FP, starting game/software development now would probably take 5+ years.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They have the capital, yes this is true for almost any business, but still important to note.

 

They don't if I'm understanding it correctly. They have enough to keep production running, hire new staff and do other investments that would improve them in their business model. Getting into whole new business area needs much more. Like FP is losing money, and will continue until they can get much more creators and users on platform. Its not worth starting anything if they don't have idea on what they could do.

 

I would understand if they move FP development into selling video encoding techniques outside (licensing rather) as they have done those in-house. Making them only people who use that.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They don't seem to have game companies as sponsors so they wouldn't be competing.

 

Odd way to express that. They are competing regardless. And having a sponsor and moving into same territory is kinda normal. Like FP is kinda same with what Vessel was, and YT might see it as competition to their paid services.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They have plenty of hardware they can test with(this may seem insignificant) but it again can be beneficial.

 

Probably only realistic thing there.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• They have at least foundation staff, they already HR/Finance and what could be argued is basically a massive marketing department as well as IT.  

 

4 people is "massive"? Really?

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• This is a big one as well, they have the foundation for game server hosting(were it to be online) with all the web hosting stuff they have, if it were to be online that is.

 

Uhm, no. The server cabinet in office is just for office and media creation. Vault, backups, UPS's, networking, security etc. All just for what they need at office. FP is hosted outside office, same with forums. So they don't have infrastructure (and building it just for FP has been long and expensive process), and they still lack people who would have deeper understanding on that too.

 

9 hours ago, AiSW said:

• Expanding is also just generally useful to a business.

 

Yeah, which they are already doing constantly. But they are media company first, with FP being streaming/hosting service. If there's some other expanding that on media side of things, it will be done with FP. So web development, video encoding/streaming/hosting etc. I don't see game development being a thing anytime soon. If ever.

[Arika]

no they shouldn't

 

1. irrelevant and unlikely to be treated any differently

2. "plenty" is a bit of a stretch, i would hope no one would buy something just because it was made by LMG (same can be said of any company)

3. given they are a private company, there is no why for you to know that

4. not an indication of anything

5. they have it anyway, using it as a reason to start a studio would be irresponsible since hardware is such a tiny part of development

6. so? do you have any idea how many people it takes to develop a game? since you're saying they would compete with AA-studios, lets go through some people know

• Kojima Productions - 100 staff
• Respart Entertainment - 315 staff
• Firaxis Games - 180 staff

 So let's say they start with 30 staff. that's 30 people's salaries that they have to sink costs into for development to start the game and will get 0 return until the first game is released. even 10 staff would likely start the strain them.

7. no they actually dont

8. "expanding" into game development would be a terrible idea, there are plenty of other safer options to go before they would land at game development for example Publishing kind of like what Rooster Teeth Games did with Bendy and the Ink Machine, but even that would still have with an inherent risk.

[AiSW]

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

1. irrelevant and unlikely to be treated any differently

You'd be surprised

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

2. "plenty" is a bit of a stretch, i would hope no one would buy something just because it was made by LMG (same can be said of any company)

Again you'd be surprised

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

3. given they are a private company, there is no why for you to know that

They seem to not be going broke like many small businesses are

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

4. not an indication of anything

Just citing it would not effect their sponsors

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

5. they have it anyway, using it as a reason to start a studio would be irresponsible since hardware is such a tiny part of development

I agree, which is the reason why I didn't use it as the only reason

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

6. so? do you have any idea how many people it takes to develop a game? since you're saying they would compete with AA-studios, lets go through some people know

• Kojima Productions - 100 staff
• Respart Entertainment - 315 staff
• Firaxis Games - 180 staff

None of those studios are AA and they all work with large publishers...  Take a look at Stress Level Zero, 15 people make some of the best VR games on the market as well as use it to make content for their Youtube channel 

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

7. no they actually dont

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

8. "expanding" into game development would be a terrible idea, there are plenty of other safer options to go before they would land at game development for example Publishing kind of like what Rooster Teeth Games did with Bendy and the Ink Machine, but even that would still have with an inherent risk.

Again, it did pretty well for Node

 

[AiSW]

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

Aka you are trying to get them recruit you.

Or just citing I know the industry, I have no need for a job

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Have you watched their videos? Linus is not in position where core hardware manufacturers would send him stuff. Not now, and probably not in future. The way hardware support in games works is that Nvidia/AMD/Intel pays devs to get their hardware better optimized. If Linus follows his 50/50 idealogy on being equal to all, they would need to refuse any such deal. Same with focusing developing to HTC or Valve products.

That is just not true, for example known VR development companies get sent hardware all the time because the companies want their hardware supported.  Again, they would be more likely to get this than a random guy of the street.

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Fans sure. But any actual gamer will first want to test game and ask question "Is it worth it?". Considering how long they have taken to release FP, starting game/software development now would probably take 5+ years.

Making a high-volume website is a whole lot different from making a game.  When making a website you need to make the infrastructure, working with a pre-made engine on a game you don't.  Hence why AA developers can make quality games with less staff than AAA, because they use things like UE4 instead of making their own engine.

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

They don't if I'm understanding it correctly. They have enough to keep production running, hire new staff and do other investments that would improve them in their business model. Getting into whole new business area needs much more. Like FP is losing money, and will continue until they can get much more creators and users on platform. Its not worth starting anything if they don't have idea on what they could do.

They seem to not be losing money, like many small businesses 

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

I would understand if they move FP development into selling video encoding techniques outside (licensing rather) as they have done those in-house. Making them only people who use that.

I'd be surprised if they didn't use something like libvpx

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Odd way to express that. They are competing regardless. And having a sponsor and moving into same territory is kinda normal. Like FP is kinda same with what Vessel was, and YT might see it as competition to their paid services.

I don't really know what you mean by this

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Probably only realistic thing there.

If you say so

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

4 people is "massive"? Really?

That completely went over your head

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Uhm, no. The server cabinet in office is just for office and media creation. Vault, backups, UPS's, networking, security etc. All just for what they need at office. FP is hosted outside office, same with forums. So they don't have infrastructure (and building it just for FP has been long and expensive process), and they still lack people who would have deeper understanding on that too.

10 Gigabit in the west is significantly better than plenty of smaller games that have a random server in Taiwan or Kansas that run on 100 megabit

7 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

 

 

Yeah, which they are already doing constantly. But they are media company first, with FP being streaming/hosting service. If there's some other expanding that on media side of things, it will be done with FP. So web development, video encoding/streaming/hosting etc. I don't see game development being a thing anytime soon. If ever.

 

[AiSW]

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

easier said than done ._. especially with the competitive secrecy with hardware development

Valve seems more than willing to send devs hardware

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

if the game pitch (in form of a trailer or something) isn't appealing I won't be buying it. the brand does not make the game good.

My point with that was you'd be more likely to look at it, which can you honestly say that isn't true

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

citation needed? that sounds like something only shareholders would be privy to (in terms of people outside of LMG)

Already addressed my reasoning for that twice

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

Wargaming has bought a few ad spots before, so if they had a division for game dev I doubt LTT would take games for ad spots going forward

Didn't notice that, I guess there would be a single sponsor potentially lost

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

fair, although consider they also use said hardware for LTT videos like reviews and builds and experiments, so actual time with the hardware for one purpose would be limited within the company

They have plenty of hardware that would be usable, just look at their LAN center even

11 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

floatplane's servers isn't local if I remember right. they rent a computing service for that. a few games probably use AWS and whatnot, but they would need more people to handle game server stuff (they can't just borrow a few hands from floatplane media to do this, they've got their own company to run.)

I was talking about their 10 gigabit...

 

[soldier_ph]

*inhales* No.

 

I mean, they have Floatplane, or as I like to call it: Flappyplane, and that's their project as far as Coding goes.

 

#Dealwithit

[harryk]

I don't think LMG is in a position to start game development, nor do I think they want to. 

- They have plenty to do already.

- They've already got a venture project. Its called Floatplane and its not exactly taken off yet.

- Its an entirely different market/industry with HUGE risks, not exactly something LMG, which is still a relatively small and young company, needs more of.

- I see no indications they have the capital needed to make a game properly. They could maybe afford to hire one full time person to work on it, which is hardly a development team, and would take money away from projects they already have planned.

- Their server closet is not in anyway suited for hosting, even if it has 10GE. It'd be cheaper and better to just rent servers somewhere like everybody else.

- Even if their fanbase and foundation was built around gaming, Linus' interests seem to be more about hardware, and lately he's been into professional non-gaming stuff or just plan weird unusual things. They've never really been about games, only peripheral to them. I don't recall them ever making a game review.

[Mira Yurizaki]

The LTT channel is run by Linus Media Group. I think game development, especially as advanced as you're suggesting, isn't something they're interested in. You may as well ask Gamer's Nexus or hell, AnandTech to do the same thing.

[Arika]

39 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

You may as well ask Gamer's Nexus or hell, AnandTech to do the same thing.

since LMG had access to all these GPUs maybe they should just become an IAB partner since they know about hardware..../s

[LogicalDrm]

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

That is just not true, for example known VR development companies get sent hardware all the time because the companies want their hardware supported.  Again, they would be more likely to get this than a random guy of the street.

 

VR companies maybe. But Nvidia, AMD or Intel? Nope. And with VR its still more about getting compatibility/optimization so that game can be used to sell hardware. Would LMG be more likely to get that kind of support than complete newcomer? Maybe. But then we fall back into morality of Linus. Does he want to verify being shill for a VR company over others because they get hardware for testing purposes?

 

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

Making a high-volume website is a whole lot different from making a game.  When making a website you need to make the infrastructure, working with a pre-made engine on a game you don't.  Hence why AA developers can make quality games with less staff than AAA, because they use things like UE4 instead of making their own engine.

 

Engines cost money. And I still don't see them being able to make a game in under 5 years even if they get almost all assets. Besides that, those games are kinda shitty imo. Games which are good usually have some good original ideas. LTT content hasn't have much of that recently. They would need to first hire good screenwriter and concept artist.

 

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

They seem to not be losing money, like many small businesses

 

Based on what? If you watch WAN Show, they talked about these things just in recent few (not this week, but week before for sure). FP is still losing money. Forum is losing money. Pretty much every bigger thing they do is about breaking even. Only their core operations are profitable. And those don't generate revenue fast enough to be able to support full development team that could be losing money for next 3+ years.

 

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

I'd be surprised if they didn't use something like libvpx

 

I don't know, those things fall into trade secret department. I've only watched WAN and Luke has been talking about them coding new transcoding stuff for FP. Which is apparently rolled out now.

 

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

I don't really know what you mean by this

 

"They don't have game devs/publishers as sponsors, so they don't have competition". Thats what I read from your post. Thats just odd way of saying it. They will have competition regardless. Competition overall is good anyway, which is why hardware companies don't aggressively trash each other. Not as long as there's now clear stealing of ideas/assets (Thermaltake vs CaseLabs few years ago).

 

In games its even harder as when someone makes good game, everyone is copying it. Flappy Bird, Clash of Clans, DotA, what-ever-was-base-for-Heathstone, zombie games based on CoD mods, battlearena's based on zombie-survival games etc. etc.

 

17 hours ago, AiSW said:

10 Gigabit in the west is significantly better than plenty of smaller games that have a random server in Taiwan or Kansas that run on 100 megabit

 

This part is still bit mystery. You are suggesting they would be running master server or actual game servers from office? Just for security part of it makes that bad idea. And if its matchmaking style multiplayer, then having single server is even worse idea. You want to have multiple servers to make them less stressed and keep pings smaller.

 

Plus, if LMG would make a game, then I hope they wouldn't do anything that current major devs are doing with MP games. So no accounts (they could do optional accounts), dedicated servers and release files for those, actual demo version.

[AiSW]

On 5/19/2019 at 6:52 AM, LogicalDrm said:

Engines cost money. And I still don't see them being able to make a game in under 5 years even if they get almost all assets. Besides that, those games are kinda shitty imo. Games which are good usually have some good original ideas. LTT content hasn't have much of that recently. They would need to first hire good screenwriter and concept artist.

Not really, look at for example EU4 pricing which only takes 5% royalty upfront, or even just look at Godot which is completely free and fully featured