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NyetARussianSpy

What do you think of Teslas?

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I think what Tesla's done for the industry as a whole is absolutely remarkable, because everyone else in the business seemingly had no interest in producing a reasonable EV prior to the release of their Model S.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I'm quite skeptical still.

 

Their cars have lots of quality issues and their entire success is mostly based around having been the first. Now that other more established manufacturers are (slowly) catching up, I'm not really convinced their cars are going to be as successful in the long run. Established brands have better dealership networks, better production standards, more brand recognition and heritage, they're just more ready for prime time.

 

And, personally, if I had the choice between a Tesla Model S and an equivalent car from a more established brand like Mercedes, Audi, BMW or Porsche, then I'd always go for the latter.

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41 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

They're 'okay' but the infrastructure for electric cars at least in the UK is awful, as show in this video...

 

 

Yeah the charging infrastructure in the UK is very patchy. If you live outside a large city in the UK you'd have to check very carefully what charging points you had in your area before buying an EV.

Just now, tiggerlator said:

Eventually oil will run out, what then for classics etc, also eventually ic engines will be banned of just phase out as cleaner means of transport become more prevalent. My response to anyone with a ic engined classic etc in that case is tough. It's time we did something about the pollution from ic vehicles, especially America with their ludicrous and unnecessary 5litre engined cars.

Well synthetic hydrocarbon fuel production is tantalizing close https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47638586   using CO2 sucked out the atmosphere, and it will be sulphur free too. Which is just as well as even if cars go electric, aviation and shipping won't be any time soon.

 

Also 5 litre engines are very necessary, even more so when they are truly ludicrous 😁  And even if you were to work on the premise of 5.0 litre (and larger) engines being a bad thing, coming from the UK it is rather hypocritical to just blame America for them since we produce 5.0 litre Range Rovers, 6.0 Aston Martins, 6.7 Rolls Royces and 6.8 Bentleys. The 4.0 litre Mclarens aren't models of fuel efficiency either. From a local pollution point of view, i.e. particulates, the big petrol engines are much better than all the diesels tend to drive in Europe.     

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1 minute ago, Monkey Dust said:

Also 5 litre engines are very necessary, even more so when they are truly ludicrous 😁  And even if you were to work on the premise of 5.0 litre (and larger) engines being a bad thing, coming from the UK it is rather hypocritical to just blame America for them since we produce 5.0 litre Range Rovers, 6.0 Aston Martins, 6.7 Rolls Royces and 6.8 Bentleys. The 4.0 litre Mclarens aren't models of fuel efficiency either. From a local pollution point of view, i.e. particulates, the big petrol engines are much better than all the diesels tend to drive in Europe.     

We get actual horsepower from them and fuel consumption not much worse than a 20 year old estate. My brothers 4.0 Jeep got thrashed by a 1.6 Diesel civic. Said jeep is only 50 BHP up on my 1.6 twinspark that's from the same era.

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15 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

So much for America not being a nation of lawsuit happy inbreds....

Those happy inbreds are the ones building the cars in the title.

 

I am also of English peasant stock so inbred is sort of accurate. 


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2 minutes ago, jones177 said:

Those happy inbreds are the ones building the cars in the title.

 

I am also of English peasant stock so inbred is sort of accurate. 

That's the first time anyone has actually worked out what I mean. I salute you, happy partial inbred English peasant!

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I hate Musk but I would like to have a Tesla as my next car. I like self-driving cars because I got my license 14 years ago but barely drive 3 days a year now. This will however change and I prefer to let the car drive me.

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18 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

I don't really like what they've become. A status symbol of superior douchebaggery. I also don't think full electric is the future of automotive, rather, hydrogen electric. Much cheaper to make, easier to make, not a finite resource, lot less harmful to the environment during and after creation. You don't wait many hours for a recharge, rather, drive up to a fueling station, shove a nozzle into the filler port, and you're off in five minutes tops. They get better range than most electric cars as well. 

 

But since we're in the present, my opinion on Elons's fancy cars is simply this: good way to move forward, now let's keep going.

Hydrogen, in many many years, might well be a viable solution, but as of current tech, it's not even a fair comparison.

 

For starters: Hydrogen gas does not exist naturally on earth. That means we have to manufacture it.

 

There are two primary methods of manufacturing hydrogen gas:

1. Steam reforming, using natural gas or other similar fossil fuels (bad for the environment, and requires fossil fuels as the original source of the fuel)

2. Electrolysis - using electricity to split Hydrogen gas out of water - this is better, but requires an incredible amount of electricity

 

Option #2, particularly, essentially defeats the purpose of Hydrogen fuel. Why would you spend the electricity to create hydrogen, to then burn and create power (whether mechanical power or electrical power) - when instead, you can simply use that exact same electricity to power an EV directly? It's far more efficient use of the same amount of electricity.

 

Now, does that mean Hydrogen fuel for vehicles is doomed? No. I actually think that they will co-exist, with the vast majority of consumer vehicles being EV, and then vehicles that cannot have quick and easy access to charging infrastructure (Such as those who have street parking, or remote locations) will start using Hydrogen, because it can be transported and stored. But, given equal access to both, there's really no reason to choose a hydrogen vehicle. The tech is simply less efficient. For now, anyway.

 

In terms of charging times? Well, Tesla can already supercharge a battery in like 20 minutes to 80%. And most people who own an EV will get a charger at home. Condo's aren't really a problem, assuming you get your own parking space. Granted, government regulation might be required to force Condo corporations to allow people to install their own chargers.

 

As I said above, people who need street parking might be the ones who have the most difficulty with EV's. But, they could in theory still go to a "charging station", such as a Tesla Supercharger, or a standard Level 3 charging station.

 

These are solvable problems.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
59 minutes ago, jones177 said:

Those happy inbreds are the ones building the cars in the title. 

 

I am also of English peasant stock so inbred is sort of accurate.  

Well.. America gives us Alabama, they won't mind too much with inbreeding

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Posted · Original PosterOP
40 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

This will however change and I prefer to let the car drive me

Depends where you live though, live in Pothole City, not going to work so well. Live in Sunny California? Drive on!

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4 minutes ago, NyetARussianSpy said:

Depends where you live though, live in Pothole City, not going to work so well. Live in Sunny California? Drive on!

Germany

Tesla has a few years to fix its self-driving. Don´t need a car before 2022

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From the progress being made in recent years, fusion power in the near future is almost guarenteed. We need the vehicle, battery and charging technology and infrastructure in place before ITER or the Chinese start using fusion to pump into the grid. At worst an electric car requires the burning of a similar amount of fossil fuel to what a modern diesel does. Compared to most petrol engines, electric cars require less energy to be relased from fossil fuel and can get back a large amount of the energy used to accelerate to speed. An electric motor should never wear out either apart from bearings, require no oil to lubricate them and have less interant losses.

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14 minutes ago, NyetARussianSpy said:

Sweet

Not if you are a conservative. I have never been to California but I assume Germany is at least as left-wing if not more from what I have read/watched.

I plan to leave the country asap after university. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Teddy07 said:

Not if you are a conservative. I plan to leave the country asap after university.  

Best of luck! Hope you find a nice place to stay

 

13 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

An electric motor should never wear out either apart from bearings, require no oil to lubricate them and have less interant losses. 

Each new design brings new problems, there will be no oil issues, now there will be electrical ones

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4 hours ago, tiggerlator said:

Eventually oil will run out, what then for classics etc, also eventually ic engines will be banned of just phase out as cleaner means of transport become more prevalent. My response to anyone with a ic engined classic etc in that case is tough. It's time we did something about the pollution from ic vehicles, especially America with their ludicrous and unnecessary 5litre engined cars.

We'll find a way. Do you really want to destroy a tangible piece of history because "ohh, the environment!". No, it's stupid. Why is it stupid? Do I hate he environment? No. The reason it's dumb is those of us with antique and classic vehicles (at least in the US) are not legally allowed to drive them so many miles per year, drastically reducing pollution they'd otherwise cause. Plus, most of us normally transport them in/on trailers so they don't get driven near as much as one would think. At shows and events we might let them purr for awhile and drive them around the town to check it out. But otherwise, they sit with their hoods open in a field or lot for the younger generations to see first hand what their ancestors crafted and used.

 

You think America is the only country with a 5.0L engine? Australia, Great Britain, China, Czech (whatever they call themselves now), France, Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Sweden, Mother Russia, and Spain all make cars with a 5.0L V8 engine. So don't go pointing the finger solely at America here.

 

Also, most car companies (that don't make super and sports cars) have been phasing out the v8 for a long time now. Most cars don't even have a v8 option anymore. They're turbo charged v6's usually.

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Hydrogen, in many many years, might well be a viable solution, but as of current tech, it's not even a fair comparison.

 

For starters: Hydrogen gas does not exist naturally on earth. That means we have to manufacture it.

 

There are two primary methods of manufacturing hydrogen gas:

1. Steam reforming, using natural gas or other similar fossil fuels (bad for the environment, and requires fossil fuels as the original source of the fuel)

2. Electrolysis - using electricity to split Hydrogen gas out of water - this is better, but requires an incredible amount of electricity

 

Option #2, particularly, essentially defeats the purpose of Hydrogen fuel. Why would you spend the electricity to create hydrogen, to then burn and create power (whether mechanical power or electrical power) - when instead, you can simply use that exact same electricity to power an EV directly? It's far more efficient use of the same amount of electricity.

 

Now, does that mean Hydrogen fuel for vehicles is doomed? No. I actually think that they will co-exist, with the vast majority of consumer vehicles being EV, and then vehicles that cannot have quick and easy access to charging infrastructure (Such as those who have street parking, or remote locations) will start using Hydrogen, because it can be transported and stored. But, given equal access to both, there's really no reason to choose a hydrogen vehicle. The tech is simply less efficient. For now, anyway.

 

In terms of charging times? Well, Tesla can already supercharge a battery in like 20 minutes to 80%. And most people who own an EV will get a charger at home. Condo's aren't really a problem, assuming you get your own parking space. Granted, government regulation might be required to force Condo corporations to allow people to install their own chargers.

 

As I said above, people who need street parking might be the ones who have the most difficulty with EV's. But, they could in theory still go to a "charging station", such as a Tesla Supercharger, or a standard Level 3 charging station.

 

These are solvable problems.

The massive benefit over EV's is road trips (among other things like utility work). I'm not waiting 20 fucking minutes to go another 180 miles. It's a huge waste. EV's are better suited as an everyday driver/city car. Powering an EV directly does seem about the same, but personally I don't see the benefit if you'll be waiting around longer to get the same amount of "fuel". I guess for someone like me, who drives a lot more than most, an EV just seems like a worthless investment, especially since I live in the stix.

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Cars are good, charging infrastructure is shit. Only Tesla charger in my country is like 30km away. Service center isn't even in my country, I'd have to go to Austria to service it. That's a huge no go and one of reasons why I'm looking at Hyundai Ioniq or Nissan Leaf more...

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58 minutes ago, NyetARussianSpy said:

Well.. America gives us Alabama, they won't mind too much with inbreeding

Local Alabama resident, the home of inbreeding in the States is California, thank you very much.


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23 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Local Alabama resident, the home of inbreeding in the States is California, thank you very much.

While I don't doubt that, it's also very common amongst Amish and PA Dutch/German (at least it used to be). I may or may not be a result of such 🙃

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Local Alabama resident, the home of inbreeding in the States is California, thank you very much.

Will keep in mind on my next visit

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4 hours ago, tiggerlator said:

Eventually oil will run out, what then for classics etc, also eventually ic engines will be banned of just phase out as cleaner means of transport become more prevalent. My response to anyone with a ic engined classic etc in that case is tough. It's time we did something about the pollution from ic vehicles, especially America with their ludicrous and unnecessary 5litre engined cars.

the most common average engine size for cars in the US is 2.3liter, fyi. And I've never seen a 5liter car in the US. 


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Just now, SansVarnic said:

the most common engine size for cars in the US is 2.3liter, fyi. And I've never seen a 5liter car in the US. 

They must only show them on TV then, i see them all the time on American programs. 

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2 minutes ago, tiggerlator said:

They must only show them on TV then, i see them all the time on American programs. 

Thats because its tv.


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6 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Thats because its tv.

Well most of the programs i see here, they drive big mahoosive 4x4, or show off stupid custom cars with,insane engines in them. I guess now the intelligent well of middle class will drive, bmw/mercedes. At least the engine sizes are getting more sensible. I understand the distances are much bigger compared to the UK

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38 minutes ago, tiggerlator said:

Well most of the programs i see here, they drive big mahoosive 4x4, or show off stupid custom cars with,insane engines in them. I guess now the intelligent well of middle class will drive, bmw/mercedes. At least the engine sizes are getting more sensible. I understand the distances are much bigger compared to the UK

TV is all about the bigger/better mentality. Most definitely doesn't reflect reality.

Most middle class drives a small to medium size car with an i4 or small v6 at about 1.3-3.6 ltre engine depending on the use and family size.

I drive a Chrysler Town and Country van with a 4.0ltre engine but I have 5 children so the need is necessary.

I live in the State of Iowa were it takes 4.5 hours to drive from one end to the other, Iowa is slightly smaller than Germany.

A V6 will commonly get better mileage over an i4 in some cases.

 

 

ok well we better end this as we are derailing the thread. lol.


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Just now, tiggerlator said:

Well most of the programs i see here, they drive big mahoosive 4x4, or show off stupid custom cars with,insane engines in them. I guess now the intelligent well of middle class will drive, bmw/mercedes. At least the engine sizes are getting more sensible. I understand the distances are much bigger compared to the UK

The downsizing trend of small engine + turbo produces better result under testing conditions, but real world use they use just as much fuel as their larger naturally aspirated predecessors. If you genuinely want to reduce fuel consumption, and therefore pollution, reduce weight, or add lightness as Colin Chapman said.    

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