Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Video Beagle

When does "Click Bait" become libel?

Recommended Posts

Posted · Original PosterOP

What, was LMG sad they were the only ones not in a legal dispute with Apple?

LMG, a pretty major tech influencer, publishes a video titled "More viruses on iPhone"....and then don't even use the word "virus" in your video to justify your joke/inference that 3rd party app stores would open the door for them.

 

It'll be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

What, was LMG sad they were the only ones not in a legal dispute with Apple?

LMG, a pretty major tech influencer, publishes a video titled "More viruses on iPhone"....and then don't even use the word "virus" in your video to justify your joke/inference that 3rd party app stores would open the door for them.

 

It'll be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

Im confused I agree with all your saying lol


Asus Sabertooth x79 / 4930k @ 4505 @ 1.408v / Gigabyte WF 2080 RTX / Corsair VG 64GB @ 1911 @ 9CL & AX1600i & H115i Pro @ 2x Noctua NF-A14 / Carbide 330r Blackout

AOC 40" 4k Curved / Samsung 40" 4k TV 120 MR / LaCie Porsche Design 2TB & 500GB / Samsung 950 Pro 500GB / 850 Pro 500GB / Crucial m4 500GB / Asus m.2 Card

Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface / KRK Rokits 10" / Sennheiser HD 650 & HD 4.50BT SE / Logitech G910 & G700s & C920 / SL 88 Grand / Cakewalk / NF-A14 Intake / NF-P12 Exhaust

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Turtle Rig said:

Im confused I agree with all your saying lol

Then I've done my job :D


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah... there was a distinct lack of info there. I was wondering if they meant the anti-trust case would allow for side-loading or less oversight, which means potentially more viruses. That's a stretch though. Maybe they just forgot lol.


Build Logs: Cotton Candy Threads | ZEN CLARITY + | Just NCASE mITX | Noc Noc | NUC | Storage Log

 

Cotton Candy Threads - CPU AMD Threadripper 2950X | GPU EVGA FTW3 RTX 2080 Ti | MOBO Asus ROG Zenith Extreme | MEMORY 128GB (8x 16GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200 | STORAGE 3x Samsung 960 Evo SSD + 4x Crucial P1 1TB + 2x Seagate Ironwolf 8TB 7.2k HDDs | PSU Corsair HX1200i w/ Cablemod Pro Extensions | COOLING Cooler Master TR4 ML360 | CASE Lian Li O11 Dynamic Black | LIGHTING 2x Corsair HD120 Fans, 4x Corsair Addressable RGB Strips, 2x Corsair Commander Pro | PCPP
 
ZEN CLARITY + - CPU AMD Ryzen 2700X | GPU Radeon VII | MOBO Crosshair VII Hero | MEMORY 32GB (4x 8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro @ 3200 | STORAGE Samsung 960 Pro SSD + 2x SanDisk Ultra II SSDs | PSU Corsair RM1000i | COOLING Corsair H150i Pro | CASE Crystal 570X | LIGHTING 6x Corsair SP120 Fans, Cablemod Addressable RGB Strip, Corsair Commander Pro | PCPP
 
Just NCASE mITX - CPU Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.2GHz | GPU EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | MOBO Asus Z370-I Gaming | MEMORY 16GB (2x 8GB) G.Skill Triden-Z RGB 3000 | STORAGE Samsung 960 Evo 500GB SSD + Corsair MX500 1TB M.2 SSD | PSU Corsair SF600 | COOLING Noctua NH-U9S w/ Redux Push/Pull Fans | CASE NCase M1v5 | LIGHTING 2x Cablemod Addressable RGB Strips | PCPP
 
Noc Noc, Who's There? - CPU AMD Threadripper 1950X | GPU ASUS RTX 2080 Ti OC | MOBO ASRock X399M Taichi | MEMORY 32GB (4x 8GB) GSkill Trident-Z 3200 | STORAGE Samsung 970 Evo SSD | PSU Corsair HX1000i w/ Cablemod Pro B&W Kit | COOLING Noctua U9 TR4 w/ 2x Redux 92mm | CASE Corsair 280X White | FANS 6x Noctua 140mm Redux | PCPP
Link to post
Share on other sites

"When does clickbait become libel",  generally when a commercial loss or damage can be established.    Like defamation, Libel requires that the defendant knew their actions would cause harm and can have damages associated with them.

 

In this case LTT can argue that if the case succeeds you will get more viruses, thus the title from this very defensible position is actually in support of apples current practices and thus cannot be deemed to have either caused or be known to cause damages.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
20 minutes ago, mr moose said:

In this case LTT can argue that if the case succeeds you will get more viruses, thus the title from this very defensible position is actually in support of apples current practices and thus cannot be deemed to have either caused or be known to cause damages.

It's not a bad theory, except, they at no point say that in the video. I said that in my OP.  @Den-Fi.com speculated that's what it meant. You inferred it..But Apple could point to the comments on Youtube who aren't even watching the video just laughing about "iphone's having viriuses despite what Apple says".

I'm also not sure "lack of intent" would fly, given LMG's stature as a major tech "influencer".

 

I'm all just speculating, mind you...free floating brain ideas...triggering on some long ago memories of law classes from a very rusty journalism degree :)


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

It's not a bad theory, except, they at no point say that in the video. I said that in my OP.  @Den-Fi.com speculated that's what it meant. You inferred it..But Apple could point to the comments on Youtube who aren't even watching the video just laughing about "iphone's having viriuses despite what Apple says".

I'm also not sure "lack of intent" would fly, given LMG's stature as a major tech "influencer".

That's not how libel or defamation cases work though.  You have to prove intent,  given we can easily show the intent was not malicious and it's a valid opinion that can't be linked to damages, Unless you can prove it was LTT intent to cause damage.

 

Quote

There are several things a person must prove to establish that libel has taken place. In the United States, a person must prove that the statement was false, caused harm, and was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. For a celebrity or public official, a person must prove the first three steps, and that the statement was made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth,[15] which is usually specifically referred to as "actual malice".[16]

I draw your attention to the forth requirement as LTT is a celebrity.

 

4 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

I'm all just speculating, mind you...free floating brain ideas...triggering on some long ago memories of law classes from a very rusty journalism degree :)

 

It's cool,  this is a thing I enjoy researching and discussing.

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I draw your attention to the forth requirement as LTT is a celebrity.

In this case, the important celebrity status would be Apple's, and this is the clause that could cause LMG, as a journalistic entity that makes what they say more important than what you or I say,  problems "and that the statement was made...with reckless disregard for the truth,"

 

(this part I remember)... like, if Linus were to say lies about me on a video, I would have an easier time of establishing libel, because as a non-celebrity, the first part is enough. But if I was to say lies about Linus, then he'd have the greater burden. (I remember it being for a regular person, it being untrue is enough, while for a public figure, it's actually harming the reputation...like saying Linus wears a wig wouldn't be enough, unless his reputation was tied into having natural hair, for a silly example)....but like I said, it's been a LOONGG time since I studied this stuff :)


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites

still think that headlines, drawing in audience as click bait, should have some sort of repercussion. 

 

I do know that as a reader or viewer, i tend to stop pressing these "extreme" headlines, because i ALWAYS end up feeling i have lost my time, on something not valuable to me as a customer.

 

But the issue is that, just browsing headlines today, as a normal consumer, not deepdiving, many titles are defamation.. in our cheaper online news i Denmark, 90% of the titles, are things that seems to be .. extreme, and end up being nothing, but often with "people" tied into the headline, they should be able to sue.

 

fun small thing, is Pauls Hardwares "fun" video on Gamers Nexus modmad.. just reading the title, it seems to be that there is an issue with the product. and if you did not see the video, or knew the friendship between these youtubers, you might abstain from buying that product.

 

Clickbait, is an ugly trend, and will end up killing all value in newz, simply because it degrades trust.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

In this case, the important celebrity status would be Apple's,

And thus you have to prove Linus's intent was to harm apple.  Given the way it reads it can be argued in any direction you cannot prove intent.

 

2 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

and this is the clause that could cause LMG, as a journalistic entity that makes what they say more important than what you or I say,  problems "and that the statement was made...with reckless disregard for the truth,"

 

(this part I remember)... like, if Linus were to say lies about me on a video, I would have an easier time of establishing libel, because as a non-celebrity, the first part is enough. But if I was to say lies about Linus, then he'd have the greater burden. (I remember it being for a regular person, it being untrue is enough, while for a public figure, it's actually harming the reputation...like saying Linus wears a wig wouldn't be enough, unless his reputation was tied into having natural hair, for a silly example)....but like I said, it's been a LOONGG time since I studied this stuff :)

 

It's not actually easy to win a libel case.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this sadly just comes down to a joint effect of apple itself and the general market consensus umbrella-ing the term virus into any exploit. Like anyone who can make a .bat file in 1999 was a hacker...

Apple has "dummed down" the consumer intelligence of modern terms by just "streamlining" the os to a point a toddler cant mess it up. So in effect if they want to go after LTT for libel they have alot of ground themselves to cover on re-educating the market they prey on to the reality of what they say vs actual reality.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Click bait is inherently the exact opposite of anything said in use of slander against someone or something.

If LMG was to post a title in a manner that wold indicate direct attack then yes it could be taken in the at way, but on a legal side (dont quote me) libel has been used in click-bait, news-casts, newspaper articles (onion, verge, wc...) with no little to no repercussion so I have little to no confidence Apple would go after LMG for this this one realistically.

 

Quote

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.Compare with slander.

Apple would have to show some hard evidence that the comment/title had a real, direct effect on the companies status and or sales/profit to show that slander or defamation occurred. Nearly impossible to show or link.


Tech News Posting Guidelines - READ BEFORE POSTING | Community Standards | Forum Staff

LTT Folding Users Tips, Tricks and FAQ | F@H Contribution | My Rig | Project Steamroller

 

Spoiler

 †  

 

Character is like a Tree and Reputation like its Shadow. The Shadow is what we think of it; The Tree is the Real thing.  ~ Abraham Lincoln

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~ Winston Churchill

Docendo discimus - "the best way to learn is to teach" ~ Benjamin Jantz

 

I am a StarCitizen are you? My ships: Aegis Eclipse, Aegis Sabre, Aegis Gladius, Aopoa Nox, KI P52 Merlin, KI P72 Archimedes and the RSI Constellation Aquila.

 

My Phones are a Nokia Lumia 925 with WM10 and a Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with WM10 running the Fast Ring insider updates. Broke :(

Samsung Note 9 and a Samsung S9+

 

About Myself:   https://linustechtips.com/main/profile/229093-sansvarnic/?tab=field_core_pfield_46

 

 CHRISTIAN MEMBER 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Apple would have to show some hard evidence that the comment/title had a real, direct effect on the companies status and or sales/profit to show that slander or defamation occurred. Nearly impossible to show or link.

Pretty sure i've read headlines of companies doing exactly that and winning.... all from a "headline". Surely pointing to youtube comments stating "whoop, another reason not to buy apple" or something to that effect would constitute a link? Good lawyers could work that i'd guess?


 Motherboard  ROG Strix B350-F Gaming | CPU Ryzen 5 1600 | GPU Sapphire Radeon RX 480 Nitro+ OC  | RAM Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000MHz 2x8Gb | OS Drive  Crucial MX300 525Gb M.2 | WiFi Card  ASUS PCE-AC68 | Case Switch 810 Gunmetal Grey SE | Storage WD 1.5tb, SanDisk Ultra 3D 500Gb, Samsung 840 EVO 120Gb | NAS Solution Synology 413j 8TB (6TB with 2TB redundancy using Synology Hybrid RAID) | Keyboard SteelSeries APEX | Mouse Razer Naga MMO Edition Green | Fan Controller Sentry LXE | Screens Sony 43" TV | Sound Logitech 5.1 X530

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Noctus said:

Pretty sure i've read headlines of companies doing exactly that and winning.... all from a "headline". Surely pointing to youtube comments stating "whoop, another reason not to buy apple" or something to that effect would constitute a link? Good lawyers could work that i'd guess?

If they could show direct correlation then yes it would be libel. 


Tech News Posting Guidelines - READ BEFORE POSTING | Community Standards | Forum Staff

LTT Folding Users Tips, Tricks and FAQ | F@H Contribution | My Rig | Project Steamroller

 

Spoiler

 †  

 

Character is like a Tree and Reputation like its Shadow. The Shadow is what we think of it; The Tree is the Real thing.  ~ Abraham Lincoln

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.  ~ Winston Churchill

Docendo discimus - "the best way to learn is to teach" ~ Benjamin Jantz

 

I am a StarCitizen are you? My ships: Aegis Eclipse, Aegis Sabre, Aegis Gladius, Aopoa Nox, KI P52 Merlin, KI P72 Archimedes and the RSI Constellation Aquila.

 

My Phones are a Nokia Lumia 925 with WM10 and a Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with WM10 running the Fast Ring insider updates. Broke :(

Samsung Note 9 and a Samsung S9+

 

About Myself:   https://linustechtips.com/main/profile/229093-sansvarnic/?tab=field_core_pfield_46

 

 CHRISTIAN MEMBER 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

What, was LMG sad they were the only ones not in a legal dispute with Apple?

LMG, a pretty major tech influencer, publishes a video titled "More viruses on iPhone"....and then don't even use the word "virus" in your video to justify your joke/inference that 3rd party app stores would open the door for them.

 

It'll be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

Libel is the act of stating something as fact to cause damage to a brand/product. This is why all the fake-news sites like infow*rs,breitb*rt,f*x news, etc make money off of selling opinion "entertainment" and aren't news outlets, or very little actual news exists in between opinion editorialize pieces that are all about selling snake oil to the most gullible person. This is why advertisers do not want to advertise on fake content, because it tarnishes their own brand when people associate their product with that channel or site. 

 

Like to me, I think Linus is respectable, but I really do not want to see misleading titles on videos, because this can cause the videos to be filtered and algorithmicly associated with the scareware fake software videos. If you say iphone and virus, it's going to end up bringing all the "your iphone has millions of viruses and the government doesn't want you to know" kind of nonsense.

 

Even if the intent was not to damage the brand for entertainment it becomes libel, and this is one reason why even really really safe brands, get renamed in content for the US market, even if it's pretty darn obvious what the brand is. This is why on Mythbusters they print new labels over products so they don't give people wrong ideas about those brands, even if those brands themselves might be bad. (There's also a general issue about not giving free marketing to products that haven't paid for endorsement, so that door swings both ways.)

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
On 5/14/2019 at 2:15 PM, SansVarnic said:

Apple would have to show some hard evidence that the comment/title had a real, direct effect on the companies status and or sales/profit to show that slander or defamation occurred. Nearly impossible to show or link.

Keeping in mind I doubt Apple would do anything like going after LMG legally (a polite email asking to "clarify" the title would be the most I could see....and I note it looks like that vid's title has altered a little...

 

A company like Apple has more than enough money and lawyers to pursue legal action if they want to make a point about this kind of thing.


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the only civilized discussion about LTT clickbait I have ever seen. Im impressed...

 

Technically it could be, but in this case I think Apple would have a hell of a case proving it.


Main PC: AMD Ryzen 1700 (8c/16t), MSI B350 Tomahawk, NDH 15, T-Force Delta RGB 16GB, Asus ROG STRIX RX-580, nVidia GTX 560, Samsung 128GB NVME, Crucial MX-300 1.05TB, 8TB WD Red/White, Corsair CX 750

School Laptop: Early 2014 Macbook Air. Intel i5-4260U, 4GB RAM, 128GB Apple PCI-E SSD, Intel HD Graphics 5000

Phone: iPhone XS Max 64GB: A12 Bionic. 4GB RAM, 6.5-inch 2,688 x 1,242 OLED, 3,174 mAh 

Wearables: Sony 1000XM2

Random devices in various stages of working: Dell Inspiron 1000 (Works perfect other than battery), Late 2008 Macbook Aluminum Unibody (For Sale), Gateway Solo W2000 Laptop (For writing floppies, needs a battery), iBook G4 (For Sale.), Surface 3 (Touch screen is borked, perfect otherwise.), Lenovo G580 (For Sale)

 

Spoiler

"I looked to the sky in angst and yelled into the vast blue emptiness in hopes for an answer I would not receive. The very next day the sky fell."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

Technically it could be, but in this case I think Apple would have a hell of a case proving it.

 

Oh sure...most of those kind of lawsuits are settled rather than ruled on,,part of why it's a pretty fuzzy area.


Motherboard: MSI A320M PRO-VH PLUS  ** Processor: AMD Ryzen 2600 3.4 GHz ** Video Card: Nvidia GeForce 1070 TI 8GB Zotac 1070ti
Memory: 32GB DDR4 2400  ** Power Supply: 650 Watts Power Supply Thermaltake +80 Bronze Thermaltake PSU

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Video Beagle said:

 

Oh sure...most of those kind of lawsuits are settled rather than ruled on,,part of why it's a pretty fuzzy area.

The issue of Libel is that you need to prove it. And the only measurable case of Libel I know of in recent history is Elon Musk's "Pedo Guy" debacle, and it hasn't even hit court yet. I don't think it ever will.

 

If I went on record saying "Video Beagle smells bad", and then you sued me for libel, how would you prove it? What proves it? What qualifies libel, considering it is almost always based within disagreements on personal beliefs/interpretations. None of this is defined, and relying on preceding cases won't get you much further.

 

The issue is (atleast in the US) you have about as much chance of quantifiably proving libel as you would winning a case against the federal government. In my Government professors words, "Good luck."


Main PC: AMD Ryzen 1700 (8c/16t), MSI B350 Tomahawk, NDH 15, T-Force Delta RGB 16GB, Asus ROG STRIX RX-580, nVidia GTX 560, Samsung 128GB NVME, Crucial MX-300 1.05TB, 8TB WD Red/White, Corsair CX 750

School Laptop: Early 2014 Macbook Air. Intel i5-4260U, 4GB RAM, 128GB Apple PCI-E SSD, Intel HD Graphics 5000

Phone: iPhone XS Max 64GB: A12 Bionic. 4GB RAM, 6.5-inch 2,688 x 1,242 OLED, 3,174 mAh 

Wearables: Sony 1000XM2

Random devices in various stages of working: Dell Inspiron 1000 (Works perfect other than battery), Late 2008 Macbook Aluminum Unibody (For Sale), Gateway Solo W2000 Laptop (For writing floppies, needs a battery), iBook G4 (For Sale.), Surface 3 (Touch screen is borked, perfect otherwise.), Lenovo G580 (For Sale)

 

Spoiler

"I looked to the sky in angst and yelled into the vast blue emptiness in hopes for an answer I would not receive. The very next day the sky fell."

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/14/2019 at 10:30 PM, Noctus said:

Pretty sure i've read headlines of companies doing exactly that and winning.... all from a "headline". Surely pointing to youtube comments stating "whoop, another reason not to buy apple" or something to that effect would constitute a link? Good lawyers could work that i'd guess?

I dunno, you'd have to be an amazing lawyer to prove that this video title is the thing that made the difference for that one lost sale, which I'd say is a stretch considering that the hypothetical commenter appears to already have a list of reasons not to buy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×