Privacy search-engine company DuckDuckGo submits “The Do-Not-Track Act of 2019” to improve online privacy

[Bramimond]

"Privacy" and "DDG" don't really go together all that well. I'd recommend searx.me, but Google effectively broke the site.

 

Quote

1) DuckDuckGo has a tracker on the home page.

2) DuckDuckGo tracks the ads you click on before redirecting you. You can see this in the screenshot below.

https://www.stoutner.com/new-default-homepage-and-search-engine/

 

 

Quote

Gabriel Weinberg, the founder of DuckDuckGo, used to run the Names Database.[1] This was a website that aimed to connect people who had lost contact by gathering lots and lots of e-mail addresses. Getting access could be done by either paying money, or submitting lots of e-mail addresses of other people. Since the service revolved around gathering personal information, it is very suspicious for Gabriel Weinberg to start a business that is privacy-oriented. [2]

DuckDuckGo used to set a tracking cookie, even though they claimed they didn't. This was done by a third party they cooperate with, which means that it wasn't necessarily intentional, but if it's unintentional, it shows a worrying lack of care.[3]

DuckDuckGo is based in the US. This makes it really easy for the NSA to compromise it. If it were based in the EU, for example, the NSA wouldn't have the legal power to force them to log everything without telling anyone. This wouldn't guarantee privacy, but it would make it a lot more plausible. Instead, they're based in the US, which means that the NSA can do whatever they want with them. There are secure search engines that are not based in the US.[3]

https://8ch.net/tech/ddg.html

sources:

https://archive.is/9wR4O

https://archive.is/N2qe8

https://archive.is/qntuk

[Delicieuxz]

29 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I wonderif they get booted from the Store if they do?

 

Related but not the same thing: Apple have made some moves to restrict data harvesting through apps sold on their store. Dunno how effective it is, though.

 

Apple bans developers from harvesting user contact details from App Store

Apple deletes over 250 data-mining apps from App Store

 

 

Apple still harvests user data, but in general it's a lot less than what other sources do:

 

I asked Apple for all my data. Here's what was sent back

Quote

And that's it -- there's really not much to it.

 

As insightful as it was, Apple's treasure trove of my personal data is a drop in the ocean to what social networks or search giants have on me, because Apple is primarily a hardware maker and not ad-driven, like Facebook and Google, which use your data to pitch you ads.

 

[Delicieuxz]

17 minutes ago, Bramimond said:

"Privacy" and "DDG" don't really go together all that well. I'd recommend searx.me, but Google effectively broke the site.

 

https://www.stoutner.com/new-default-homepage-and-search-engine/

 

 

https://8ch.net/tech/ddg.html

sources:

https://archive.is/9wR4O

https://archive.is/N2qe8

https://archive.is/qntuk

 

I don't know what the facts of this matter are, but in this Quora answer, the CEO of DuckDuckGo claims that their search is anonymous and that every time someone uses DuckDuckGo it might as well be for their first time ever.

 

What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

Quote

DuckDuckGo has been a profitable company since 2014 without storing or sharing any personal information on people using our search engine.

 

...

 

In fact, search advertisers buy search ads by bidding on keywords, not people. It makes intuitive sense, too. If you search for ‘car’, you are more likely to respond to a car ad than something you searched for last week.

 

This keyword-based advertising is our primary business model. When you search on DuckDuckGo, we can show you an ad based on the keywords you type in. That’s it. And it works. Our privacy policy, in a nutshell, is to not collect or share any personal information at all. Every time you search on DuckDuckGo it is as if you were there for the first time – anonymous.

 

For example, if you type in ‘dishwasher’ you will get a dishwasher ad.

 

...

 

Google, Facebook, and The Creepy Line

 

Eric Schmidt, former Google CEO and Chairman, famously said “Google’s policy on a lot of these things is to get right up to the creepy line, but not cross it.” But for most people, that line was crossed by Google, Facebook, and others long ago.

 

Alarmingly, Google now deploys hidden trackers on 76% of websites across the web to monitor your behavior and Facebook has hidden trackers on about 25% of websites, according to the Princeton Web Transparency & Accountability Project. It is likely that Google and/or Facebook are watching you on most sites you visit, in addition to tracking you when using their products.

 

...

 

Anonymous Affiliates

 

As mentioned, DuckDuckGo is profitable based mostly on keyword-based search ads, though we have always been on the search for other ways to anonymously make money so that we can reduce the dependence on advertising. The only other way we’ve found so far, which currently accounts for a much smaller portion of our revenue, is non-tracking affiliate partnerships with Amazon and eBay.

 

When you visit those sites through DuckDuckGo, including when using !bangs, and subsequently make a purchase, we receive a small commission. This mechanism operates anonymously and there is no personally identifiable information exchanged between us and Amazon or eBay. These partnerships also don't affect the ranking of search results. The reason we can do this in an anonymous way with Amazon and eBay, though not with other retailers, is because Amazon and eBay run their own affiliate networks.

 

[poochyena]

Why should I be concerned about a website tracking what I do on their site?

[Curious Pineapple]

Just now, poochyena said:

Why should I be concerned about a website tracking what I do on their site?

No reason to, it's when Google is tracking you on every single site that has google ads that it becomes a problem.

[Delicieuxz]

12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Why should I be concerned about a website tracking what I do on their site?

It isn't limited to what you do on their site, and all the data that is harvested about you forms a comprehensive profile of you identity and character, and that profile is sold to anyone.

 

So, the question isn't really why should you care that a website knows what you do on their site, but why should you care that meticulous profiles of you are being made and shared between companies and governments so that they can manipulate you with that information while also knowing where you are at every moment of the day.

[Andreas Lilja]

25 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

No reason to, it's when Google is tracking you on every single site that has google ads that it becomes a problem.

So no more Massdrop ads? 

[Curious Pineapple]

Just now, Andreas Lilja said:

So no more Massdrop ads? 

No more Massdrop.

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

No reason to, it's when Google is tracking you on every single site that has google ads that it becomes a problem.

What becomes the problem then? Its still just tracking you when you use their product

 

1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

why should you care that meticulous profiles of you are being made and shared between companies and governments so that they can manipulate you with that information while also knowing where you are at every moment of the day.

Right, thats my question.

[Delicieuxz]

9 minutes ago, poochyena said:

What becomes the problem then? Its still just tracking you when you use their product

 

Right, thats my question.

Because it gives bad-faith actors power over you and diminishes your security and privacy against them.

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Because it gives bad-faith actors power over you and diminishes your security and privacy against them.

explain how I lose power and security.

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

explain how I lose power and security.

If you have no power to do anything against a company taking your data/privacy, what recourse do you have?

[Delicieuxz]

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

explain how I lose power and security.

When bad-faith actors, including organizations and governments and the individuals working for them, can see your every habit, interest, and daily schedule, they can potentially use that against you. The range of things that can be done with that information is everything from knowing how to get you to spend more money to knowing when you're not home so your house can be broken into, to knowing where you are vulnerable to being kidnapped or killed, if / when you're cheating on your partner, whether you visit a known weed-dealer's place, whether you were at a bar before driving home... the point is that someone with bad or inconsiderate intentions suddenly has free reign to exploit you and you'll be completely unaware it's happening.

 

And the more profiles that are made about you and shared between companies, the more all you information can be compiled into a bigger, more specific profile, and the more people there are who will have their hands on that information and the more public that information becomes, and the greater the chances are of you being targeted for something you'd rather not be.

 

The whole interest in companies and groups knowing all those things about you is to manipulate you, typically with ads, whether for commerce or political voting, or other things. Someone who can manipulate you has power over you. And the more information they have on you, the more they can manipulate you, the more they can exploit you, the less your own word counts when you speak for yourself - because your data will speak for you.

 

When you give up your right to security and privacy because you don't care in the moment, you've diminished your rights and personal control and entitlements going forward and will have a much more difficult time getting those things back when you eventually begin to understand the value of those things and they become important to you.

[poochyena]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

If you have no power to do anything against a company taking your data/privacy, what recourse do you have?

What recourse do I need?

4 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

from knowing how to get you to spend more money

Thats not a bad thing. I like targeted ads

5 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

knowing when you're not home so your house can be broken into

...why would google want to break into my house? In what scenario does a petty thief has access to that data? Why would a petty thief even try and get that data when just looking to see if there is a car in the parking lot or knocking on the door is 100 times easier? This is just unrealistic fear mongering.

9 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

to knowing where you are vulnerable to being kidnapped or killed, when you're cheating on your partner

see above

10 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

whether you visit a known weed-dealer's place

What does that matter? Its not illegal to be friends with a weed-dealer

11 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

whether you were at a bar before driving home.

What does that matter? Its not illegal to be at a bar and then drive home

[Delicieuxz]

49 minutes ago, poochyena said:

What recourse do I need?

Hey, you're not dead from a car crash, so what do you need seatbelts for? Just remove them from all cars since dying isn't a problem because it hasn't happened to you.

 

And all personal political election voting records made by all people, just make all of those public. There's nothing illegal about voting one way or the other, so no need for privacy about those things - it's not as if people get targeted, harassed, and attacked based on information of them doing something that's entirely legal.

 

49 minutes ago, poochyena said:

...why would google want to break into my house? In what scenario does a petty thief has access to that data? Why would a petty thief even try and get that data when just looking to see if there is a car in the parking lot or knocking on the door is 100 times easier? This is just unrealistic fear mongering.

What makes you think that only Google has that information, that everyone who works at Google is a model citizen, and that there's some magical force that ensures that only the most innocent of people are receiving your personal information? That is all baseless.

 

There could be someone as careless about information as you are handling it, and then everybody that information is about would be at risk.

 

49 minutes ago, poochyena said:

In what scenario does a petty thief has access to that data?

In the real-world one, where that information is shared around between companies and where major data leaks are frequent, and so an increasing amount of it is in an increasing number of people's hands.

 

And it sounds like maybe your conception of a thief comes from movies - as if there's a stereotype and that stereotype doesn't include people who work at places with access to user data. Those movies aren't real-life.

 

49 minutes ago, poochyena said:

see above

There aren't limits on who potentially can have access to the data, and the people who do have access to the data and the places the data is available are endlessly increasing. And the conception otherwise is ignorance.

 

Letting stalkers, rapists, child predators, revenge-seekers, kidnappers, corrupt police, hitmen, have the means to know where you, your family including your kids, are at all times is foolish - that goes without saying. Yet, in saying you don't care about data-harvesting means you're saying you don't care those types of people will have opportunities to exploit information on people.

 

Your Apps Know Where You Were Last Night, and They’re Not Keeping It Secret - The New York Times

 

Quote

What does that matter? Its not illegal to be friends with a weed-dealer

Quote

What does that matter? Its not illegal to be at a bar and then drive home

That's a dumbfounding level of naivety and inexperience with the real world talking.

 

Anyway, you asked how you lose power and security and now you have an answer. Rationalizing over why should you care about losing power and security is besides the point, and silly.

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

that everyone who works at Google is a model citizen

Who is working at google, but also so poor that he or she has to resort to theft? Who is going to risk their job and entire life (since stealing workplace data results in MUCH longer jail time than simple breaking and entering) just to get information so they can steal few hundreds dollars from a house? Why would they go through all that work to steal that data when they could just knock on the door to see if anyone is home or see if their car is in the driveway? When has your scenario EVER happened?

 

7 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Letting stalkers, rapists, pedophiles, revenge-seekers, kidnappers, hitmen, have the means to know where you, your family including your kids, are at all times is foolish

Again, this is fear mongering. This has never happened and internet data collection is literally the worst way to do any of that. You are no different than the people saying GTA games causes violence. Based on no facts, just fear.

9 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

That's a dumbfounding level of naivety and inexperience with the real world talking.

Oh, so explain it to me then.

[Delicieuxz]

25 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Again, this is fear mongering. This has never happened

People haven't ever been stalked, raped, kidnapped, assaulted, robbed, extorted, murdered? Or, people haven't ever been stalked, raped, kidnapped, assaulted, robbed, extorted, murdered, based on information about the target and victim?

 

Well, you're wrong in either case. And in which case you think predatory behaviour is more likely: When there is no specific information on people, or when there is meticulous information on everybody?

 

25 minutes ago, poochyena said:

and internet data collection is literally the worst way to do any of that.

Having a full picture of everywhere a person is and what they're doing at every moment of every day is the worst way to go about doing things that are done by knowing when a person, or their property, is most vulnerable, and when there's the least chance of being caught?

 

Come again? There being that information to be accessed is a golden ticket for would-be perpetrators.

 

Quote

You are no different than the people saying GTA games causes violence. Based on no facts, just fear.

There is an incredible amount of ridiculousness in your arguments and false analogies. And I'm certain you're away of it and are now just trying to play it off.

[poochyena]

57 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

People haven't ever been stalked, raped, kidnapped, assaulted, robbed, extorted, murdered?

With the use of regular google tracking data, no.

 

57 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Having a full picture of everywhere a person is and what they're doing at every moment of every day is the worst way to go about doing things that are done by knowing when a person, or their property, is most vulnerable, and when there's the least chance of being caught?

Correct. I already explained twice why. Just going to their house to see if they are home is easier and just as effective.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

8 hours ago, poochyena said:

What becomes the problem then? Its still just tracking you when you use their product

No, you don't use their product, you are the product.  The companies that buy ads, those are the users. 

 

 

As for why tracking and infinite storage of data is a problem: What if you later decide to go into politics?  Anyone who has access to that old data can then us it to blackmail you.

"Hey, we need you to vote against this bill that would regulate our sector.  It would be a shame if your browsing history ended up in the wrong hands"

 

Or what if you want to organize a protest against your government and they can use that kind of info to start a smear campaign?

[DeScruff]

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

No, you don't use their product, you are the product.  The companies that buy ads, those are the users. 

 

 

As for why tracking and infinite storage of data is a problem: What if you later decide to go into politics?  Anyone who has access to that old data can then us it to blackmail you.

"Hey, we need you to vote against this bill that would regulate our sector.  It would be a shame if your browsing history ended up in the wrong hands"

 

Or what if you want to organize a protest against your government and they can use that kind of info to start a smear campaign?

Not just politics, it could be regular jobs as well. According to Career Builder ~70% of employers check peoples social media accounts.  https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/social-media-survey-2017

I'd say its certainly plausible for someone to make a service for employers to look up all the info that Google exc has gathered on a person since what someone searches/buys online can say a lot more about them then what their Social media profile does.

 

It suck to be turned away from a job cause your into some kinky or some might consider taboo shiznaz on your own time. - And that is NOT covered by anti discrimination laws.

[RejZoR]

5 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

No, you don't use their product, you are the product.  The companies that buy ads, those are the users. 

 

 

As for why tracking and infinite storage of data is a problem: What if you later decide to go into politics?  Anyone who has access to that old data can then us it to blackmail you.

"Hey, we need you to vote against this bill that would regulate our sector.  It would be a shame if your browsing history ended up in the wrong hands"

 

Or what if you want to organize a protest against your government and they can use that kind of info to start a smear campaign?

This. And also, they are already doing this already. The smear campaigns. Not by collected data per se, but it seems you can't say anything without bunch of idiots flooding to attack you.

[poochyena]

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

No, you don't use their product

no, i'm 99% sure I actually use their product.

 

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

What if you later decide to go into politics?  Anyone who has access to that old data can then us it to blackmail you.

good luck trying to blackmail me. All that means is corrupt politicians will more easily be called out which sounds good to me.

 

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

It would be a shame if your browsing history ended up in the wrong hands"

Not really. I have no problem uploading my browser history.

[Curious Pineapple]

17 hours ago, poochyena said:

What becomes the problem then? Its still just tracking you when you use their product

I don't choose to have adverts thrown at me, and I certainly can't choose who provides the ad services. I could refuse to use any Google services and they would still have a wealth of information simply from what websites they have served ads on.

 

Whe I deleted my Facebook account a few weeks ago I got a copy of the info and crap I had on there. One folder is advertising data, there was keywords in there for things that wre nothing to do with me, but would have been from websites my OH visited on my machine (whilst her Crap, sorry, Mac Mini was busted). I only ever used Facebook on mobile, never signed in on this machine, ever. Only had it for a few months so not even a chance of a sign in from when I created the account years ago.

[poochyena]

16 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I don't choose to have adverts thrown at me

Yes you do, by entering the website you consent to that.

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Yes you do, by entering the website you consent to that.

And at that point it's too late, I don't know who provides the ads for a site. What you are effectively saying is by wanting to use the Internet you should just agree to give whatever information is available about yourself to anyone who wants it.