Privacy search-engine company DuckDuckGo submits “The Do-Not-Track Act of 2019” to improve online privacy

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

What does that even mean. Its a public space. If you don't want to be in the public web, then go to the hidden web, somewhere the public can't go.

 

You're being obtuse for the sake of it. 

 

You can look at me all you want in public (IP address). But I do not, have not, and will not, accept a "EULA" (they aren't legally binding) that allows my private data to be sold to the store next door (the website next door). The information is mine and yours, not the companies'. We should maintain full control of our data without having to seclude ourselves as you're suggesting. 

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

You're being obtuse for the sake of it. 

You are. You are asking for a paradox; to be given privacy while also being in public.

 

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

that allows my private data to be sold to the store next door (the website next door).

Companies don't sell private data, they only sell data that you explicitly give to them. Walmart doesn't know what you do on your private property and google doesn't know what you do on your own private website.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

You are. You are asking for a paradox; to be given privacy while also being in public.

 

 

I think you have confused the internet being an open service/asset with activity on the internet being openly public.

 

The internet is exactly like a telephone service, it is a publicly open network (everyone can use it) but how private that usage is should be up to the end user.  The only reason people are getting away with recording your internet activity is because the laws haven't caught up with it yet.

 

If I access a website and browse it's contents, that is the same as me walking into a store/library.  Logging where I go in real life is called stalking and is illegal,  where I go in the digital world should be exactly the same.

 

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Logging where I go in real life is called stalking and is illegal,  where I go in the digital world should be exactly the same.

It is though. Google, for example, doesn't and can't track where you go if you aren't using one of their services.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

It is though. Google, for example, doesn't and can't track where you go if you aren't using one of their services.

That's not the same thing as arguing the use of the internet is a public endeavour.   You know when you walk into a shop that the shop doesn't take your your details and then compare it to the shop next door to create an account of your shopping trips.   All these websites that do this do so without your consent, in fact the average person doesn't know it is happening until they get onto a completely knew website the suggestions and ads are the last 5 websites they visited and put two and two together.

 

Now don't play the fool and try to argue not to use those websites, it would be the same as arguing not to use any shops. 

 

 

 

 

[poochyena]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

You know when you walk into a shop that the shop doesn't take your your details and then compare it to the shop next door to create an account of your shopping trips.

Neither does a website unless you give them the information. Google doesn't know you like kittens unless you search for kittens.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

Neither does a website unless you give them the information. Google doesn't know you like kittens unless you search for kittens.

Google can know you like kittens because the other websites you viewed shared that information with them without your permission.  I visited pccasegear.com.au and the very next ad to  popup in another unrelated website is an ad for pccasegear. Why? googleadservice.   Not once did I visit google or use a google service. But these websites do.  

 

 

 

 

[poochyena]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Why? googleadservice.   Not once did I visit google or use a google service.

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh
mate
google adsense is owned by google.
Visiting a page with google adsense is using one of their services.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh
mate
google adsense is owned by google.
Visiting a page with google adsense is using one of their services.

Which you did not agree to explicitly. There is no popup that asks if you're okay with it and there's no button to decline (which is necessary). 

[mr moose]

Just now, poochyena said:

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh
mate
google adsense is owned by google.
Visiting a page with google adsense is using one of their services.

 

Righto,  and using a website that also uses another service undisclosed to you means that you are intentional agreeing to use that service.

 

No you're not.  Just because a website uses adsense, does not mean the user that visits that site is even aware of it let alone agreeing to it or wanting to be part of that service.

 

You are literally trying too argue that online data tracking is ok because they are doing it.  It's not ok, we are saying this isn't right and your only argument as to why it is right is because they are doing it.    Guess what?  doing something doesn't make it right, let alone legal.

[RejZoR]

58 minutes ago, poochyena said:

It is though. Google, for example, doesn't and can't track where you go if you aren't using one of their services.

Oh boy you're wrong...

 

Open pretty much ANY webpage and I can almost guarantee you there will be:

a) DoubleClick (which is Google's ad tracking company)

b) Google Analytics

c) Google Tag Services

 

Even if you don't use ANY of Google services, they are keeping a shadow image of your online habits through these and through cross referencing of their services when you do use just some of their services.

[dalekphalm]

9 hours ago, poochyena said:

You are. You are asking for a paradox; to be given privacy while also being in public.

 

Companies don't sell private data, they only sell data that you explicitly give to them. Walmart doesn't know what you do on your private property and google doesn't know what you do on your own private website.

And right here is the utter failing of your argument.

 

I give Walmart my credit card to make purchases.

 

Are you saying it's okay to give me your credit card, the name on it, the billing address, and the CVV code? Or how about a casino that scans your drivers license to verify age? Mind if they send me a copy?

[poochyena]

9 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Which you did not agree to explicitly.

You do by being in public. Thats part of the agreement of being in public is that other people can watch what you do in public.

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Righto,  and using a website that also uses another service undisclosed to you means that you are intentional agreeing to use that service.

Yes, see above.

8 hours ago, RejZoR said:

even if you don't use ANY of Google services,

You answered this already, its either a b or c, so you are using one of their services.

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Are you saying it's okay to give me your credit card, the name on it, the billing address, and the CVV code? Or how about a casino that scans your drivers license to verify age? Mind if they send me a copy?

That is private information and is not shared with 3rd parties, whether it is a physical establishment or website.

[RejZoR]

@poochyena

"So, you're using one of their services"

 

Erm, no, because I never agreed on ANY of Google's crap. Crap just being there doesn't mean I wanted it there or agreed with it. So, that idea just doesn't fly.

[poochyena]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I never agreed on ANY of Google's crap.

You agree to use it by going to the site. Its a public site. Its no different than going to the park and someone looking at you even though you didn't agree that they could look at you.

If you don't like it, you can not use their site or not ever go out in public. Its ridiculous to demand privacy in a public setting.

[RejZoR]

14 minutes ago, poochyena said:

You agree to use it by going to the site. Its a public site. Its no different than going to the park and someone looking at you even though you didn't agree that they could look at you.

If you don't like it, you can not use their site or not ever go out in public. Its ridiculous to demand privacy in a public setting.

Excuse me, WHAT? No one agrees to be tracked, but it's so wide spread people just gave up or simply don't care. Or are battling with this shit using filters and blockers. Also, try explaining what a god damn cookie is not to a grandma, but to someone who's just 40 years old casual who's not a geek. Good luck.

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, poochyena said:

You do by being in public. Thats part of the agreement of being in public is that other people can watch what you do in public.

Yes, see above.

You answered this already, its either a b or c, so you are using one of their services.

That is private information and is not shared with 3rd parties, whether it is a physical establishment or website.

Why is it private information? I gave it to Walmart. That was your argument earlier. You argued that since I used the service, I consented to them doing whatever with info I gave them.

[ARikozuM]

3 hours ago, poochyena said:

You do by being in public. Thats part of the agreement of being in public is that other people can watch what you do in public.

You can come up to me and say hi, but that doesn’t mean that I gave you permission to look at my wallet, license, or shopping cards.

 

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Excuse me, WHAT? No one agrees to be tracked

You don't "agree" to it, but its just the nature of being in public. You don't agree to allow someone to look at you while at the park, but thats what to be expected.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Why is it private information?

Because

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

I gave it to Walmart.

It was a private transaction. The keypad to enter your zipcode or pin is usually covered and your credit card info is explicitly given solely to walmart, its kept hidden in a wallet ever other moment.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

You argued that since I used the service, I consented to them doing whatever with info I gave them.

with public information.

[poochyena]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

that doesn’t mean that I gave you permission to look at my wallet, license, or shopping cards.

That is correct, its why web trackers don't know any of that information unless you give it to them.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, poochyena said:

That is correct, its why web trackers don't know any of that information unless you give it to them.

Trackers do exactly what it sounds like. They stay with you across multiple websites. Not only did you say hi to me at the park, you just followed me on my 5K, to CVS, Detwilers, and then asked if I’d like to buy running shoes. In your analogy, it’s stalking.

[RejZoR]

15 minutes ago, poochyena said:

That is correct, its why web trackers don't know any of that information unless you give it to them.

Cross referencing is a thing you know...

[dalekphalm]

13 minutes ago, poochyena said:

You don't "agree" to it, but its just the nature of being in public. You don't agree to allow someone to look at you while at the park, but thats what to be expected.

It's to be expected because it cannot be prevented while in public. The same cannot be said for website tracking. It can easily be prevented, if website respected users privacy.

13 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Because

It was a private transaction. The keypad to enter your zipcode or pin is usually covered and your credit card info is explicitly given solely to walmart, its kept hidden in a wallet ever other moment.

And if I visit a website, that's a private interaction between me and them. I did not consent to them tracking me.

13 minutes ago, poochyena said:

with public information.

The sites I visit are not public information. The things I search, browse, or buy are not public information.

[poochyena]

23 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Not only did you say hi to me at the park, you just followed me on my 5K, to CVS, Detwilers, and then asked if I’d like to buy running shoes. In your analogy, it’s stalking.

If you see the same person in multiple locations and he works there, its not stalking. You can going to him, not the other way around. trackers don't follow you outside of places they are at. You you didn't go to the building that the man worked at, you'd never see him. if you never went to the sites google has services at, you'd never see it.

17 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

The same cannot be said for website tracking. It can easily be prevented

It can be mitigated, but can't be stopped. Just like you can wear a mask in public.

18 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

And if I visit a website, that's a private interaction between me and them.

No, the website is public. The transaction is not. Just like any retail building.

19 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

The sites I visit are not public information. The things I search, browse, or buy are not public information.

If you do not require any special credentials to enter, then it is public. This forum is public, the user settings page is private.

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

You do by being in public. Thats part of the agreement of being in public is that other people can watch what you do in public.

Yes, see above.

You answered this already, its either a b or c, so you are using one of their services.

That is private information and is not shared with 3rd parties, whether it is a physical establishment or website.

Now your dodging the issue and just going back to pretending it is a public place and that makes it ok.