US Senate Against Lootboxes and Pay2Win Micro-Transactions

[Princess Luna]

It has happened on Belgium and discussion has been happening in other countries, we see more and more people being proactively going after the abusive "gambling" system that's been corrupting our beloved gaming industry on the past years, with giants like EA giving us the scares on every corner.

 

This might be starting to finally come to an end as US Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) is finally doing some shake on these "immoral" practices on the largest games market of the world:

 

Quote

Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) today announced a bill that would ban loot boxes and pay-to-win microtransactions in “games played by minors,” a broad label that the senator says will include both games designed for kids under 18 and games “whose developers knowingly allow minor players to engage in microtransactions.”

“When a game is designed for kids, game developers shouldn’t be allowed to monetize addiction,” Hawley said in a press release. “And when kids play games designed for adults, they should be walled off from compulsive microtransactions. Game developers who knowingly exploit children should face legal consequences.”

However the other side of this also has spoken:

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The Entertainment Software Association, the video game industry lobbyist group, sent over a statement shortly after this bill was introduced: “Numerous countries, including Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling.

 

I personally hope to see at least a slow down on certain practices on the gaming market without turning it into an unattractive business resulting in less games for us to enjoy.

 

Your thoughts?
 

Source.

[Drak3]

Still don't see why we should suffer because a few people can't control themselves and some parents can't do their job.

[2SidedPolygon]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Still don't see why we should suffer because a few people can't control themselves and some parents can't do their job.

I wouldn't call getting rid of loot boxes any kind of suffering at all.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, 2SidedPolygon said:

I wouldn't call getting rid of loot boxes any kind of suffering at all.

I would. I've thrown $5 at games I've like a handful of times in the past.

[Eaglerino]

I see no reason to introduce even more regulation. Vote with your wallet, leave the government out. If parent's can't keep watch of their kids that shouldn't be everyone else's problem

[DrMacintosh]

The Senate is a legislative wasteland. Especially right now. Don’t expect the bill to pass. 

[Emberstone]

I'm normally pretty conservative when it comes to government getting involved in industry, but this shit is predatory and is ruining games.

 

If you want to put in microtransactions, fine, but don't hide stuff behind 0.001% chances so people will never get them without dropping hundreds or even thousands in loot boxes.

 

I'm tired of seeing really cool games marred by the fact that they're centralized around you gambling for your progression (see: Elder Scrolls Blades).

 

And I'm tired of seeing this across the industry as a whole. You can hardly ever just buy a game anymore. You buy access to a "service" which gives you the privilege to spend more money on crap you may not even receive.

 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Emberstone said:

I'm normally pretty conservative when it comes to government getting involved in industry, but this shit is predatory and is ruining games.

 

If you want to put in microtransactions, fine, but don't hide stuff behind 0.001% chances so people will never get them without dropping hundreds or even thousands in loot boxes.

 

I'm tired of seeing really cool games marred by the fact that they're centralized around you gambling for your progression (see: Elder Scrolls Blades).

 

And I'm tired of seeing this across the industry as a whole. You can hardly ever just buy a game anymore. You buy access to a "service" which gives you the privilege to spend more money on crap you may not even receive.

 

Yeah, this is the classic example of why you need at least some regulation.  Some game developers are clearly abusing the practice knowing full well that kids will spend tons of money in hopes of getting a new skin or progressing through a mobile game.  We shouldn't get rid of all microtransactions, but you should know exactly what you're getting and shouldn't need to buy them just to make reasonable progress.

 

And to those who blame the players or their parents (not you, clearly) -- I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be forced to skip half the games on the market just because you have a gambling disorder.  It's time we stop blaming victims and ask game devs to do better.

[2SidedPolygon]

2 hours ago, Eaglerino said:

I see no reason to introduce even more regulation. Vote with your wallet, leave the government out. If parent's can't keep watch of their kids that shouldn't be everyone else's problem

This is gambling. Child gambling. That is not good. You can't say "Vote with your wallets!" on this kind of thing, because it's completely fine for a whole lot of people to do, and they'll vote "Yes" with their wallets. They should be held to the same standard as any kind of online gambling if they're going to do something like this.

[MMKing]

I don't care if there will be fewer games for us to enjoy. Games with micro transactions are inherently, and intentionally crippled by the developer or publisher to increase revenue. You can see it happening in real time with Fallout 76. They are introducing repair kits for real money, and tweaking the durability system at the same time.

 

Maybe you don't like Fallout 76. What about Battlefront 2? The loot boxes were retracted, and magically, the progression system was revamped. Why? Because the system did not function without the players throwing money at it. It was in practice, impossible to complete. Not in a year, not in three years could  you get through that system.

 

It's all just a scam. The developers intentionally break the game, then integrate the solution into the store. Repair kits, faster progression, more in game currency etc. These are not added on top of the experience, should some players wish to use them. The experience is hampered in such a way, as to make the experience seriously suffer should you not choose to make a purchase.

 

@Emberstone They can call it a service all the way to the grave and beyond. But it won't change the fact that software is product. Yours to keep for your own personal enjoyment until the end of time.

[ARikozuM]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Still don't see why we should suffer because a few people can't control themselves and some parents can't do their job.

I don't want half of the game walled off by "DLC" and chance. You want to make cosmetics directly purchaseable or through playtime? Go right ahead. Leave the slot machine at the office. 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

don't want half of the game walled off by "DLC" and chance.

Then don't buy it, it's that simple.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Then don't buy it, it's that simple.

This is about gambling. If you're going to have slots in your game, you better be taking actual ID before trusting the gamercard or profile. The main demographic for CoD and BF is between 14-23. You're targeting more kids in that domain than you are adults. Predation is likely to occur and we must be proactive rather than reactive. If the companies need more money than one game can produce by itself, they should downsize, liquidate/sell IP, and put the burden/fortune on those who can continue with success.

[Andreas Lilja]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

This is about gambling.

According to whom?

 

“Numerous countries, including Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling. [...]"

[Nowak]

3 hours ago, Eaglerino said:

Vote with your wallet

This is basically the equivalent to plugging your ears and saying "la la la la". Voting with your wallet never works, because people are gonna buy into it anyway, and you know it.

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The main demographic for CoD and BF is between 14-23. You're targeting more kids in that domain than you are adults

 

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

some parents can't do their job.

 

[TetraSky]

Considering publishers deliberately hamper progress in games in order to "encourage" players to buy lootboxes or other microtransactions... I'm all for actual legislation to counter this plague.

 

I've watched Jim Sterling' video on this news as well, which does add a few things like how the response of the ESA (literally the end of the video), is bullshit.

 

[Emberstone]

52 minutes ago, MMKing said:

They can call it a service all the way to the grave and beyond. But it won't change the fact that software is product. Yours to keep for your own personal enjoyment until the end of time.

This isn't true if you read most of their licenses. These services have limited lifespans, and oftentimes (as is the case with online games), the game is unavailable after the service gets taken down due to obsolescence. They reserve the right to shut down your access to these services in just about any way imaginable. Very rarely do you actually own the thing you buy in the digital age, and very rarely do you have complete, unfettered access to it unless it's one of those rare, spoken of only in legend, offline-only experiences.

 

Even if you buy a hard-copy Xbox One disc, you're still at the mercy of Xbox Live's willingness to download it to your system, and one day, it won't.

 

That's another reason why I have a problem with loot boxes. The stuff you buy will go poof one day. Those servers won't be up forever. You're gambling on a sham. So once their next thing releases, they can make you do it all over again. Now that they know kids and weak-willed "adults" will keep buying loot boxes, they'll never sell you a complete "product" again unless something is done about it. You can already see this happening.

[Trik'Stari]

Screw lootboxes, screw EA/Ubisoft/Activision-Blizzard, screw games as a service, and in general screw the TRRRRRIPLE AYYYY gaming industry. Let it all burn.

 

Now if only we can get the EU to outlaw lootboxes, so EA can go out of business when FIFA is no longer making them billions a year.

[THraShArD]

Loot boxes are stupid, games like Quake Champions is completely destroyed.  I totally support Senator Josh Hawley , and see this happening

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Andreas Lilja said:

According to whom?

 

“Numerous countries, including Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom, determined that loot boxes do not constitute gambling. [...]"

It’s pretty obvious to anyone it’s gambling.

[ravenshrike]

4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

The Senate is a legislative wasteland. Especially right now. Don’t expect the bill to pass. 

Please explain you rationale for Cocaine Mitch not bringing this bill to the floor. I'm sure it will be illuminating. Last I checked Kentucky wasn't exactly ground zero for gambling establishments in the US or video game companies and he is part of the party that is traditionally death on gambling.

[PlayStation 2]

3 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Please explain you rationale for Cocaine Mitch not bringing this bill to the floor. I'm sure it will be illuminating. Last I checked Kentucky wasn't exactly ground zero for gambling establishments in the US or video game companies and he is part of the party that is traditionally death on gambling.

It's all because "muh Republicans". It's hard to be objective when you can only trash one side of the story and not everyone.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

It's all because "muh Republicans". It's hard to be objective when you can only trash one side of the story and not everyone.

I wouldn't say it like that. Senate Majority Leader sets the schedules and voting opportunities for all bills. He has (more so than any other Maj. Leader, dem or rep) obstructed more bills from the opposition and his own party. 

[PlayStation 2]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I wouldn't say it like that. Senate Majority Leader sets the schedules and voting opportunities for all bills. He has (more so than any other Maj. Leader, dem or rep) obstructed more bills from the opposition and his own party. 

Never said Mitch was the brightest show in town.

Hell, half of the Republicans in the Senate are unremarkable.