Over a 150 Riot Games Employees Stage Walkout Over Forced Arbitration & Sexist Culture

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

What's the alternative then? Believing all supposed victims only to find out 10 years later that they were lying and that a poor dude's life was ruined for no reason? Everyone should be innocent till proven guilty, and by proven I mean indisputable evidence, not "I swear I'm not lying guys".

That's hate speech, you racist!

 

 

Am I SJWing correctly?

[Sauron]

18 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

What's the alternative then? Believing all supposed victims only to find out 10 years later that they were lying and that a poor dude's life was ruined for no reason?

No, the solution is to 1) listen to the victim, 2) collect the required evidence, 3) determine if the accused is guilty. It's quite simple really. I agree that witch hunts based purely on allegations are harmful and unfair but that's not the victim's fault (unless there was specific intention, which sounds like something that should also be proven in court) and here it seems like the opposite reaction is ensuing. In this thread half of the comments are along the lines of  "but women can be bad too", "these people are just playing the victim card", "it's a plot by marxists to kill men".

19 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Everyone should be innocent till proven guilty, and by proven I mean indisputable evidence, not "I swear I'm not lying guys".

Of course, but here it seems like we're assuming guilt on the part of the victim. Yes, of course prosecution requires proof and slander should be punished; nobody is arguing otherwise. It's just a weird point to bring up, unprompted, when you read a headline about a group of workers who protest against their working conditions... context is key.

[PCGuy_5960]

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

No, the solution is to 1) listen to the victim, 2) collect the required evidence, 3) determine if the accused is guilty. It's quite simple really. 

So basically what @Bouzoo said.

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I agree that witch hunts based purely on allegations are harmful and unfair but that's not the victim's fault (unless there was specific intention, which sounds like something that should also be proven in court)

The thing is these witch hunts happen pretty much every time an allegation is made. People jump to conclusions way too quick, so saying that we should not believe every allegation until it's proven makes sense and isn't "victim blaming".

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

and here it seems like the opposite reaction is ensuing.

Which is a good thing, people are skeptical and want actual proof before jumping to conclusions.

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

In this thread half of the comments are along the lines of  "but women can be bad too", "these people are just playing the victim card", "it's a plot by marxists to kill men".

Most of the comments are basically

which makes sense, because all the proof we have to work with is a biased article.

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Of course, but here it seems like we're assuming guilt on the part of the victim.

No, we are just not sure if they even are the victim. Being skeptical isn't a bad thing. 

48 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Yes, of course prosecution requires proof and slander should be punished; nobody is arguing otherwise.

Yes, but an allegation is usually enough to completely ruin someone's reputation/career, even if they are proven innocent the damage is usually already done.

 

EDIT: Plenty of people are arguing otherwise btw (metoo, believe all women etc)

[Guest]

I’ve always wondered how these companies actually make any money. So much with LoL is spent on advertising. 

[ARikozuM]

I'm against all forms of forced arbitration. Issues need to be investigated by the proper authorities and having the company choose who arbitrates is poor practice that only leads to biased arbitration. 

[Derangel]

On 5/10/2019 at 5:16 PM, PCGuy_5960 said:

What's the alternative then? Believing all supposed victims only to find out 10 years later that they were lying and that a poor dude's life was ruined for no reason? Everyone should be innocent till proven guilty, and by proven I mean indisputable evidence, not "I swear I'm not lying guys".

 

Real life isn't a procedural TV show. There is very rarely "indisputable evidence". This is even more true in cases of sexual abuse and assault. There is a reason a lot of rape and sexual assault cases are never prosecuted and that's because there is no "indisputable evidence" and even if the police and prosecutors believe the victim there is no way they can win a case unless the perpetrator is willing to confess. Even when cases do go the trial the result is often based more on the statements made on the stand and who the jury believes (or wants to believe).

[Commodus]

The "until proven guilty" camp seems to forget that, in this and other cases, there's a pattern of behavior.  This isn't one woman accusing Riot of doing something wrong; it's something that women in general have had to deal with.  You don't need a formal trial to make a reasonable determination that the company has a sexism problem.

 

This doesn't mean you should leap to conclusions, but... c'mon, folks, use your head.

[JZStudios]

On 5/7/2019 at 6:04 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Then again the CEO doesn't give me good vibes and strikes me as possibly immature.

Lol, that's awesome.

 

Seems like a good time for a fairly sizeable layoff too. Whether the allegations are true or not, it's easier to just make the people go away.

Reminds me of Lilyhammer on Netflix when a woman asks for a union so Van Zandt just says "I'm glad you asked, you're fired. Anyone else want a union?"

[Derangel]

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

Lol, that's awesome.

 

Seems like a good time for a fairly sizeable layoff too. Whether the allegations are true or not, it's easier to just make the people go away.

Reminds me of Lilyhammer on Netflix when a woman asks for a union so Van Zandt just says "I'm glad you asked, you're fired. Anyone else want a union?"

 

Riot has publicly stated that they support people participating in the walkout. Also, firing people for walking out would not only be an unimaginably huge PR disaster, but it might also open them up to several "wrongful termination" lawsuits (depending on worker's rights laws in Cali).

[JZStudios]

21 hours ago, Derangel said:

 

Riot has publicly stated that they support people participating in the walkout. Also, firing people for walking out would not only be an unimaginably huge PR disaster, but it might also open them up to several "wrongful termination" lawsuits (depending on worker's rights laws in Cali).

Eh, it worked for Twinkies. They just said "Screw it, we have enough money, let's just shut down the plant."

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 5/10/2019 at 4:56 PM, Sauron said:

Being a male is the only characteristic that makes you statistically more likely to be incarcerated. Being white reduces that likelihood by two orders of magnitude, at least if you live in the US. I couldn't find any statistics on "good looking" people being incarcerated...

There is some experimental evidence on ugly people being more likely to get sentenced / receive harsher sentences.

[Sauron]

4 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

There is some experimental evidence on ugly people being more likely to get sentenced / receive harsher sentences.

That seems believable, I doubt a judge would be prejudiced against a good looking person based on their looks. The stereotypical mugshot isn't a picture of Brad Pitt after all.

[Trixanity]

44 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That seems believable, I doubt a judge would be prejudiced against a good looking person based on their looks. The stereotypical mugshot isn't a picture of Brad Pitt after all.

I seem to recall the mugshot of 'the most handsome criminal in the world' causing quite the stir with women around the world demanding his release because a man like that must be innocent. Of course my memory might be embellishing the story a bit. Anyway I'd totally buy an attractive person getting more lenient sentencing if nothing else.

[Derangel]

20 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I seem to recall the mugshot of 'the most handsome criminal in the world' causing quite the stir with women around the world demanding his release because a man like that must be innocent. Of course my memory might be embellishing the story a bit. Anyway I'd totally buy an attractive person getting more lenient sentencing if nothing else.

Yes the whole "they look innocent" thing very much happens. Making a person "look innocent" is actually a big part of the job of a defense attorney so they're dressed up and taught how to present themselves to judges and juries. If they can make their client look innocent or, at least, sympathetic then it could mean they're declared innocent by the jury or given a lesser sentence from the judge.

[Kamina]

Riot games needs to fire the SJWs. They're such a liability to companies.

[Chett_Manly]

I'd fire them all. Right now, to the last one. Concerns were heard, an independent panel was setup to hear claims and judge senior leadership, and they willingly signed the arbitration agreements. This is not a just action, this is an attempt by far left political activists to gain power in the company. To force it to adopt a progressive culture. 

 

The progressive culture prevents free thought and expression, will censor their product, will hurt their revenue and corrupt their product. It will destroy them as it has destroyed Bioware. Employees will live in a politically correct nightmare akin to Stalinist Russia. Constantly having to maintain political correctness for fear of being purged.

 

If Riot wants to thrive, they must fire every last one of these progressive activists. 

 

 

[Mindersteve]

On 5/7/2019 at 3:03 AM, emosun said:

men are jerks , more at 11

Wow sexist much?

[emosun]

4 hours ago, Mindersteve said:

Wow sexist much?

case & point 

[Mindersteve]

28 minutes ago, emosun said:

case & point 

There's no reasoning with people like you

[EldritchMoose]

On 5/11/2019 at 1:13 AM, PCGuy_5960 said:

So basically what @Bouzoo said.

The thing is these witch hunts happen pretty much every time an allegation is made. People jump to conclusions way too quick, so saying that we should not believe every allegation until it's proven makes sense and isn't "victim blaming".

Which is a good thing, people are skeptical and want actual proof before jumping to conclusions.

This is why I think we as a society should not keep attempting to politicize sexual assault allegations. Society likes to run with the easy narrative because the Facebook audience receives its news in bite-sized chunks and soundbites. There's no room for nuance, which is exactly what cases like these need. Some cases will be genuine misunderstandings due to bad communication, others are completely genuine and yet others are the result of someone lying for some profit.

 

There are many factors to consider and unfortunately they all take time to analyze, weigh, etc. even for trained professionals. Your average person on Facebook is not a trained professional and will jump to conclusions, which adds nothing to the facts surrounding the actual case, regardless of whether the aforementioned conclusion is that the allegation is true or false.

Quote

Yes, but an allegation is usually enough to completely ruin someone's reputation/career, even if they are proven innocent the damage is usually already done.

How often does this actually end up happening, though? Because in high-profile cases it doesn't seem to be the case. Chris Brown is still making music, Roman Polanski is still making films and in those cases there was an actual conviction rather than just an allegation. Michael Vick is coaching football, Michael Jackson made music up until the moment he died, history seems to forgive entertainers for doing a lot of things.

 

The ability to entertain seems to come with a lot of goodwill from audiences, so I'm not yet convinced that Metoo will have any lasting effect on the careers of those accused if they keep their heads down for a couple of years.

On 5/11/2019 at 1:31 AM, comander said:

While this is often true, I do believe that this issue is overstated (particularly with respect to the type of people who go on tech forums who are usually smarter than average and who have a greater level of technical sophistication) - most people have more options than they believe they do, at least with a sufficiently long time horizon and some savvy (which can be acquired online, with respect to interview preparation and skill development). Full disclosure, I might be biased. I'm brighter than most and have ascended from a lowly position to a fairly desirable one (masters degree from elite university, strong 6 figure income from a very desirable employer on a team of people that I enjoy being around) over the last decade.

While you're not wrong that people often have more options, it's reductive reasoning that the employees can just easily find a better job, particularly in the gaming industry which has had its fair share of negative publicity recently when it comes to the treatment of employees.

[GoldenLag]

On 5/14/2019 at 4:53 PM, Mindersteve said:

Wow sexist much?

r/woosh

[Fnige]

13 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

r/woosh

you did it wrong, its r/wewsh

[GoldenLag]

7 hours ago, SlimyPython said:

you did it wrong, its r/wewsh

Well gosh darn. Im not updated on the memes then.

[Fnige]

2 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Well gosh darn. Im not updated on the memes then.

Nobody else uses it, I just thought it was funny

[Trik'Stari]

On 5/16/2019 at 4:13 AM, EldritchMoose said:

This is why I think we as a society should not keep attempting to politicize sexual assault allegations. Society likes to run with the easy narrative because the Facebook audience receives its news in bite-sized chunks and soundbites. There's no room for nuance, which is exactly what cases like these need. Some cases will be genuine misunderstandings due to bad communication, others are completely genuine and yet others are the result of someone lying for some profit.

 

There are many factors to consider and unfortunately they all take time to analyze, weigh, etc. even for trained professionals. Your average person on Facebook is not a trained professional and will jump to conclusions, which adds nothing to the facts surrounding the actual case, regardless of whether the aforementioned conclusion is that the allegation is true or false.

How often does this actually end up happening, though? Because in high-profile cases it doesn't seem to be the case. Chris Brown is still making music, Roman Polanski is still making films and in those cases there was an actual conviction rather than just an allegation. Michael Vick is coaching football, Michael Jackson made music up until the moment he died, history seems to forgive entertainers for doing a lot of things.

 

The ability to entertain seems to come with a lot of goodwill from audiences, so I'm not yet convinced that Metoo will have any lasting effect on the careers of those accused if they keep their heads down for a couple of years.

While you're not wrong that people often have more options, it's reductive reasoning that the employees can just easily find a better job, particularly in the gaming industry which has had its fair share of negative publicity recently when it comes to the treatment of employees.

The problem I have is that the MeToo movement has got the wrong point. We cannot morally take action against someone over an accusation, as a society. Because women are equally as capable of lying as men are. Not saying those women are lying, but I am saying they are capable of being lying to ruin the life or career of someone they simply hate.

 

I'd provide a great example of this, but I feel like it would go beyond the scope of the forum.

 

People need to report sexual abuse and harassment when it happens. If you don't, there's not much the system can do to help you, and it would be illogical and self destructive for society to simply "believe you" and act as though you were speaking fact when you accuse someone of something without any evidence. This would create a system that would be more than easy to abuse.

 

Maybe, as a society, we need to make self defense classes apart of the educational system at some point. Teach people how to actually defend themselves from an attacker.