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Nowak

Microsoft to ship full Linux kernel within Windows 10

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Posted (edited) · Original PosterOP

Yes, you read that title right.

feIvFkj.png

Sauce: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows-10-linux-kernel-feature

 

Because obviously just Windows Subsystem for Linux and OpenSSH support wasn't enough, Microsoft will soon ship a full Linux kernel in Windows 10.

Quote

Microsoft has surprised many in the Linux developer community in recent years. Surprises have included bringing things like the Bash shell to Windows, or native OpenSSH in Windows 10, and even including Ubuntu, SUSE Linux, and Fedora in the Windows Store. Microsoft is now going even further, with plans to ship a full Linux kernel directly in Windows 10.

 

Based on kernel 4.19, this will appear in Windows Insiders builds coming this summer.

Quote

“Beginning with Windows Insiders builds this Summer, we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel to underpin the newest version of the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL),” explains Microsoft program manager Jack Hammons. “The kernel itself will initially be based on version 4.19, the latest long-term stable release of Linux. The kernel will be rebased at the designation of new long-term stable releases to ensure that the WSL kernel always has the latest Linux goodness.”

 

You'll still have to install a userspace via the Windows Store to use the kernel, but this marks the first time that Microsoft, which has historically called Linux a "cancer" and produced hit pieces against Linux, will include Linux in Windows. This obviously is meant for developers, but since a kernel is now native to Windows, this should improve performance of WSL.

 

Also, yes, it will be updated via Windows Update, it will be open source, and the source code will be released in compliance with the GPL. Developers will also be encouraged to contribute their own changes to the kernel.

Quote

For developers it should dramatically improve the performance of Microsoft’s Linux subsystem in Windows. Microsoft is also promising to update this kernel through Windows Update, and it will be fully open source with the ability for developers to create their own WSL kernel and contribute changes.

 

Again, this is the same company that used to call Linux a "cancer" and actively resisted its proliferation in the workplace. Now they're embracing it to the point where they're including the kernel within Windows 10. Thoughts? Concerns? Screams of agony? Should Microsoft replace the NT kernel with the Linux kernel and finally usher in the Year of the Linux Desktop?

Edited by Nowak

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On 4/17/2017 at 5:36 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

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Honestly, time will tell whether if this'll be Microsoft's admission of defeat or them experimenting hardcore with Linux.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Honestly, time will tell whether if this'll be Microsoft's admission of defeat or them experimenting hardcore with Linux.

Microsoft also announced a new command line called Windows Terminal, so... I think they're getting ready to admit defeat.


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On 4/17/2017 at 5:36 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

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People complaining about Pride Month is why there's a Pride Month

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Just now, Nowak said:

Microsoft also announced a new command line called Windows Terminal, so... I think they're getting ready to admit defeat.

Windows has needed to be rebuilt for ages. Wouldn't be that bad of an idea to center it around Linux.


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1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Honestly, time will tell whether if this'll be Microsoft's admission of defeat or them experimenting hardcore with Linux.

Or just trying to convince devs and Mac users to transition to Windows, since Windows will now be able to natively support Unix.


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The vision and focus is shifting. They are just Improving their stand over Linux with integrations such as this. Nothing will be able to touch them with their aggressive adaption to opensource and Linux technologies to cater needs of developers. They have already won the battle if there was one.

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1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Windows has needed to be rebuilt for ages. Wouldn't be that bad of an idea to center it around Linux.

In all seriousness that would actually break a ton of software for companies and governments that rely on Windows, these corporations, and governments require many of these old pieces of software, and as their are a library of legacy programs that are still essential for many users, this would cause headaches galore and likely doom Windows, and force the population of the world to choose between Linux or Mac OS, and for many users out there, neither of those are appealing options. Then again we would be rid of the evil titan that is Microsoft, (not to dis their workers or anything, I just don't like Bill Gates, and the piece of spyware that is Windows 10).


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Sounds like they want to make Windows more interesting to programmers.

 

If Microsoft takes this seriously and really puts money and R&D into it, I can totally see this making Windows infinitely more attractive to future developers. 


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Are M$ finally starting to try EEE Linux?


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56 minutes ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

Or just trying to convince devs and Mac users to transition to Windows, since Windows will now be able to natively support Unix.

Mostly machine learning people who need linux because of unfit support of windows for most things they need :)

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1 hour ago, Nowak said:

Again, this is the same company that used to call Linux a "cancer" and actively resisted its proliferation in the workplace. Now they're embracing it to the point where they're including the kernel within Windows 10. 

Times and circumstances change - the business will change with them or suffer death.

 

Businesses who adapt are (generally) neither blind nor beholden to any particular ideology if it will make them money.

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Interesting, if Microsoft will update kernel faster than arc Linux, it really alternative to all other destros

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

Does this mean Windows would be able to natively run Linux software? If so that would be quite interesting.

You need to install a userspace first but yes. You can even set up an X server on Windows and run graphical Linux software.


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On 4/17/2017 at 5:36 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

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1 minute ago, Nowak said:

You need to install a userspace first but yes. You can even set up an X server on Windows and run graphical Linux software.

So this is quite huge, isn't it? I have some Linux software that I would like to run, but I could not be bothered to boot into a second OS all the time.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, NeuesTestament said:

So this is quite huge, isn't it? I have some Linux software that I would like to run, but I could not be bothered to boot into a second OS all the time.

Yeah. It actually is possible to run graphical Linux software on Windows via an X server and a few bash commands, but there's no audio support and I don't believe there's hardware acceleration. I wonder if this'll add those missing features.


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On 4/17/2017 at 5:36 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

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I'm not familiar with what exactly this means, so could someone explain?

Is it like, you'll be able to have those command line features from Linux in Windows itself? Like say install ROS and work with ROS from the new Windows Terminal?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I'm not familiar with what exactly this means, so could someone explain?

Is it like, you'll be able to have those command line features from Linux in Windows itself? Like say install ROS and work with ROS from the new Windows Terminal?

The Linux kernel will be included in the base Windows 10 install (from 19H2 on)

To interface with it, you need to install a userspace (such as Ubuntu or OpenSuSE) from the Windows Store, which will include Bash and all the terminal commands and such

Then, using Windows Terminal, you can run Linux terminal commands and execute Linux software natively on Windows


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On 4/17/2017 at 5:36 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

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People complaining about Pride Month is why there's a Pride Month

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17 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Times and circumstances change - the business will change with them or suffer death.

 

Businesses who adapt are (generally) neither blind nor beholden to any particular ideology if it will make them money.

There are circumstances and situations in which it's not financially viable to switch to something else. It's a side effect of creating an empire that spans such a vast field like Microsoft has done.

The first job I ever had was at a warehouse that packages food for a number of major companies. The business itself is fairly small, small enough that they can't afford the automation that many larger factories can. I can confidently say that some (not all) of the machinery they still use is older than most (if not all) of the people on this forum. Relics of the past that are completely electronic technology free. What automation and/or technological integration they do have is still running on XP to this day, to the best my knowledge. To update these systems would be on the magnitude of hundreds of millions of dollars, a burden that would put the company under.

Office workers (customer support, client relations, HR, sales, graphic design, corporate, etc) have moved beyond XP as that's not nearly the same level of financial burden.


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3 hours ago, Nowak said:

we will include an in-house custom-built Linux kernel to underpin the newest version of the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)

This line REALLY scares me, because it sounds an awful lot like Embrace, extend and extinguish.

I do not want Microsoft to get people to use their "custom Linux kernel" which might not behave the same way as the standard Linux kernel. I would like a standard, unmodified kernel.

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Well, it would be good to get rid of one of the pieces of crap that is the Windows kernel but I doubt it'll happen. Microsoft wants the exclusivity that comes with a proprietary kernel (and proprietary systems in general).

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Still can't help it but think this is a "free candy van.jpg" moment

 

Specially since it doesn't specifies professional and windows server where it would be legit useful, buy why would most home users need Linux inside Windows 10 (And not the far more useful other way around)


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5 hours ago, Giganthrax said:

Sounds like they want to make Windows more interesting to programmers.

 

If Microsoft takes this seriously and really puts money and R&D into it, I can totally see this making Windows infinitely more attractive to future developers. 

Well most developers worldwide use Windows, so i don't think they need to make the OS more attractive. It already is(depending on the tools you use of course).  What they made a lot attractive is Visual Studio and that is why more devs and companies are choosing Micrososoft/Windows and go with C# and .net.

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5 hours ago, Nowak said:

produced hit pieces against Linux,

“Hit pieces.” What a load of shit.

4 hours ago, Tedny said:

Interesting, if Microsoft will update kernel faster than arc Linux, it really alternative to all other destros

Doubtful.


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