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BiG StroOnZ

AMD's new Radeon RX 3080 XT: RTX 2070 performance for $330?

wkdpaul

It's completely fine to disagree and have a different point of view.

 

But please construct your arguments thoughtfully and without ad-hominem, antagonizing or passive-aggressive comments.

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Just now, leadeater said:

Turing still has a ton of improvements over on the CUDA side of things, much needed ones for DX12 and Vulkan.

 

The naming issues was a bit of a hole they dug themselves. If there is an RTX 2060 already then even if you keep the 20 series naming that's 3 products below that, are you and most other gamers going to rush out to buy an RTX 2010? 😉. Anything below x50 has a pretty big stigma about being low end garbage that you don't want.

Minor architectural changes that hardly make much of a difference. It's newer and better, but still, it hardly makes a real difference.

 

As for naming, I more had in mind GTX 2060 and RTX 2060. Same core Turing architecture, but one has no RT cores and Tensor cores and the other one does. Otherwise they would generally be the same in rasterized performance. Basically the way how it is between GTX 1660 and RTX 2060. But they make no sense name wise. RTX clearly separates ray tracing cards from the GTX ones that don't have it and that has been established with entire RTX lineup. So, I really don't see where was the need to make up whole nonsensical 1600 geneation naming scheme...

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Just now, RejZoR said:

Minor architectural changes that hardly make much of a difference. It's newer and better, but still, it hardly makes a real difference.

It makes a big difference for anything that will be utilizing async compute and other GPU compute tasks within the game. Pascal couldn't do this properly, you can see the effects of the hardware improvements in all the reviews where Turing close that gap greatly with Vega. It's certainly not nothing it just doesn't do anything for most existing games.

 

Quote

New Streaming Multiprocessor (SM)
Turing introduces a new processor architecture, the Turing SM, that delivers a dramatic boost in shading efficiency, achieving 50% improvement in delivered performance per CUDA Core compared to the Pascal generation. These improvements are enabled by two key architectural changes. First, the Turing SM adds a new independent integer datapath that can execute instructions concurrently with the floating-point math datapath. In previous generations, executing these instructions would have blocked floating-point instructions from issuing. Second, the SM memory path has been redesigned to unify shared memory, texture caching, and memory load caching into one unit. This translates to 2x more bandwidth and more than 2x more capacity available for L1 cache for common workloads.

 

Mesh Shading
Mesh shading advances NVIDIA’s geometry processing architecture by offering a new shader model for the vertex, tessellation, and geometry shading stages of the graphics pipeline, supporting more flexible and efficient approaches for computation of geometry. This more flexible model makes it possible, for example, to support an order of magnitude more objects per scene, by moving the key performance bottleneck of object list processing off of the CPU and into highly parallel GPU mesh shading programs. Mesh shading also enables new algorithms for advanced geometric synthesis and object LOD management.

 

Variable Rate Shading (VRS)
VRS allows developers to control shading rate dynamically, shading as little as once per sixteen pixels or as often as eight times per pixel. The application specifies shading rate using a combination of a shading-rate surface and a per-primitive (triangle) value. VRS is a very powerful tool that allows developers to shade more efficiently, reducing work in regions of the screen where full resolution shading would not give any visible image quality benefit, and therefore improving frame rate. Several classes of VRS-based algorithms have already been identified, which can vary shading work based on content level of detail (Content Adaptive Shading), rate of content motion (Motion Adaptive Shading), and for VR applications, lens resolution and eye position (Foveated Rendering).

 

Texture-Space Shading
With texture-space shading, objects are shaded in a private coordinate space (a texture space) that is saved to memory, and pixel shaders sample from that space rather than evaluating results directly. With the ability to cache shading results in memory and reuse/resample them, developers can eliminate duplicate shading work or use different sampling approaches that improve quality.

 

Multi-View Rendering (MVR)
MVR powerfully extends Pascal’s Single Pass Stereo (SPS). While SPS allowed rendering of two views that were common except for an X offset, MVR allows rendering of multiple views in a single pass even if the views are based on totally different origin positions or view directions. Access is via a simple programming model in which the compiler automatically factors out view independent code, while identifying view-dependent attributes for optimal execution

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-turing-architecture-in-depth/

https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/design-visualization/technologies/turing-architecture/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf

 

You get all these improvements with Turing that have nothing to do with the Tensor cores or RT cores.

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:10 PM, mr moose said:

 The advantage Ryzen had (the reason it is a halo product) is clearly observable.  

I think you're conflating halo product with what is just a good product. 

 

A halo product is something that is absolutely top tier in its segment, but is generally unobtainable to the vast majority of the market due to its price. Even though very few people buy it, the fact that it is the best means that a lot of people assume that the lower end, more affordable products in the same segment will be better simply due to being made by the same company. 

 

Ryzen is almost the opposite, where they provided near performance parity in most workloads (and superior performance in a few) at a more affordable price. Even Threadripper is absurdly affordable for what you get, at least in comparison to Intel's offerings. 

 

The 1950X could have been argued to be a halo product when it launched just due to it leapfrogging most of Intel's offering, and the 2990WX probably still is, but I don't see any way that mainstream Ryzen is in any sort of raw performance metric. A fantastic product and a smart buy, but there's nothing in that line that is so insanely powerful that it pulls the entire product stack upwards just due to existing. 

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2 hours ago, Waffles13 said:

I think you're conflating halo product with what is just a good product. 

 

A halo product is something that is absolutely top tier in its segment, but is generally unobtainable to the vast majority of the market due to its price. Even though very few people buy it, the fact that it is the best means that a lot of people assume that the lower end, more affordable products in the same segment will be better simply due to being made by the same company. 

 

Ryzen is almost the opposite, where they provided near performance parity in most workloads (and superior performance in a few) at a more affordable price. Even Threadripper is absurdly affordable for what you get, at least in comparison to Intel's offerings. 

 

The 1950X could have been argued to be a halo product when it launched just due to it leapfrogging most of Intel's offering, and the 2990WX probably still is, but I don't see any way that mainstream Ryzen is in any sort of raw performance metric. A fantastic product and a smart buy, but there's nothing in that line that is so insanely powerful that it pulls the entire product stack upwards just due to existing. 

 

TR is Ryzen and is a Halo product.   Just because people want to only think about the 3,5 and 7 doesn't mean the TR wasn't Ryzen  It certainly was a halo product and certainly is stile part of the Ryzen lineup. 

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

TR is Ryzen and is a Halo product.   Just because people want to only think about the 3,5 and 7 doesn't mean the TR wasn't Ryzen  It certainly was a halo product and certainly is stile part of the Ryzen lineup. 

 

 

Even my 1950x's box says Ryzen on it.


VashTheStampede 4.0:

CPU: AMD Threadripper 1950x | CPU Cooling: EKWB Liquid Cooling(EK-Supremacy sTR4 RGB - Nickel, EK-CoolStream SE 280, EK-Vardar EVO 140ER Black x 2, EK-XRES 100 SPC-60 MX PWM (incl. pump), EK-ACF Fitting 10/13mm - Red (6-pack), EK-DuraClear 9,5/12,7mm 3M, and Scarlet Red Premix) | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut | Mobo: Asrock X399 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GBs (2x16) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial MX500 500GB M.2-2280 SSD/PNY CS900 240GB SSD/Toshiba X300 4TB 7200RPM | GPU: Zotac Geforce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition(Replacing with a Radeon VII | Case: Fractal Define R5 Blackout Edition w/Window | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Operating System: Windows 10 Pro | Keyboard: Ducky Shine 7 Blackout Edition with Cherry MX Silent Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS | Headphones:  AKG K7XX Mass Drop Editions(Replacing with k712s) | Mic: Audio-Technica ATR2500 | Speakers: Mackie MR624 Studio Monitors

 

Surtr:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G(Temp/Upping to a Zen 2 Ryzen 7) | CPU Cooling: Wraith(Dark Rock Pro 4 when I get the 3700x or 3800x) | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryronaut | Mobo: Asrock x470 Taichi | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16GBs (2x8) DDR4-3200 | Storage: PNY - BX500 240 GB SSD+Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM | GPU: PowerColor - Radeon RX VEGA 64 8 GB RED DEVIL | Case: Corsair - SPEC-DELTA RGB | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold | Optical Drive: Random HP DVD Drive | Operating System: Windows 10 | Keyboard: Corsair K70 with Cherry MX Reds | Mouse: Corsair M65 Pro RGB FPS Speakers: JBL LSR 305 Studio Monitors(At some point)

 

Prince of Dark Rock:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 | CPU Cooling: be quiet! - Dark Rock Pro 4 | Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryronaut | Mobo: MSI B450 Tomahawki | Ram: G.Skill Ripjaws V 8GBs (2x4) DDR4-3200 | Storage: Crucial - BX200 240 GB SSD+Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 7200RPM | GPU: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB SSC | Case: Cooler Master - MasterBox MB511 | PSU: Corsair - CXM 550W | Optical Drive: Random HP DVD Drive | Operating System: Windows 10 Home | Keyboard: Rosewill - NEON K85 RGB BR | Mouse: Razer DeathAdder Elite Destiny 2 Edition 

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11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

TR is Ryzen and is a Halo product.   Just because people want to only think about the 3,5 and 7 doesn't mean the TR wasn't Ryzen  It certainly was a halo product and certainly is stile part of the Ryzen lineup. 

 

 

Sure, but if you say "Ryzen is a halo product", that's casting an awfully large net of you are actually referring to a couple of SKUs of a specific subset of the full lineup. 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing on the core of your point, just the phrasing. 

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1 minute ago, Waffles13 said:

Sure, but if you say "Ryzen is a halo product", that's casting an awfully large net of you are actually referring to a couple of SKUs of a specific subset of the full lineup. 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing on the core of your point, just the phrasing. 

I guess that is an issue with communication.  I didn't feel the need to be excessively specific earlier on because the core of the discussion is that halo products sell the whole stack, ergo if I talk about ryzen being a halo product then I am referring to the top end as halo and the rest of ryzen as the stack.   Just like the i9 is the halo and the rest of the core series is the stack.

 

 

I think the other thing that confuses people is that a halo product doesn't have to be excursively a single brand/product.  If you have two brands/products that trade blows at the top, then they are both halo products. It's only when you have a distinct gap between the best from one company and the best in the entire market from another that we would define one as a halo and say the other company doesn't have a halo product.  


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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