iMore's reply to Linus on why macs are slower than PCs

[bruhbing]

An article I found browsing the web:

 

About the fact that Isheeps blatantly ignore the truth. The fact that Linus is wrong that Macs are slower than pcs, when there is evidence on the contrary. The purpose of the article is to say that Apple devices thermal throttle like pcs, but not further. It is true laptops with i9s thermal throttle, albeit to a lesser extent. Is it right to put a CPU in a thin laptop, when not performing too at least near the full capacity? In Linus's video, he states that the i9 thermal throttles to below the base clock.

 

Quote

So, why is the Mac slow than the PC?

No, of course not. Despite what Linus says, what he shows, over and over again, is that it isn't. He's wrong about almost everything in the video and the one thing he's right about, that the thermals prevent maximum performance, applies to similarly designed PCs as well, which makes it decidedly not a Mac thing at all.

 

"which makes it decidedly not a Mac thing at all" isn't true as there are no pcs that I know of with an i9 of this form factor.

Original article by iMore: https://www.imore.com/linus-wrong-about-macs-being-slower-pcs-heres-why

[Trik'Stari]

Watch enough repair videos and you'll realize that Mac's are absolutely poorly designed in regards to thermal performance.

 

Their response is exactly the deluded and uneducated type of dribble I would expect.

 

Quote

Linus also points out that all of this has been exacerbated by Intel's multi-year failure to shrink their process down too 10nm, and their compensating by, once again, throwing more cores at the problem, resulting in higher temperatures that manufacturers have to try and over-prepare for.

 

Which, again, can totally be done, but not without other, different compromises on the aforementioned noise or portability or dependency on AC rather than battery power.

1. Shrinking the die, as far as I am aware, reduces power consumption and ups efficiency.

2. Shrinking the die does not mean you have to cram more cores in there, to compensate. Because you haven't lost anything.

 

Quote

Apple is managing for thermal, sure, like other vendors. More in most cases. They've been doing it for years and so far, there's no real-world evidence to suggest it's been a problem. Not at all. But Apple's also been engineering around it by including top-of-the-line SSD and custom controllers. They're even including custom silicon like the T2 chip in more and more models, which handles security and device control, which helps with performance in several ways, from encryption speed to encode and decode.

Really? You mean like that time they made a system that ran so hot, the BGA melted itself and popped the GPU off the board? And their fix?

 

Put a piece of rubber between the outer case and the GPU, so that it wouldn't pop loose. Edit: Instead of doing a proper soldering job in the fucking first place.

[Nettly_]

Just now, huilun02 said:

Looks like just another Apple fan using the subjectivity argument to try and disprove a statement that has nothing to do with subjectivity.

 

Doesnt seem like news to me

As an Apple hater, I can still say the fact Linus saying "Macs are slower than PC's" is actually dumb.... Depends on more than 3 fucking factors.... in PC's there are MILLIONS of possibilities on it being slower than Mac... or even faster.... Linus pissed me off by saying that because yeah the data from the Mac helps.... but I have seen worse data on Windows and sometimes (but rarely) on Linux too. I can make a video "Mac is slower than Linux, here is why" or "Linux is slower than Mac, here is why" and both are correct but also wrong at the same time. "Windows is slower than Mac here's why" is another thing I can do. The simple fact is there are defects, issues people have while others don't. Contrary to popular belief computers are not predictable. They can fuck up for no reason but that doesn't mean the hardware or device is bad, you might have gotten unlucky with a broken OS, a broken CPU, GPU, whatever, RAM too. There is no one situation and honestly... no one buys macs for the speed, they do it for looks and flexing.

Also no I do not own a mac, but I use several at school. How my school affords it? No clue.

[Saccaed]

I love using dissenter to comment on articles.

[Eaglerino]

45 minutes ago, Saccaed said:

I love using dissenter to comment on articles.

too bad they removed it from the extension stores

 

that's pretty funny he's saying hardware is thermal-throttled on a well-cooled PC the same way it will always be thermal throttled on a mac

[Lathlaer]

Shocking, a guy who writes for a website called iMore and podcasts at applepodcasts.com has a problem with Linus saying something bad about Apple products.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

Shocking, a guy who writes for a website called iMore and podcasts at applepodcasts.com has a problem with Linus saying something bad about Apple products.

You just don't understand, they are designed to throttle so it's fine^*.

*Please ignore all MacBook Pro products before 2015 that didn't have this issue or was very minor.

[mr moose]

Everybody has to defend the revenue stream.   That's all this is.  Surely even this guy isn't that blind.

[TetraSky]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Really? You mean like that time they made a system that ran so hot, the BGA melted itself and popped the GPU off the board? And their fix?

 

Put a piece of rubber between the outer case and the GPU, so that it wouldn't pop loose.

This only affected a small number of users.

[TOMPPIX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USuXMkvY88I&feature=youtu.be&t=315

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 hours ago, TECHNOKID said:

"which makes it decidedly not a Mac thing at all" isn't true as there are no pcs that I know of with an i9 of this form factor.

i9 zenbook pro. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

You just don't understand, they are designed to throttle so it's fine^*.

*Please ignore all MacBook Pro products before 2015 that didn't have this issue or was very minor.

wrong. my mid-2012 13" goes to 90+ degrees with the stock fan curve. ui put a custom fan curve on it and now it maxes out at 70 degrees with the stock thermal paste. 

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

wrong. my mid-2012 13" goes to 90+ degrees with the stock fan curve. ui put a custom fan curve on it and now it maxes out at 70 degrees with the stock thermal paste. 

Sure they got hot but they didn't drop performance like me rock climbing without a rope. Even on bootcamp they didn't and one of my clients at the time was a school of 70 staff MacBook Pros running bootcamp, yea don't ask.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

4 hours ago, SafyreLyons-5LT said:

and honestly... no one buys macs for the speed, they do it for looks and flexing.

that is a very bold statement.

 

I use a Mac because I like macOS. that's the only reason. I cannot live without it. and I certainly like a fast computer. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Sure they got hot but they didn't drop performance like me rock climbing without a rope. Even on bootcamp they didn't

I've never seen an i9 MacBook tested with a custom fan curve so... 

[3 Lions]

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

that is a very bold statement.

But it's true...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Looks like just another Apple fan using the subjectivity argument to try and disprove a statement that has nothing to do with subjectivity.

it is correct though. a similarly designed pc does the same thing. (i9 zenbook pro)

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

But it's true...

no it isn't. I didn't buy my MacBook for looks. 

[3 Lions]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

no it isn't. I didn't buy my MacBook for looks.

As I've said to you before, you are NOT the only person in the world with an Apple device. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

As I've said to you before, you are NOT the only person in the world with an Apple device. 

the person I replied to said nobody buys a Mac for speed. that is wrong. that's why I said it's a bold statement. 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

I've never seen an i9 MacBook tested with a custom fan curve so... 

Why does that matter, the older MacBook Pros thermally were better. Then they got too thin, for no good reason, and suffer thermal design constraints because of it. Did Apple forget they have MacBook Airs? They have a specific product made to be thin, thin isn't better, thick isn't better either. MacBook Pro is supposed to be a performance balanced laptop and that is why I used to consider them the best laptops you could by, period. Now I don't.

[3 Lions]

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

the person I replied to said nobody buys a Mac for speed. that is wrong. that's why I said it's a bold statement. 

But it's true, Apple devices are the Chelsea tractors of electronics. They just are. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

But it's true, Apple devices are the Chelsea tractors of electronics. They just are. 

that still doesn't mean everyone who buys them buys them for looks. 

 

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Why does that matter, the older MacBook Pros thermally were better. Then they got too thin, for no good reason, and suffer thermal design constraints because of it. Did Apple forget they have MacBook Airs? They have a specific product made to be thin, thin isn't better, thick isn't better either. MacBook Pro is supposed to be a performance balanced laptop and that is why I used to consider them the best laptops you could by, period. Now I don't.

you are right. I was just saying maybe the thermals aren't too bad and you just need a custom fan curve. to be clear I would love if they went back to the 2012 design. the keyboards on those are SO much better than the new one's. 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

But it's true, Apple devices are the Chelsea tractors of electronics. They just are. 

MacBook Pros used to be the only laptops that would be near in perfect condition after 3 years of use, had excellent battery life, high end performance, chassis you could trust not to bend or fracture, great screen and a damn good trackpad.

 

There's always been legitimate reason to buy a MacBook Pro but my opinion is the current generation of product has tipped the balance a bit too far towards thin and light. Going back to the same or near the same thickness of old would allow a bigger battery (something I would love to see) and much more room for cooling (bigger fans and heatsink).

 

Pointing out part of the problem that Intel CPUs produce more heat is completely valid however it's not helped by the reduction is chassis capability for cooling, compounding the issue is not exactly a smart idea. You can optimize the voltage profiles, frequency steps, fan curves as much as you like but those are not replacements for better cooling. That's a complimentary relationship, particularly important in laptops.

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, SafyreLyons-5LT said:

As an Apple hater, I can still say the fact Linus saying "Macs are slower than PC's" is actually dumb.... Depends on more than 3 fucking factors.... in PC's there are MILLIONS of possibilities on it being slower than Mac... or even faster.... Linus pissed me off by saying that because yeah the data from the Mac helps.... but I have seen worse data on Windows and sometimes (but rarely) on Linux too. I can make a video "Mac is slower than Linux, here is why" or "Linux is slower than Mac, here is why" and both are correct but also wrong at the same time. "Windows is slower than Mac here's why" is another thing I can do. The simple fact is there are defects, issues people have while others don't. Contrary to popular belief computers are not predictable. They can fuck up for no reason but that doesn't mean the hardware or device is bad, you might have gotten unlucky with a broken OS, a broken CPU, GPU, whatever, RAM too. There is no one situation and honestly... no one buys macs for the speed, they do it for looks and flexing.

Also no I do not own a mac, but I use several at school. How my school affords it? No clue.

I think you're confusing a discussion about hardware with a discussion about software. It's not macOS that makes macs slower, it's the bad thermal design - and a cpu that overheats with inadequate cooling isn't a one-off freak event, it's thermodynamics.

 

Does that mean all PCs are better designed or cooler? Of course not but, usually, when you drop 2k on them they are or, at the very least, you can find one that is. If you want a mac, on the other hand, you don't really have a choice.