Family of man killed by his Model X on autopilot sues Tesla

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

You're making it wrong if you can give someone 3rd degree burns from spilling a little of your coffee on them.

 

And they would be right to sue you.

Boil water, put in cup, add spoon of instant coffee, stir. Then what? Put it in a fucking shipping container with a time lock on the door so it can't be opened for 25 minutes? No warning on a petrol pump saying don't pump into anus, would you sue for that too?

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

would you sue for that too?

No. Unlike being served coffee that is literally scalding, no one is selling me a dangerous product if I did that.

[Curious Pineapple]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

No. Unlike being served coffee that is literally scalding, no one is selling me a dangerous product if I did that.

Hot drinks made with hot water generally are pretty hot. You'd have a field day in our (countries) cafe's, hot drinks are made with boiling water straight from a kettle then served to the customer who will be fully aware of how hot the hot drink they asked for hot actually is. No warning signs, no lawyers at the door making people sign a disclaimer, just a nice hot cup of tea with steam coming off the top. Milk served on the side so the customer can add to taste.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Hot drinks made with hot water generally are pretty hot

Hot. Not scalding.

[Blademaster91]

1 minute ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Hot drinks made with hot water generally are pretty hot. You'd have a field day in our (countries) cafe's, hot drinks are made with boiling water straight from a kettle then served to the customer who will be fully aware of how hot the hot drink they asked for hot actually is. No warning signs, no lawyers at the door making people sign a disclaimer, just a nice hot cup of tea with steam coming off the top. Milk served on the side so the customer can add to taste.

IIRC,after the McDonald's coffee lawsuit, the temp the coffee is set at had to be lowered to avoid burns.

It is dangerous to be claiming something like "autopilot" even when there are disclaimers, like you don't see other car companies marketing stuff like lane keep assist as "auto lane keeping".

[RejZoR]

28 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

So is a coffee I make at home with, ya know, boiling water.

Opposed to brewing coffee with cold water...

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Feranoks said:

And it's eliminating Apple employees! Coincidence?!

Apple has gotten into driverless cars themselves, but the cars keep crashing because they have no windows.

[Curious Pineapple]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Opposed to brewing coffee with cold water...

They exist and taste like shite.

[Curious Pineapple]

13 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

IIRC,after the McDonald's coffee lawsuit, the temp the coffee is set at had to be lowered to avoid burns.

It is dangerous to be claiming something like "autopilot" even when there are disclaimers, like you don't see other car companies marketing stuff like lane keep assist as "auto lane keeping".

But you do see "emergency autonomous braking", which the EU want mandatory on all vehicles. Autonomous hints towards a self braking system and will likely be a magnet for shite drivers that won't bother to brake because the car can do it. But because that's not Tesla we won't shit on it eh.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

They exist and taste like shite.

I always thought they just used boiling water then put it in the fridge to cool. 

[Curious Pineapple]

Just now, floofer said:

I always thought they just used boiling water then put it in the fridge to cool. 

Don't think so, instant coffee can dissolve at room temperature and I'm sure filter can diffuse slowly in cold water.

[Guest]

Just now, Curious Pineapple said:

Don't think so, instant coffee can dissolve at room temperature and I'm sure filter can diffuse slowly in cold water.

Instant coffee and filter coffee are gross af. I mean coffee machine coffee ️. 

[Curious Pineapple]

Just now, floofer said:

Instant coffee and filter coffee are gross af. I mean coffee machine coffee ️. 

Pretty sure it will still work with cold water, just won't be as strong. I'd go try it if I could be arsed

[79wjd]

20 minutes ago, floofer said:

Instant coffee and filter coffee are gross af. I mean coffee machine coffee ️. 

 

18 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Pretty sure it will still work with cold water, just won't be as strong. I'd go try it if I could be arsed

Cold Brew is absolutely a thing. It's supposed to be less bitter, but can be made just as strong.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

 

Cold Brew is absolutely a thing. It's supposed to be less bitter, but can be made just as strong.

I know it’s a thing, it’s just not very good compared to real coffee. I need my cuppa boiling temp for ultimate oral cancer risk.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

The USA seems to be swarming with utter morons. They call the UK a "nanny state" for our rather strict H&S laws, then sue for a lack of warning labels on chainsaws, coffee, hammers, explosives and god knows what else. When there are repeated warnings that something should or shouldn't be done, there's too many warnings and people ignore them, leading to a lawsuit over needing more warnings.

It's not morons but a lack of counter-claim liability. You can find any lawyer that'll try to shake down a company in the States because there is nothing to lose for the person suing. Changing this problem runs into one big issue: most politicians are Lawyers. Would be nice to see those rules changed up a bit, but it's going to be a while.

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, Curious Pineapple said:

But you do see "emergency autonomous braking", which the EU want mandatory on all vehicles. Autonomous hints towards a self braking system and will likely be a magnet for shite drivers that won't bother to brake because the car can do it. But because that's not Tesla we won't shit on it eh.

That actually is a good point and probably would lead to many court cases in the missing states of common sense. All of those autonomous braking systems I have seen work only under certain circumstanses. Usual circumstance is under some certain speed (20-40km/h) because in higher speeds those systems actually become more dangerous than safe (the other traffic is endangered and the situation becomes 1 dies vs. many die and are injured). I can just imagine some American going to court room with a paper where some relative has died while running through a highway and being hit by a car going whatever-100-120km/h-is-in-imbeciles and blaming that the autonomous braking systems didn't work.

[Fasauceome]

2 hours ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Hot drinks made with hot water generally are pretty hot. You'd have a field day in our (countries) cafe's, hot drinks are made with boiling water straight from a kettle then served to the customer who will be fully aware of how hot the hot drink they asked for hot actually is. No warning signs, no lawyers at the door making people sign a disclaimer, just a nice hot cup of tea with steam coming off the top. Milk served on the side so the customer can add to taste.

Hot does not equate to third degree burns. You're aware the woman who was burned had to go the hospital and get a skin graft right? It was a life threatening condition. That's not the expectation for when you spill coffee, the expectation is that you'll have a grumpy morning and stain your pants.

[Curious Pineapple]

3 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Hot does not equate to third degree burns. You're aware the woman who was burned had to go the hospital and get a skin graft right? It was a life threatening condition. That's not the expectation for when you spill coffee, the expectation is that you'll have a grumpy morning and stain your pants.

She didn't spill it though, she had the damn thing between her legs in a moving car and tried to open it to put sugar in, and squeezed the contents on herself. That's what caused such bad burns, the whole cup sitting there and soaking in not a bit of a spill. I've dropped boiling water on myself, instant noodle pot about 30 seconds after pouring boiled water in it. Yes it damn well hurt but as I was able to move the whole lot didn't soak into my pants. Brief contact doesn't cause 3rd degree burns, I'd have no finger tips left if it did.

[Fasauceome]

6 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

she had the damn thing between her legs in a moving car

See, people keep misrepresenting the details, and you bought into the narrative put out my McDonald's. The car was not moving, it was parked.

 

6 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

tried to open it to put sugar in, and squeezed the contents on herself. That's what caused such bad burns, the whole cup sitting there and soaking in not a bit of a spill.

It was not the whole cup at all, it was a small amount, even though yes, it was squeezed out. You think she didn't go for napkins? She just sat there burning until she had an issue? 

 

You clearly are not familiar with the details of the event, but claim such things about it, like most people do. The idea that Americans constantly put forth frivolous lawsuits is a narrative that big corporations have been circulating for years to de legitimize lawsuits against them to retain their public image.

[Curious Pineapple]

23 hours ago, fasauceome said:

See, people keep misrepresenting the details, and you bought into the narrative put out my McDonald's. The car was not moving, it was parked.

 

It was not the whole cup at all, it was a small amount, even though yes, it was squeezed out. You think she didn't go for napkins? She just sat there burning until she had an issue? 

 

You clearly are not familiar with the details of the event, but claim such things about it, like most people do. The idea that Americans constantly put forth frivolous lawsuits is a narrative that big corporations have been circulating for years to de legitimize lawsuits against them to retain their public image.

"Liebeck, 79 years old at the time of the incident, was injured when her grandson stopped so that she could add cream and sugar to the coffee. She placed the cup of coffee between her legs and attempted to remove the lid. Unfortunately, she spilled the entire liquid contents onto her lap. The sweatpants that Liebeck was wearing absorbed the hot liquid and held it next to the skin of her thighs. She suffered full thickness burns to her thighs, buttocks, groin and genital area amounting to what the surgeons described as six percent of her total body surface area."

 

More than a small amount. 80 years old so not exactly the freshest healthiest skin, held there by sweatpants and moving car or not, you don't put a hot liquid between your legs.

 

<content removed>

Edited May 3, 2019 by SansVarnic

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

moving car or not, you don't put a hot liquid between your legs.

Again, the point is that while hot, it's not expected to deliver burns like this. Also, there was an enormous amount of complaints about burns, while this was the first landmark case, other costumers suffered this issue. Clearly the courts agreed that this woman could not have expected the coffee to be so dangerous, why on Earth do you?

[Drak3]

23 hours ago, Curious Pineapple said:

in a moving car

False. The car was parked.

 

23 hours ago, Curious Pineapple said:

More than a small amount.

Irrelevant. The product was dangerous when used as intended.

 

<content removed>

Edited May 3, 2019 by SansVarnic

[Chett_Manly]

The argument seems to be that Tesla should have prevented the driver error, as the driver made the error in trusting Tesla's system, a system that Tesla specifically tells drivers not to trust as the driver here did, and has measures in place to attempt to get them to take this seriously.

 

 

 

Based on the data we have, I cannot accept that argument. It is the driver that was negligent in causing the crash, not Tesla. He was being inattentive, he had full visibility, every chance to correct the car. He failed to do so.

 

But that crash, while being the drivers fault, would not have been fatal if not for the negligence of the CA DOT. They know for a fact that area is prone to crashes and needed the guard, after having the last one crashed into, and their negligence in failing to replace it was a chief factor in the drivers death. He would be alive today if they had simply done their job.

 

I'd award the family $0 from Tesla, and $5M from CA.

 

 

[MMKing]

The entire case is complete and utter nonsense. The person driving the vehicle should not have had a licence to begin with. As long as the Tesla system did not work against the driver in any way, i just don't see it. In fact, the inheritance money should be spent to pay for the damages to the road, and the associated expenses that went into clearing the road after he, through negligence, crashed his car.

 

Imagine me driving along with one finger on my steering wheel. Normally, this is fine. But then the power steering breaks. The car warns me of this repeatedly, the manufacturer assured me minimal force was needed on the steering wheel. I can feel the steering wheel getting harder to turn. But instead of bringing both my hands on the steering wheel like a sane person, i crash my car and kill myself. Damaging road, other vehicles and even other people in the process.

 

My family then sues the car company. Even though i could have brought both my hands on the wheel, and driven the car safely for hundreds of miles. It's bullshit. Things break and malfunction. Tesla's system did not cause a crash. The driver was negligent.