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AlexTheGreatish

Why you shouldn't water cool your PC

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a i r c o o l i n g m a s t e r r a c e 

 

 

or custom loops


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whip and nae nae

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13 minutes ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

 

Air Coolers > AIO Liquid Coolers


Primary PC:

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CPU: Intel® Xeon® X5675 @ 4.62 GHz 1.4V Motherboard: ASUS P6X58-E WS (BCLK: 201 MHz) CPU Cooler: NZXT HAVIK 140 & Noctua NA-SRC10 RAM: Crucial DDR3-1606 8-11-11-28 (2x4GB) GPU: ASUS GeForce® GTX 770 DirectCU II 2GB (Core Clock: 1250 MHz, Memory Clock: 3505 MHz) SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" 1TB (W10 Pro) HDD: WD Green 3.5" 1TB (7.2K RPM) PSU: Corsair AX860i & White CableMod ModFlex™ Cables Case: Fractal Design Meshify C TG (White) Fans: Intake: 1x Dynamic X2 GP-12, Exhaust: 1x Dynamic X2 GP-12 Monitor: Samsung S24D390 23.4" 1080p 60Hz 250 nit PLS (OC'd to 75Hz) Keyboard: Logitech G710+ (Cherry MX Browns) Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse Pad: Steelseries QcK Racing Wheel: Logitech G27 & Six-Speed Shifter Audio: Bose SoundSport In-Ear Headphones (Charcoal) CPU-Z

Primary Laptop:

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Model: Apple MacBook Pro 13" 2019 (Silver, Touch Bar, 2x TB3 Ports) CPU: Intel® Core™ i5-8257U @ 1.4 GHz RAM: LPDDR3-2133 (8GB) GPU: Intel® Iris® Plus Graphics 645 SSD: NVME PCIe 256GB Display: 13.3" 2560x1600 60Hz 500 nit IPS Battery: 58.2 Wh dbrand Skins: Trackpad (White Marble) & Palmrest (Hyperblack Titanium) Audio: Apple AirPods Pro

Secondary PC:

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CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-950 @ 3.07 GHz 1.2V Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R (BCLK: 135 MHz) CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro Series™ H50 RAM: Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 8-8-8-20 (3x2GB) & Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3-1600 8-8-8-20 (1x4GB) GPU: ATI Radeon™ HD 5850 1GB (Core Clock: 725 MHz, Memory Clock: 1000 MHz) SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" 1TB (W10 Pro) PSU: HP 500W Unit Case: Corsair 100R Monitor: LG 24GL600F 23.6" 1080p 144Hz 300 nit TN FreeSync CPU-Z

Secondary Laptop:

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Model: ASUS ROG G750JW CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-4700HQ @ 3.4 GHz RAM: DDR3-1600 11-11-11-28 (3x4GB) GPU: NVIDIA GeForce® GTX 765M SSD: SanDisk SSD Plus 2.5" 120GB (W10 Pro) HDD: Toshiba 2.5" 750GB (5.4K RPM) Display: 17.3" 1080p 60Hz 350 nit TN Monitor: Dell E2418HN 24" 1080p 60Hz 250 nit IPS Battery: 88 Wh Mouse: Logitech MK235 Audio: Beats Studio3 Wireless (Midnight Black)

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I'm planning on water cooling in the future with a good AIO (mainly for aesthetics) but first i will get a riser cable so if the thing ever leaks it won't touch my expensive hof card and goes straight to the psu which will have its fan pointed downwards towards a dust filtered case opening.  Altho i don't have experience with AIO so idk how solid this plan is.

 

Until then my Noctua will hold the ground on my 9900K


Current, New System

 

Mobo: MSI MEG Z390 Godlike // CPU: i9-9900K // GPU: Galax Hall of Fame RTX 2080 Ti // RAM: 32GB Vengeance LPX // Cooling: D15S with 3 Noctua Fans // Storage: 1TB SSD Samsung 860 EVO, 6TB Seagate Barracuda PRO // PSU: RMi 850w 80+ Gold // Case: TT View 37 RGB Edition

 

Old System (Now Retired)

 

Mobo: Asus B85M-E // CPU: i7-4770K // GPU: Gigabyte G1 1070 // RAM: 16GB Single Channel // Cooling: Stock Intel // Storage: 167 GB SDD OCZ Agility3, 2 TB Seagate Barracuda // PSU: AeroCool Strike X 800w 80+ Silver // Case: Corsair SPEC-03 Blue LED Mid-Tower

 

Peripherals And Others

 

Mouse: Razer Mamba Tournament Edition // Keyboard: Razer Blackwidow X Chroma Mercury White // Headphone: Razer Man'O War 7.1 // Display: LG 2560x1080 25' 60Hz Ultrawide // UPS: Pure Sine Wave, Online Topology 3000VA (2100w) (this shit is heavy as fuck)

 

- Previously ReggieGRS

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17 minutes ago, Zando Bob said:

a i r c o o l i n g m a s t e r r a c 

Hyper 212 master race


I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

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Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

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2 minutes ago, ReggieGRS said:

I'm planning on water cooling in the future with a good AIO (mainly for aesthetics) but first i will get a riser cable so if the thing ever leaks it won't touch my expensive hof card and goes straight to the psu which will have its fan pointed downwards towards a dust filtered case opening.  Altho i don't have experience with AIO so idk how solid this plan is.

 

Until then my Noctua will hold the ground on my 9900K

AIO

Aesthetics

 

You gotta pick one. AIO's look terrible in comparison to a custom loop with a transparent waterblock.


CPU: Ryzen 5 2600 4ghz @ 1.35v  CPU Cooler: Mugen 5 Rev b  Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon  GPU: Zotac RTX 2060 +150/+1000 Memory: 16GB Viper 4 @ 3200 CL14 Samsung B-die  Storage: 1TB Patriot VPN100 NVMe; 500GB 860evo; 128gb 840pro CaseCooler Master Q500L  PSU: CX750M V2 Operating System: Windows 10 Pro Other: 6 Corsair LL Fans; 2 aRGB Strips

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My NH-D15 is dead quiet on the air cooling murderer that is the FX9590. Despite all the threats I've had on forums telling me 'Get water cooling or your house will burn down' the Noctua gets the job done and gets it done amazingly well. Been going nearly 2 years and not a single hiccup yet.

 

Since then, other than maybe ram compatibility (You can still move the second fan upwards or remove it altogether), I just don't see a reason to get a water cooler.

 

Join Team Noctua and don't look back!

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Thanks for the testing Alex.

 

Many new builders always want to go AIO because they're "just better". This video will surely help inform some about the advantages and drawbacks of each cooling solution.


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Uh oh, all the water cooling fanboys aren't going to like this....

 

Not only is JAY saying that water cooling isn't any better than air cooling, but now Linus too? Oh my goodness. 

 

Air cooling is BETTER and QUIETER. Looks like water cooling just lost the only thing it had going for it. 

 

And they didn't even use the de-facto air cooler that we all say is great (the D15). 

 

Also, what WASN'T mentioned in the video is that while the greater heat capacity of the water cooled system does in fact absorb spikes of heat slightly better, it ALSO means that it'll take longer to cool down, meaning the fans will be running at higher rpms for longer after you shut your game down. 

 

So, in summary. Water cooling is

 

  • Worse than air cooling
  • Louder than air cooling
  • More dangerous than air cooling (dirty water + electronics = not good)
  • Introduces more single points of failure than air cooling
  • Significantly more expensive than air cooling
  • Not as repairable/long lasting as air cooling
  • Requires more maintenance than air cooling

 

Can we delegate water cooling to the likes of RGB yet? 

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28 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Hyper 212 master race

Arctic Freezer 33 Gods Race > filthy 212 peasants


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I was hoping that they would test the NH-D15.... Oh well....


In search of the future, new tech, and exploring the universe! All under the cover of anonymity!

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I've always figured that air cooling is the "serious user's choice" simply because it's more cost-efficient and it can't destroy your computer if it malfunctions.

 

I mean, hell, unless Noctua decides to be a dick and stop supporting older cooler models with new brackets and nobody else comes up with an alternative, I can totally see myself using my NH-U14S for the rest of my life. 

 

After this and Jayz's videos, however, I'm genuinely wondering if all that talk about the better cooling performance of water may be a marketing ploy. 


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+ four different mechanical drives.

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We should ban 120mm AiO's from the market.

 

"Oh but SFF builds!" - Still rather use one of these two:

Spoiler

Best-Low-Profile-CPU-Cooler.jpg

There are far too many arguments why 120mm / 240mm AiO's are worse picks for common builds vs good air coolers: lower price, performance, acoustics, less points of failure, no chances to kill other hardware... the more big names like LTT can help spread this truth the better... I see it as a service to the PC community against marketing gimmicks.


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Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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I don't recall it being mentioned in the video, but were multiple mounts done of each cooler to try and remove any variation due to the particular TIM application?

I'm quiet happy with my D15, but I thought it was just because I'm a grumble that remembers back when the copper TRUE was the best air cooler around...

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AIOs do not qualify as water-cooling IMO.


9900K  / Asus Maximus Formula XI / 32Gb G.Skill RGB 4266mHz / 1TB Samsung 970 Evo / EVGA 980ti FE.

2 loops : XSPC EX240 + 2x RX360 (CPU + VRMs) / EK Supremacy Evo & RX360 (GPU) / EK FCWB. D5 pumps / EK Res

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1 hour ago, corrado33 said:

Uh oh, all the water cooling fanboys aren't going to like this....

 

Not only is JAY saying that water cooling isn't any better than air cooling, but now Linus too? Oh my goodness. 

 

Air cooling is BETTER and QUIETER. Looks like water cooling just lost the only thing it had going for it. 

 

And they didn't even use the de-facto air cooler that we all say is great (the D15). 

 

Also, what WASN'T mentioned in the video is that while the greater heat capacity of the water cooled system does in fact absorb spikes of heat slightly better, it ALSO means that it'll take longer to cool down, meaning the fans will be running at higher rpms for longer after you shut your game down. 

 

So, in summary. Water cooling is

 

  • Worse than air cooling
  • Louder than air cooling
  • More dangerous than air cooling (dirty water + electronics = not good)
  • Introduces more single points of failure than air cooling
  • Significantly more expensive than air cooling
  • Not as repairable/long lasting as air cooling
  • Requires more maintenance than air cooling

 

Can we delegate water cooling to the likes of RGB yet? 

Closed Loop Coolers, yes. Custom loops have a lot less of the disadvantages, and can outperform air in the performance and noise departments, depending on how you build them. They also add some disadvantages though, like having to actually put them together yourself. 


X58-X79-X99-X299 lads: Intel HEDT Xeon/i7 Megathread - Murica (But International) Parrot Gang

 

Big Rig (Done) - (Main Rig) - i7 5960X @ 4.7Ghz/3.7Ghz core/uncore - Custom Loop: 2x 360GTS with EK-ZMT/Stubbies and EK D5 pump/res combo - EVGA X99 Classified - 32GB (4x8GB) HyperX Predator DDR4 @ 3200MHz CL16 XMP - AMD Radeon VII (best TimeSpy so far: here) - 1TB 970 Evo - Corsair RM1000i - Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX TG - 6x iPPC NF-F12 2000 

X79 Rig (Done) - (Alt Rig 1)- i7 4930K @ 4.5GHz - EVGA CLC 280 w/NF-P14s fans - EVGA X79 Dark - 16GBGB (4x4GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 @ 1600Mhz CL9 XMP - EVGA GTX 1660 Ti XC Ultra - MX500 1TB - 2x Seagate Barracuda Compute 2TB - EVGA 1000W G3 w/CableMod PRO Carbon cables - Phanteks P400 (White) - NF-P12

 

X58 Rig (Done) - (Alt Rig 2) - Xeon X5675 @ 4.4/3.7 core/uncore- NH-D15S - EVGA X58 Classified SLI 4-Way - 24GB (3x8GB) HyperX Savage Red DDR3 @ 1750Mhz CL9-10-10-27 - 2x EVGA Classified 780s - 120GB HyperX SSD - EVGA 1600W T2 - Corsair 750D - 5x iPPC NF-A14 3000 PWM

 

2019 13" rMBP (i5/8GB/256GB) {work} - 2012 13" MBP (i5/16GB/525GB) {mine} - iPhone 11 Pro Max + Apple Watch S3 42mm - iPod Classic 6G 80GB running Rockbox + iPod Classic 5.5G Enhanced 30GB also on Rockbox - iPhone X - iPhone 4S on iOS 6.1.3

 

whip and nae nae

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1 hour ago, corrado33 said:

Also, what WASN'T mentioned in the video is that while the greater heat capacity of the water cooled system does in fact absorb spikes of heat slightly better,

It was, near the end. Linus called it thermal mass instead of heat capacity.

 

1 hour ago, corrado33 said:

it ALSO means that it'll take longer to cool down, meaning the fans will be running at higher rpms for longer after you shut your game down. 

This is a good thing, because it means the fans don't ramp up and down constantly when you open or close applications rapidly.

In fact many fan controllers and motherboards implement hysteresis to do exactly that.

 

1 hour ago, corrado33 said:
  • Worse than air cooling
  • Louder than air cooling
  • More dangerous than air cooling (dirty water + electronics = not good)
  • Introduces more single points of failure than air cooling
  • Significantly more expensive than air cooling
  • Not as repairable/long lasting as air cooling
  • Requires more maintenance than air cooling

 

This only applies to AIOs.

With a custom loop you can expand it to have much larger surface area, which means better performance, lower noise, or both.

 

The main benefit of water cooling IMO is looks.

Air coolers just don't look special at all, just a big square in the middle of your PC like some sort of growth :P


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Why pay more when you can get Wraith Prism with R G B for free?


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2 hours ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

AIO water coolers seem to be all the rage, but we're here to tell you that big air coolers are where it's at.  Probably.

 

Buy a NH-U12A
On Amazon: https://geni.us/9xIfzT
On Newegg: https://geni.us/oF1ydNC

 

Ok so i agree with pritty much everything you said, however...

 

I have to point out that while you done your best to keep the playing field level so to speak, you missed out one thing. Fans

 

You tested an AIO vs a Air cooler, now granted you could say you tested 'out of the box' coolers, which is fine, but that means your also testing fans and that has to be noted in the results, which you didnt note.

 

If you want to test AIO vs Air, then imo you should have taken out as many variables as possible which includes the fans since they are most certainly something people often switch out.

 

If it were me, i would have used the Noctua fans on both the AIO's and the Air heatsinks. That way its down purely to the heatsink vs the Pump+rad unit.

 

Your results could not only be down to the whole AIO vs Air cooler thing, but also a comparison between the Corsair fans and the Noctua fans, Since your using Noise as a point of testing, the difference in performance could be down to the Corsair fans being louder and as such not able to spin up as fast and thus cool as well.  The point of the video (as far as im aware) however isnt a comparison of fans, but rather Air vs AIO.

 

 


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Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad P/P |

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17 minutes ago, Enderman said:

This is a good thing, because it means the fans don't ramp up and down constantly when you open or close applications rapidly.

In fact many fan controllers and motherboards implement hysteresis to do exactly that.

Yes... by a matter of seconds. I sent mine to 5-10 seconds depending on the position of the fan. By contrast, a radiator capable of dissipating 400W of heat continuously will still need to dissipate 4.18 kJ/degree C (assuming 1L of coolant). That translates to roughly 1000 Ws, meaning your radiator will take 2.5 seconds to cool the coolant by 1 degree, assuming your fans are running on full blast. Considering my CPU drops from 75 to 40 in say... 10 seconds. I think it's going to be... much longer for a water cooled machine. To be exact, I'd say it'll take 87.5 seconds, ignoring the inefficiencies gained when the coolant temperature is close to the ambient temperature of course, and assuming your fans are running full blast constantly. 

 

17 minutes ago, Enderman said:

This only applies to AIOs.

With a custom loop you can expand it to have much larger surface area, which means better performance, lower noise, or both.

Says who? Is there a video somewhere that shows a custom loop with a 240 mm rad is better than an AIO with a 360 mm rad? And at what cost? Hundreds of dollars? A decent block ALONE is at least a hundred dollars. Not to mention the radiator(s), fans, fittings, piping, bending tools, time... For what.... looks? Eh, definitely relegated to the realm of RGB. 

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