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nicklmg

Macs are SLOWER than PCs. Here’s why.

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2 hours ago, r2724r16 said:

LMG, including Linus, thinks that benchmarks and temperatures are what determine if a laptop is good or not.

 

They, and a lot of tech enthusiasts, don't realize that most people don't care about Cinebench scores and thermal throttling.

 

Most people (non-techies) prioritize build quality, battery life, screen, and "speed" (as in storage) in laptops.

That's because the general public doesn't care about benchmarks, but rather the actual experience of using the laptop.

 

There's certainly a reason why MacBooks sell like crazy (at their insane price points).

 

And yet, most techies refuse to accept the reason for this and instead opt to call the general public ignorant.

DING DING DING someone with some common sense. In any other market in the world the company would be PRAISED for catering to their customers as apple has done with it's computers. But no, here they're criticized because the computer can't do what some techies want it to do. 

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4 hours ago, r2724r16 said:

 temperatures are what determine if a laptop is good or not.

Temperatures in laptops are a HUGE aspect to the usability of a laptop.

 

4 hours ago, r2724r16 said:

And yet, most techies refuse to accept the reason for this and instead opt to call the general public ignorant.

This is also rather ignorant. Mac, and OSX, are far from the only offerings that offer the experience they do. Lines like the HP Spectre and Dell XPS share the same experience.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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I used windows for years. From the early 90’s to now. 

 

I do do prefer the simplicity and user friendliness of Mac OS. 

 

Its just a tool to me. I don’t care about customisation or writing code or anything like that. I just want to turn it on and work. 

 

The editing software I use works on it. Microsoft office works on it. 

 

It is just fine for my use case. 

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21 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Temperatures in laptops are a HUGE aspect to the usability of a laptop.

I disagree. Temperatures might make a difference to reliability and durability, but certainly not usability.

21 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

This is also rather ignorant. Mac, and OSX, are far from the only offerings that offer the experience they do. Lines like the HP Spectre and Dell XPS share the same experience.

One of my friends has an XPS 9570 (8750H, 1050 Ti, 32GB of RAM, 1TB PCIe SSD). And believe me when I say the MB Pro and the XPS aren't even in the same ballpark.

 

Sure, the XPS might have a nice screen (1080p, 400 nits) and good build quality. But MacBooks have way nicer screens (16:10, 500 nits IIRC) and better build quality.

 

And of course, MacBooks offer OS X (which you may or may not like), so it's hard to compare them directly with the XPS lineup.


Primary Desktop PC: Intel® Xeon® X5675 @ 4.62 GHz 1.4V || NZXT HAVIK 140 & Noctua NA-SRC10 || ASUS P6X58-E WS || Crucial DDR3-1606 8-11-11-28 (2x4GB) || ASUS STRIX GTX 770 || Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5" SSD || WD Green 1TB 3.5" HDD (7.2K RPM) || Fractal Design Meshify C TG (White) || Corsair AX860i & White CableMod ModFlex™ Cables || Logitech G710+ (Cherry MX Browns) || Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum || Logitech G27 Racing Wheel || Samsung 23.6" 1080p 60Hz PLS (OC'd to 75Hz) || CPU-Z Validation

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1 minute ago, r2724r16 said:

Temperatures might make a difference to reliability and durability, but certainly not usability.

That is incorrect. Unlike desktops, laptops not being able to adequately dissipate heat directly hurts usability. The MacBooks can very easily get hot enough to not be viable as a "lapable" computer.

 

2 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

MB Pro and the XPS aren't even in the same ballpark.

Yes, they are.

 

3 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

MacBooks have way nicer screens

Not really, the XPS lineup has very accurate screens, and moving from 400 to 500 nits doesn't mean much without knowing how each company gets their number.

 

Also, 16:10 v 16:9 is more personal preference.

8 minutes ago, r2724r16 said:

better build quality.

No, far from it. Macs only use designs associated with quality (not indicative of). Looking at the thermal solution and keyboard tells one that Apple does not deliver what fanbois promise in the build quality department.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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Just now, Drak3 said:

That is incorrect. Unlike desktops, laptops not being able to adequately dissipate heat directly hurts usability. The MacBooks can very easily get hot enough to not be viable as a "lapable" computer.

Let's be honest, most MB users are not "power users" and won't stress a MB to the point at which it becomes too hot to place on their lap. And almost all laptops (including the XPS) get hot under load, maybe not to the same degree (no pun intended) as the MB.

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not really, the XPS lineup has very accurate screens, and moving from 400 to 500 nits doesn't mean much without knowing how each company gets their number.

 

Also, 16:10 v 16:9 is more personal preference.

16:10 > 16:9 for obvious reasons

500 nits > 400 nits for obvious reasons

 

Even if the numbers are slightly off, the MB screen is still better than the XPS screen.

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, far from it. Macs only use designs associated with quality (not indicative of). Looking at the thermal solution and keyboard tells one that Apple does not deliver what fanbois promise in the build quality department.

I'll admit, as an Apple fanboy, that the MB keyboard is a bit of a disappointment. That being said, I don't think the "bad" thermal solution is a big deal.

 

But aside from all of this, MBs have good battery life, a nice form factor, and fast storage.

 

Just take a look at these two links: (MB Pro 2018), (XPS 15 9570)

 

The MB has 2250 reviews and the XPS has 1384 reviews. And also notice that the MB is rated 4.8/5 and the XPS is rated 3.7/5. There must be a reason for that. Apple is very good at marketing, and no matter what techies say, MB sales aren't going down anytime soon.


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1 minute ago, r2724r16 said:

won't stress a MB to the point at which it becomes too hot to place on their lap.

It doesn't take much. I can do it playing a game like West of Loathing, which isn't demanding, or running Excel.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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1 hour ago, weallhatethemods said:

Actually it does. Stupid people do stupid things. I'm surprised the percentage isn't higher actually.

 

OS X is a joke, that is basic fact. Pretending that is better than Win 10, is complete nonsense, but hey what else would you expect from an Apple fanboy.

 

Yup, people are stupid... Doesn't mean that I have to even acknowledge their existence, let alone actually listen to the fools.

at least MacOS manages to get all the settings into one place. and somehow Apple has figured out how to make 7-8 year old devices useable. Try using a Windows machine from 2011 and let me know how that goes...

 

 

I don't think MacOS is that great, I just think windows sucks. as someone who has to support both devices, Windows machines (no exaggeration) have 10x the number of issues the Macs do.

 

I want to switch to Linux to avoid both evils.


I drive a Honda, but i'm a Toyota boy at heart.

I use Apple products, and I like it.

Spoiler

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3 minutes ago, FuzzyYellow said:

Try using a Windows machine from 2011 and let me know how that goes...

Not remotely as bad as you make it sound.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Not remotely as bad as you make it sound.

If ya say so. 😉


I drive a Honda, but i'm a Toyota boy at heart.

I use Apple products, and I like it.

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i7-2820QM GPU: Intel HD3000/Radeon HD6750M RAM: 12GB(4GB Crucial, 8GB PNY) MOBO: Apple A1286 PSU: Apple MagSafe MONITOR: 1680x1050 CHASSIS: MacBook Pro 15 (Early 2011) A1286

 

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26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It doesn't take much. I can do it playing a game like West of Loathing, which isn't demanding, or running Excel.

 In Mac OS or boot camp windows? 

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1 minute ago, William Payne said:

 In Mac OS or boot camp windows? 

Either.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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17 hours ago, FuzzyYellow said:

at least MacOS manages to get all the settings into one place. and somehow Apple has figured out how to make 7-8 year old devices useable. Try using a Windows machine from 2011 and let me know how that goes...

I'm using a Windows machine from about 10 years ago. Works perfectly fine, doesn't thermal throttle under 100% load and as of about 2 weeks ago was 9th in the CB20 rankings.

 

But yeh, completely useless and nowhere near as powerful as the 2011 Mac Mini behind me that in no way overheats and turns off randomly when under high load like video encoding, that thing it was "designed" to do. I could compare it to the fantastic 2011(ish) iMac that isn't in pieces with a failed power supply and failed display which is not a comon fault with that model at all. In no way is my "house brand" Advent 5511 laptop working perfectly fine with Windows 10 whilst a 2006 Macbook Pro next to it needs a new power supply because that didn't overheat and fail at all, nor did the battery pack prematurely fail rendering the machine next to useless in case the "brilliant" magsafe connector gets so much as sneezed on.

 

Only Apple products here that still work properly are a G3 iMac and an iPhone 3G, everything else has problems related to form over function design. Even my iPod classic has failed with a faulty DAC so it only works connected to my car radio through USB now (another not common fault).

 

But as you said, this dual CPU workstation from 10 years ago isn't worth powering on. I may as well throw it out the window and use the Mini.

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So i could not respond on my thread since it was locked ( https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1059159-macs-are-slower-ltt-video-discussion/?tab=comments#comment-12522144 ) but to address some of the responses:

 

1 comparing I.T. denial to Christians think God is murder is a ridicules association and i have ignored it.

 

2 Real-World performance does not always relate back to simulated tests or benches i mean thunderbolt 3 is advertised at 40 Gbps, i highly doubt anyone can get those speeds exactly in day-to-day use or in a work context unless in very specific circumstances.

 

3 Insurance IS NOT WARRANTY.

 

4 If people have the money to spend thousands on a Mac that 'under delivers' they also have the money to purchase another rig. Also, programmers and graphic designers (decent ones anyway) will know what specs to go for in a computer.

 

5 This whole video is only true IF the context in which the Mac is being used for [INSERT MISSION CRITICAL WORK HERE] possibly might not care that much waiting an extra min or two for the computer to crunch the numbers. As a programmer, i have spoken to many other professional programmers that prefer code to compile slower when they are done to ensure the conversion to third gen languages to Machine code is more efficient.

 

Perfect example is Java to ByteCode.

 

6 Macs are only considered 'vintage' and 'obsolete' after 5 years so if a pro user has not upgraded in 5 years then they are believing a false lie. spending 1 - 6k on a fully spec Mac that is not an i9 is not that bad of an investment considering the aforementioned sentence IF the work it is being used for generates enough income to upgrade it if needed.

 

Sincerely,

 

JTAG

 

 

 

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Primary Desktop PC: Intel® Xeon® X5675 @ 4.62 GHz 1.4V || NZXT HAVIK 140 & Noctua NA-SRC10 || ASUS P6X58-E WS || Crucial DDR3-1606 8-11-11-28 (2x4GB) || ASUS STRIX GTX 770 || Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5" SSD || WD Green 1TB 3.5" HDD (7.2K RPM) || Fractal Design Meshify C TG (White) || Corsair AX860i & White CableMod ModFlex™ Cables || Logitech G710+ (Cherry MX Browns) || Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum || Logitech G27 Racing Wheel || Samsung 23.6" 1080p 60Hz PLS (OC'd to 75Hz) || CPU-Z Validation

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:17 AM, Drak3 said:

This is also rather ignorant. Mac, and OSX, are far from the only offerings that offer the experience they do.

tell me about an OS that's as polished, user-friendly and privacy respecting as macOS is. 


Pansexual | Apple Fanboy | Linux Wizard | IT Student | MLP Fan

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Just now, firelighter487 said:

tell me about an OS that's as polished, user-friendly and privacy respecting as macOS is. 

Windows 7.

TrueOS.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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Just now, Drak3 said:

Windows 7.

sure let's go back to the Stone Age. Windows 7 is soon to be EOL, it's not privacy respecting. it is a polished OS though I'll give it that.

 

TrueOS I've never used, in fact I haven't used BSD at all but I assume it would be a nightmare to get basically anything to work. also the fact their website is down at the moment tells me it's not gonna be a polished experience. 


Pansexual | Apple Fanboy | Linux Wizard | IT Student | MLP Fan

JUST BE YOURSELF

 

Gaming Rig: Phenom X4 955 | R9 290X | RX460 | 12GB RAM | 250GB + 500GB SSD | 850W PSU | Windows & Manjaro

Laptop: MacBook Pro | I5 3210M | HD4000 | 1TB SSD | 16GB RAM | macOS

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Just now, firelighter487 said:

Windows 7 is soon to be EOL

And? Still as functional as Mojave.

 

1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

in fact I haven't used BSD at al

OSX is a BSD derivative.

 

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

it's not privacy respecting

It's as privacy respecting as OSX.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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Just now, Drak3 said:

And? Still as functional as Mojave.

umm no. 

 

Just now, Drak3 said:

OSX is a BSD derivative.

that's like comparing an apple to an orange and saying they are both fruits and therefore the same. 

 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

It's as privacy respecting as OSX.

no it isn't. in 2015 Microsoft made it collect more data. 

source: https://www.infoworld.com/article/2979054/windows-7-8-10-now-all-collecting-user-data-for-microsoft.html


Pansexual | Apple Fanboy | Linux Wizard | IT Student | MLP Fan

JUST BE YOURSELF

 

Gaming Rig: Phenom X4 955 | R9 290X | RX460 | 12GB RAM | 250GB + 500GB SSD | 850W PSU | Windows & Manjaro

Laptop: MacBook Pro | I5 3210M | HD4000 | 1TB SSD | 16GB RAM | macOS

Phone: iPhone 7 | 128GB | iOS

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2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

umm no.

Yes.

 

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

that's like comparing an apple to an orange and saying they are both fruits and therefore the same. 

Not really. OSX is derived from BSD.

 

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

n 2015 Microsoft made it collect more data. 

Sensationalist/alarmist source aside, yes, Microsoft updated telemetry. No, OSX is not better in the real world in terms of privacy. Maybe on paper.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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Just now, Drak3 said:

Yes.

does Windows 7 have:

- multiple desktops

- touchpad gestures

- a really good free video editor included

- a really good music recording app included

- a great Office suite included

 

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not really. OSX is derived from BSD.

it's very custom and closed source though. 

 

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, OSX is not better in the real world in terms of privacy. Maybe on paper.

source?


Pansexual | Apple Fanboy | Linux Wizard | IT Student | MLP Fan

JUST BE YOURSELF

 

Gaming Rig: Phenom X4 955 | R9 290X | RX460 | 12GB RAM | 250GB + 500GB SSD | 850W PSU | Windows & Manjaro

Laptop: MacBook Pro | I5 3210M | HD4000 | 1TB SSD | 16GB RAM | macOS

Phone: iPhone 7 | 128GB | iOS

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1 minute ago, firelighter487 said:

- touchpad gestures

Yes.

 

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

multiple desktops

Out of the box, Windows 7 does not include this idiotic feature.

 

2 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

- a really good free video editor included

- a really good music recording app included

- a great Office suite included

Having a (shitty) built in app does not mean the other OS is less capable.

 

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

it's very custom and closed source though. 

OSX is Darwin is proprietary packages and file system. OSX is largely open source.

 

5 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

source?

You provided the source. 

Quote

icrosoft’s privacy policy currently notes the company collects “basic information about how you use your programs, your computer or device, and connected devices.” The information sent to Microsoft includes how the devices are set up and performing, as well

What Microsoft collects isn't personally identifying, unless someone already knows that about you.

 

Which defeats the point.

 

Whereas iCloud is also set up to automatically upload data, such as Siri data, notes from the Notes app, and backups.


Yup the yup.

 

Socialism is for figs.

Not supporting the political facade known as "Gay Pride."

 

Pyo.

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