Macs are SLOWER than PCs. Here’s why.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Foxlet said:

but the point is not that they've done it, but that it could be done if they felt like applying that policy.

that applies to any manufacturer then. not just Apple. 

[Foxlet]

2 hours ago, GabenJr said:

The point being, Apple could have largely defanged this critique quite easily with a more aggressive fan curve... But the fans take about a minute to hit maximum speed while the die temperature is hot enough to boil water, and the Core i9 Macbook Pro's launch fiasco proved that they don't have the overhead to ramp the fans up that slowly. That kind of thermal performance is straight-up unacceptable, especially for a professional machine.

What would be interesting to see is, given that the SMC allows sensor access from userland, a daemon that controls the fans based on custom curves and comparing that to a "stock" MacBook Pro.

[corrado33]

48 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

You seem to draw a lot of your arguments from that the majority of Apple users are laymans. Then why Apple makes Macs more as virtual dongle extensions and markets them towards prosumers?

Because it's true..... have you seen a college campus lately? 

 

Because the layman doesn't need a lot of ports and eliminating them makes the computer lighter/smaller? How are you not getting this?

 

And I took a look through apple's site. There is only ONE place on the entire site that markets their computers toward prosumers, and that's on the iMac Pro. Not once is any of the crap mentioned on any other computers advertising page. And really? You want to argue advertisement? Yeah sure that $200 dell laptop will simply be "fast" for a good while, uh hu, yeah, definitely good for your everyday needs, yep, definitely. 

 

You're basing the entirety of YOUR argument on advertising. And yeah, sure, we know advertising is always 100% accurate. /s You must hate just about every product ever then don't you? I'm sure  "the all-new Corolla brings new meaning to fun-to-drive."   Yep, definitely. Because advertising is NEVER exaggerated, EVER. Your arguments don't make sense as you've based them entirely on marketing. 

53 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

I can bet my head on that with $5k you can build a computer that can handle all and every task, for which Apple markets iMac Pro, better and without overheating than iMac Pro and the only real things you loose are design and other comfort features.

This is a moot point as it is true for EVERY SINGLE PREBUILT COMPUTER EVER. ALL PREBUILT COMPUTERS WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN COMPUTERS YOU BUILD YOURSELF. How do you not get that? 

 

 

Yes, as I elaborated on before, apple designed their computer for the person who buys their computers the most. Not the professionals (unfortunately). They design the computers to be as fast as it can be in short spurts, like someone launching a program, or opening a web page. They are not designed to render movies anymore. And no where does there marketing state that. Sure, you'll see "this much faster than last year" but that's the same stuff every year and only due to faster processors

[Drak3]

15 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

And I took a look through apple's site. There is only ONE place on the entire site that markets their computers toward prosumers, and that's on the iMac Pro.

That's wrong. Blatantly wrong.

 

The MacBook Pro markets towards professionals, the graphs used is comparing the new MBPs to the old ones in professional applications. Most features (such as the T2, touchbar, TB3) that get a spotlight are being sold on merit of productivity.

 

The Mac Mini, same thing. Most marketing based around doing work, and the graphs are, again, professional applications.

 

Same for the iMac. And same for the Mac Pro, obviously.

 

Hell, the Macbook and MacBook air are the only two Macs that don't have any meaningful sections focused on productivity and professional use.

[Soppro]

I think they touched on this a little bit, but Intel shares part of the blame as well. Apple developed this generation of MBP's likely on the premise that Intel would have their 10nm chips out that'd have better power efficiency, but instead they got CPUs that generate even more heat and require more power (looking at you 8950HK). Whether or not Apple will actually switch to its own chips remains to be seen, but it's looking more likely than ever if Intel don't get their more power efficient chips rolling out anytime soon. 

[Firewrath9]

3 hours ago, corrado33 said:

4. As if other companies have never lied to customers hahahahahaha folding phone hahahahahaha

Just becuase they do doesn't mean they should. Lots of people are murderers, does that excuse you?

[Firewrath9]

3 hours ago, corrado33 said:

3. ??? Are you talking about the iMac pro stuff? I saw that as more of a "this is a brand new computer and we haven't shipped out replacement parts yet."

Lets say you open up your computer to do an SSD swap oh wait bye bye warranty

Oh, and apple requires AASP, and they need to pay apple "fees" to be an AASP.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

this the best "clickbait" I have ever seen!

I havent watch the video, coz linus cant be wrong! 

I will take that as fact, macs are slow. 

 

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

I feel unwelcome when a community is constantly fed Apple hate

Its not apple hate, its valid criticism.

The Title is a bit clickbait, as always, but have you actually watched the video?

 

 

The Real Problem is Apple Fans defending Apple when they botch something like the Butterfly keyboard, the Fans and any other thing they totally messed up...

There is this Capacitor (C7771?? something like that) in a Model that goes bad and causes Kernel Panic, there is a voltage regulator controller chip that desolders itself and other crap.

 

To prove my point, here a Video:

 

[Stefan Payne]

35 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

that applies to any manufacturer then. not just Apple. 

With any other Company, they get shit if they do something shitty.

With that shit those companys get, there is a remote chance that they are forced

 

Linus criticizes some shit Apple did, that is rather obvious to observe. 

 

What do you think will happen, when people (like Linus) do not criticize the product and defend it instead??

they don't have any incentive to fix the shit they did. And they won't make their products any better!

 

You remember the "you're holding it wrong" incident??

And there's a ton of this stuff going on.

 

So yeah, it is the right thing to do to make these videos and throw shit at apple - not out of malice but with the hope that they improve their products!

And I don't see a malicious intent in that video. Even if I wanted to. I see harsh, valid criticism.

[corrado33]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

That's wrong. Blatantly wrong.

 

The MacBook Pro markets towards professionals, the graphs used is comparing the new MBPs to the old ones in professional applications. Most features (such as the T2, touchbar, TB3) that get a spotlight are being sold on merit of productivity.

 

The Mac Mini, same thing. Most marketing based around doing work, and the graphs are, again, professional applications.

 

Same for the iMac. And same for the Mac Pro, obviously.

 

Hell, the Macbook and MacBook air are the only two Macs that don't have any meaningful sections focused on productivity and professional use.

WHAT DID YOU WANT THEM TO PUT THERE? Safari? Facebook? Chrome? Photos? Just because apple does comparisons vs. it's old hardware means that it is automatically marketed toward prosumers? Where is your logic here? I'm sure the computer DOES run those applications faster, doesn't mean they designed the computer for it. If you'll notice, they also include rise of the tomb raider in there.... yet as we've already stated, macs are not gaming machines. If you would THINK for maybe a few seconds you'd realize that maybe.... just maybe.... apple had the forethought to say "Hm, I wonder what potential applications people could install on here and how their performance compares to last year's models... We should probably only list the ones that'll really tax the CPU and GPU (if there is one) otherwise the speed will be about the same." But noo... that's too much forethought, better to read into it what YOU want to believe. 

 

Find me any sentence on apple's website, not on the iMac pro page that says that they're build for "prosumers." Please. YOU are applying what YOU want to believe to further YOUR agenda. I can read into the data too. Man that asus computer must be build only for powerpoint and excel because that's all they showed in the pictures. 

 

At least their comparisons are RELEVANT. Let's take freaking asus for example.

 

https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Desktop/D820MT/

 

A comparison of DDR4 vs DDR3? A comparison of USB3.1 vs USB3 vs USB2? What are we... in 2013? 

[corrado33]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

And I don't see a malicious intent in that video. Even if I wanted to. I see harsh, valid criticism.

Where's the "harsh valid criticism" for the samsung fold? 

 

And saying the criticism is valid? Linus criticized the new mac mini, a MASSIVE step up vs the last one, because it was "hard to take apart." Involving all of maybe 6 screws and a plastic wedge. Wow.... real hard.... That's not what I call valid criticism, that's what I call "looking for shit to claim is bad." 

[corrado33]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Its not apple hate, its valid criticism.

The Title is a bit clickbait, as always, but have you actually watched the video?

 

 

The Real Problem is Apple Fans defending Apple when they botch something like the Butterfly keyboard, the Fans and any other thing they totally messed up...

There is this Capacitor (C7771?? something like that) in a Model that goes bad and causes Kernel Panic, there is a voltage regulator controller chip that desolders itself and other crap.

 

To prove my point, here a Video:

 

Sure, post the video from the guy who is CLEARLY unbiased and is CLEARLY not crazy and definitely doesn't hate his job or anything. Because throwing a resin bottle across the room as hard as they can is something a totally sane person would do when it doesn't work like they want. Definitely.... /s

 

The capacitor was likely chosen by the accounting team, not by the engineering team. There have been plenty of similar cases for other computers, it's just that windows laptops die so quickly and are so cheap that no one ever cares. You can find instances of this shit ANYWHERE in electronics. Go watch "the signal path" on youtube. He's an electronic's repair person who is... for one... sane... and for two, doesn't hate his job. Then go watch EEVblog, where he occasionally does electronic repairs and often comments on how the accounting team picked shitty capacitors. Widen your horizons and realize that EVERY electronics manufacturing company has these issues occasionally. Even massive names in electronics like HP/Agilent/whatever it's called now. 

 

Here are some words from a razer blade repair person.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/razer-blade-issues-and-resolution.828573/

 

And more...

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Specializing-in-Razer-laptops-enthusiast-repairman-aims-to-fix-what-Razer-can-t.195612.0.html

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, corrado33 said:

Where's the "harsh valid criticism" for the samsung fold? 

Where can I buy the Samsung Fold?

[corrado33]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Where can I buy the Samsung Fold?

Oh yeah, they had to CANCEL THE PLANNED RELEASE because it was so bad. You were SUPPOSED to be able to buy it 2 days ago. 

 

Then they tried to hide it by telling iFixit to take their teardown off the web. No harsh... valid... criticism there?

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, corrado33 said:

The capacitor was likely chosen by the accounting team, not by the engineering team.

See, that's the Problem.

You defend them for for something that don't deserve no defending for no reason...

Just now, corrado33 said:

There have been plenty of similar cases for other computers,

Other computers are cheaper, have a better warranty or if that happens, its known because everyone bashes them for that shit...

Just now, corrado33 said:

it's just that windows laptops die so quickly and are so cheap that no one ever cares.

Now that's just total bullshit and outright FUD.

 

Yeah, this Windows Notebook is cheaper than the Mac stuff: https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-p72-20mb000jge-a1881627.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Or that: https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-p1-20md000sge-a1882905.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Lets take this: https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-extreme-20mf000xge-a1879811.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Or how about a DELL: https://geizhals.de/dell-xps-15-9570-2018-touch-v73rw-a1827351.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

Or another one: https://geizhals.de/dell-xps-13-9380-2019-touch-silber-9380-5538-2ypdj-a1967079.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Or what about a HP: https://geizhals.de/hp-zbook-studio-x360-g5-4qh75ea-abd-a1934239.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

 

Just now, corrado33 said:

You can find instances of this shit ANYWHERE in electronics.

Even over a couple of generation?
Like the broken HDD Cables?
Like the same capacitor going wrong in a later model?

 

Just now, corrado33 said:

Go watch "the signal path" on youtube. He's an electronic's repair person who is... for one... sane... and for two, doesn't hate his job. Then go watch EEVblog, where he occasionally does electronic repairs and often comments on how the accounting team picked shitty capacitors.

...

Those can fail, yes. But not with the regularity that Apple devices fail. Especially the Antenna stuff...

Or the desoldering VRM Controller. You know, the one where they put rubber on top to prevent it from desoldering.

And a ton of other stuff going wrong...

 

 

Then watch that:

 

Just now, corrado33 said:

Widen your horizons and realize that EVERY electronics manufacturing company has these issues occasionally. Even massive names in electronics like HP/Agilent/whatever it's called now. 

It would be a start if you would stop insulting people for pointing out the stuff that Apple does with their units.

Back in the day you'd call it "living of the name"...

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, corrado33 said:

Oh yeah, they had to CANCEL THE PLANNED RELEASE because it was so bad.

Yes, they CANCELED the Release.

Apple would have released it and told you you're doing it wrong.

 

And the Apple fans would eat that shit and bash you when you claim that there is a problem in the design of the device.

Quote

Then they tried to hide it by telling iFixit to take their teardown off the web. No harsh... valid... criticism there?

Why is a Teardown from Vaporware, that was asked to be taken down because its vaporware bad??

[corrado33]

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

You defend them for for something that don't deserve no defending for no reason...

What?

 

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Other computers are cheaper, have a better warranty or if that happens, its known because everyone bashes them for that shit...

Where? Pretty sure apple... dell... hp... etc. all come stock with a 1 year warranty.

 

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Or that: https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-p1-20md000sge-a1882905.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Lets take this: https://geizhals.de/lenovo-thinkpad-x1-extreme-20mf000xge-a1879811.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Or how about a DELL: https://geizhals.de/dell-xps-15-9570-2018-touch-v73rw-a1827351.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

Or another one: https://geizhals.de/dell-xps-13-9380-2019-touch-silber-9380-5538-2ypdj-a1967079.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Or what about a HP: https://geizhals.de/hp-zbook-studio-x360-g5-4qh75ea-abd-a1934239.html?hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl

 

Sure because the average person with a windows laptop has a $4000 one. hahahahahaha Go ahead and google around with those laptops and "repair" behind them in google, you'll find just as many problems. Turns out people don't care about repairing cheap computers, and only complain when they have to repair something expensive. 

 

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Even over a couple of generation?
Like the broken HDD Cables?
Like the same capacitor going wrong in a later model?

Yes, see the above link for the razer repair person.

 

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Those can fail, yes. But not with the regularity that Apple devices fail. Especially the Antenna stuff...

Or the desoldering VRM Controller. You know, the one where they put rubber on top to prevent it from desoldering.

And a ton of other stuff going wrong..

Hmmmm... I wonder if it's because... there are orders of magnitude more apple laptops out there than some random piece of HP electronics equipment? Maybe it's because... oh... I don't know... the people who own these machines don't typically complain online about the problems and rather just get it fixed? Did you ever think that maybe.... just maybe.... you see fewer windows laptop failures because there are just SO.... MANY... OF THEM? Where as there are what? 3 mac laptops, each with a few options? Compared to hundreds of windows laptops with likely similar specifications? 

 

18 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

It would be a start if you would stop insulting people for pointing out the stuff that Apple does with their units.

Back in the day you'd call it "living of the name"...

Insult? Where? Like where I got called a murderer above? Sure, I'm the one insulting people. And no, I refuse to watch the video of a clearly insane/depressed/alcoholic person ramble on about how much he hates his job. Go find someone else who is a bit more rational that does apple repairs. 

[William Payne]

Do you know what I do if I don’t like something?.... I pay no attention to it and just buy something else. 

[corrado33]

Just now, William Payne said:

Do you know what I do if I don’t like something?.... I pay no attention to it and just buy something else. 

But that doesn't get VIEWS!!! You have to COMPLAIN about it so you can setup an echo chamber for millions of 12 year olds who think it's "cool" to do one thing or another. 

[lewdicrous]

Linus needs to review sound dampening material just to reduce the echoes in this thread...

[William Payne]

Well from the repair side of things I live in New Zealand. Down here retailers MUST follow the 3 R’s it is the law and part of the consumer guarantees act. 

 

Repair

Refund

or Replace

 

I made a post earlier about my views on this but it lost in the thread traffic. 

 

Just buy what works for your use case. 

 

If you are a gamer or need windows, stay as far away from from Apple as you can. Same as if you must need to customise. 

 

However if you are like me and don’t have any beef with any particular brand and just view everything as tools that allow me to do work Apple can be just fine. 

 

Depending on what you are doing. 

 

For me it’s all photo, video, audio and that is it. 

 

If I was wanting to game or do 3D cad design or programming or anything else I would just stay with windows. 

 

For me the Apple ecosystem is pretty damn cool. The fact that I can have multiple devices talking to each other is nice. It helps me in my work flow. 

 

Time machine alone is hugely valuable to me. 

 

 

[3 Lions]

7 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

it's not the truth. I'm an apple user and I care more about performance than looks.

So that's one out of how many? 

 

Come on you can't deny the fact that Apple products are the Chelsea tractors of electronic devices. 

[William Payne]

32 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

So that's one out of how many? 

 

Come on you can't deny the fact that Apple products are the Chelsea tractors of electronic devices. 

 

I must have chosen the wrong case for my iPhone X. When you looking at the case you would have no idea what phone it was. Same goes for every case I have had with my iphones. 

[William Payne]

Plus in all honesty a Mac is as much a “look at me” machine as any razer blade or insert other gaming laptop here. 

 

In fact things that LTT slammed the MacBook Pro for not having they slammed the razer blade for having! 

 

This is my gripe. Razer  blades and MacBook pros have different use cases. But sort of sit in the same place price wise and share components such as the cpu. Yet LTT slams Apple for going dedicated thunderbolt 3 yet in a Razer review not long after critiqued Razer for including USB-A ports and not having more thunderbolt 3 or USB-c ports. 

 

Its like whats going on here? Apple gets rid of things and is criticised, but razer and other brands keep things and get criticised for leaving old stuff on and not going innovative with new stuff. 

 

That is what makes me scratch my head. It’s where what’s ok for one is bad for another or the other way around.