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Casper_UK

DRM free question

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I was just wondering on the opinion of others on a discussion I had with a fellow gamer recently, if a developer releases a game drm free, but to play it online you had to have an account to verify you (the gamer) actually purchased the game, would that be classed as the game still having some form of drm embedded, even though the game itself is released as drm free?

 

If the above is true in that yes it is classed as having drm embedded, as a developer is there another way to still have the game released as drm free but with a way to verify gamers actually legally purchased the game

 

The reason I'm asking is, consumers should be given freedom of choice and I fully support drm free (i use gog) but developers also need to ideally be paid a wage for their work, I know gog have proved drm free works too, it's just i'm not sure how their online gog galaxy works.

 

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8 hours ago, Casper_UK said:

if a developer releases a game drm free, but to play it online you had to have an account to verify you (the gamer) actually purchased the game, would that be classed as the game still having some form of drm embedded, even though the game itself is released as drm free?

No

8 hours ago, Casper_UK said:

If the above is true in that yes it is classed as having drm embedded, as a developer is there another way to still have the game released as drm free but with a way to verify gamers actually legally purchased the game

The above is false.

8 hours ago, Casper_UK said:

The reason I'm asking is, consumers should be given freedom of choice and I fully support drm free (i use gog) but developers also need to ideally be paid a wage for their work

They get paid from the consumers.

8 hours ago, Casper_UK said:

i'm not sure how their online gog galaxy works.

GOG Galaxy Support

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2 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

No

The above is false.

They get paid from the consumers.

GOG Galaxy Support

It actually is. It's still DRM if you have to log in online to authenticate. Whether it's through the asstastic Denuvo, or Steam checking your CD key, it's a form of DRM.

 

So there isn't really a way to track who does or does not own it legally, and even with DRM there's still no guarantee. Steam games (with SteamDRM) and Denuvo get cracked in a matter of days.

 

And they get paid by legal purchases. People who pirate weren't going to buy it anyways so technically it doesn't really affect their sales. Although there is a percentage of people that actually do use cracked copies as demos and then purchase the game if they feel it's worth it. That problem could be solved by having games actually have demos instead of enticing people to pay $60 for something that isn't even out and ends up being a shit show, No Mans Sky, Fallout 76, Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda, etc.

 

Gog Galaxy is completely optional. If you download a game through it, for some reason the icon opens the launcher instead of the game. You can retarget the icon to open the game itself if you want. Otherwise... GOG Galaxy might be required for online components. I only say this because Dying Light is the only game I have with multiplayer that's "current" and I think it requires Galaxy. Not sure what if any checks are present at that time. I assume it just tracks your online progress n such.

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DRM is proof that you have paid for something. If you need to log in to play it, then thats DRM. GOG has too DRM of sort, as you need to create account in order to download game installer. Thats only part of DRM they have, and gamers are willing to accept it as GOG usually says its mainly to allow you always to download your installers.


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On 4/24/2019 at 1:22 AM, Casper_UK said:

I was just wondering on the opinion of others on a discussion I had with a fellow gamer recently, if a developer releases a game drm free, but to play it online you had to have an account to verify you (the gamer) actually purchased the game, would that be classed as the game still having some form of drm embedded, even though the game itself is released as drm free?

I'd argue yes, since I feel DRM exists solely as an enforcement method of making sure you actually legally obtained the game somehow, regardless of what the method actually is.

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:22 AM, Casper_UK said:

If the above is true in that yes it is classed as having drm embedded, as a developer is there another way to still have the game released as drm free but with a way to verify gamers actually legally purchased the game

Yes, by removing the check altogether.

 

On 4/24/2019 at 1:22 AM, Casper_UK said:

The reason I'm asking is, consumers should be given freedom of choice and I fully support drm free (i use gog) but developers also need to ideally be paid a wage for their work, I know gog have proved drm free works too, it's just i'm not sure how their online gog galaxy works.

GOG Galaxy is just another way to get your games from your GOG account. So rather than download them from the website, you can download them from the GOG Galaxy client.

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:31 PM, JZStudios said:

It actually is. It's still DRM if you have to log in online to authenticate.

You don't have to log in online to authenticate. Which makes this, "if a developer releases a game drm free, but to play it online you had to have an account to verify you (the gamer) actually purchased the game, would that be classed as the game still having some form of drm embedded, even though the game itself is released as drm free?"... False.

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5 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

You don't have to log in online to authenticate. Which makes this, "if a developer releases a game drm free, but to play it online you had to have an account to verify you (the gamer) actually purchased the game, would that be classed as the game still having some form of drm embedded, even though the game itself is released as drm free?"... False.

Uhh... what? That's a direct contradiction... "You don't have to log in to authenticate" --> "You had to verify you actually purchased the game"

How does one verify a digital purchase without authentication?

7 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

DRM is proof that you have paid for something. If you need to log in to play it, then thats DRM. GOG has too DRM of sort, as you need to create account in order to download game installer. Thats only part of DRM they have, and gamers are willing to accept it as GOG usually says its mainly to allow you always to download your installers.

GOG Galaxy is still ENTIRELY optional. Why people think it's required is beyond me. And the GOG/Galaxy account doesn't verify what you have, it just gives you access to your library.

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

How does one verify a digital purchase without authentication?

The point is that you don't have to verify nor make a digital purchase nor authenticate anything to play the game in the first place. Simply download and play the game.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

The point is that you don't have to verify nor make a digital purchase nor authenticate anything to play the game in the first place. Simply download and play the game.

Now I'm confused and wondering if you missed the question. He asked if the game requires you to verify your account and purchase to play it quantifies it as having DRM. Which it does.

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Using an account in the game is not DRM. DRM is limitation to a single platform. If you can install it in 1000 different places it is not DRM. Use might be restricted to those that bought it. This is simply a way to emulate electronically a proof of purchase.

 

If you consider that DRM then everything you buy in a physical store is DRM as you receipt is the proof of purchase. Only 2 person has that proof, you and the company that sold you the goods.

 

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9 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Now I'm confused and wondering if you missed the question. He asked if the game requires you to verify your account and purchase to play it quantifies it as having DRM. Which it does.

"Using an account in the game is not DRM. DRM is limitation to a single platform. If you can install it in 1000 different places it is not DRM. Use might be restricted to those that bought it. This is simply a way to emulate electronically a proof of purchase. If you consider that DRM then everything you buy in a physical store is DRM as you receipt is the proof of purchase. Only 2 person has that proof, you and the company that sold you the goods." <<< Does what @Franck just said clear up any confusion? Or do you need video evidence?

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If we went by what Wikipedia says:

Quote

Digital rights management (DRM) tools or technological protection measures (TPM)[1] are a set of access control technologies for restricting the use of proprietary hardware and copyrighted works.[2] DRM technologies try to control the use, modification, and distribution of copyrighted works (such as software and multimedia content), as well as systems within devices that enforce these policies

Then if I have to register an account in order to verify the purchase of a game and I'm required to use that account in order to play it, that is a form of access control.

 

EDIT: Let's put it in another way, DRM affects what the consumer can do with their goods after the purchasing of said goods. This has been a topic of debate whether or not the consumer owns said goods (particularly digital ones) after they've purchased it. It's already implied that if the goods are to be sold, that is a form of access control, but it's still within the producer's possession per se, not the consumer's.

 

In another vein, I would consider Amazon's digital music store to be DRM free, because once you have obtained a copy of the music you've purchased, there are no restrictions as to what you can do with said music. At least to the extent that you're not required to have some license or whatever to listen to it.

 

However, a game I've purchased on Steam, even if it comes with no other DRM attached with it like Denuvo, is still under DRM if it refuses to run without Steam open and logged in with an account that "owns" the game.

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18 hours ago, Franck said:

Using an account in the game is not DRM. DRM is limitation to a single platform. If you can install it in 1000 different places it is not DRM. Use might be restricted to those that bought it. This is simply a way to emulate electronically a proof of purchase.

 

You are conflicting yourself there. DRM is literally restriction of use, not installing. It's not directly about restriction to specific platform either, that's mainly caused by difference of OS of device and company deciding that account verified purchase isn't valid across platforms. Like with Battlefield series for example.

 

You can install games on as many computers you like. But you need to login to to verify that you have purchased right to use that game

 

 

18 hours ago, Franck said:

If you consider that DRM then everything you buy in a physical store is DRM as you receipt is the proof of purchase. Only 2 person has that proof, you and the company that sold you the goods.

 

This is wrong way to make analogy. DRM isn't same as receipt. In your analogy, receipt would have cdkey. It's not proof of ownership, it's just proof that item has changed hands. Proof of ownership would be picture of you holding item after date in proof of purchase. So if you want to have physical world analogy, DRM is like registration of vehicle. You could receive it as gift, without been given receipt. And still being able to register it to have right to control use of it.


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On 4/26/2019 at 10:45 AM, Dr. Historic Low said:

"Using an account in the game is not DRM. DRM is limitation to a single platform. If you can install it in 1000 different places it is not DRM. Use might be restricted to those that bought it. This is simply a way to emulate electronically a proof of purchase. If you consider that DRM then everything you buy in a physical store is DRM as you receipt is the proof of purchase. Only 2 person has that proof, you and the company that sold you the goods." <<< Does what @Franck just said clear up any confusion? Or do you need video evidence?

No, because physical copies are physical, not digital. Aside from the fact that in ye olden days on PC you installed a game directly to your hard drive. CD keys grew in popularity in an attempt to try and curb "piracy" by installing or distributing  the game files with no check. So THAT actually is a form of DRM and you're still wrong.

But even if you didn't buy that, that physical copy you bought is limited to the console you bought it for, i.e. Just because I bought Metal Gear on PC doesn't mean I get it free on PS4 or Xbox. Otherwise there's only 1 physical disk, and the installation process is irrelevant in this instance. That disk is the CD-key so you can only have 1 instance of the game going at any time. There's also copyright laws so you can't duplicate the disk. The only difference between physical and digital DRM is that they can't stop me from handing my brother my game copy. Well, they could, Microsoft and Sony both wanted to clamp down on DRM and not let people trade or resell games, which people rightly flipped the fuck out over so they shitcanned it.

 

DRM free means DRM free. CD-keys are DRM. But if you have video evidence I'll take it.

 

On 4/26/2019 at 12:24 PM, Mira Yurizaki said:

If we went by what Wikipedia says:

Then if I have to register an account in order to verify the purchase of a game and I'm required to use that account in order to play it, that is a form of access control.

 

EDIT: Let's put it in another way, DRM affects what the consumer can do with their goods after the purchasing of said goods. This has been a topic of debate whether or not the consumer owns said goods (particularly digital ones) after they've purchased it. It's already implied that if the goods are to be sold, that is a form of access control, but it's still within the producer's possession per se, not the consumer's.

 

In another vein, I would consider Amazon's digital music store to be DRM free, because once you have obtained a copy of the music you've purchased, there are no restrictions as to what you can do with said music. At least to the extent that you're not required to have some license or whatever to listen to it.

 

However, a game I've purchased on Steam, even if it comes with no other DRM attached with it like Denuvo, is still under DRM if it refuses to run without Steam open and logged in with an account that "owns" the game.

Bingo. GOG.com is DRM free. You make an account to have a library and purchasing options, but once you download the game installers from the site, or install through the optional GOG Galaxy, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. There's no CD-keys or anything. I only question online because as mentioned I think I need Galaxy to play online. In the store page it says it only works with other GOG users, but there's other games like Divinity Original Sin 2 that are cross-platform and will also work with Steam users.

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18 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Bingo. GOG.com is DRM free. You make an account to have a library and purchasing options, but once you download the game installers from the site, or install through the optional GOG Galaxy, you can do whatever the hell you want with it. There's no CD-keys or anything. I only question online because as mentioned I think I need Galaxy to play online. In the store page it says it only works with other GOG users, but there's other games like Divinity Original Sin 2 that are cross-platform and will also work with Steam users.

If going online is completely optional and the game works fine otherwise, then I wouldn't count that as DRM per se. It's simply using a service to make online play easier.

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2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

If going online is completely optional and the game works fine otherwise, then I wouldn't count that as DRM per se. It's simply using a service to make online play easier.

Single player is DRM-free. I've never tried using it online, don't know how that works honestly.

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2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

No, because physical copies are physical, not digital. Aside from the fact that in ye olden days on PC you installed a game directly to your hard drive. CD keys grew in popularity in an attempt to try and curb "piracy" by installing or distributing  the game files with no check. So THAT actually is a form of DRM and you're still wrong.

But even if you didn't buy that, that physical copy you bought is limited to the console you bought it for, i.e. Just because I bought Metal Gear on PC doesn't mean I get it free on PS4 or Xbox. Otherwise there's only 1 physical disk, and the installation process is irrelevant in this instance. That disk is the CD-key so you can only have 1 instance of the game going at any time. There's also copyright laws so you can't duplicate the disk. The only difference between physical and digital DRM is that they can't stop me from handing my brother my game copy. Well, they could, Microsoft and Sony both wanted to clamp down on DRM and not let people trade or resell games, which people rightly flipped the fuck out over so they shitcanned it.

 

DRM free means DRM free. CD-keys are DRM. But if you have video evidence I'll take it.

I'm not talking about physical anything. I'm not talking about CD keys. I'm not talking about buying anything. I'm not talking about consoles. I'm not talking about laws. GOG games can be downloaded and played without verifying or authenticating anything. Simply download and play the game. Thousands upon thousands of people do it everyday. DRM-FREE.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

I'm not talking about physical anything. I'm not talking about CD keys. I'm not talking about buying anything. I'm not talking about consoles. I'm not talking about laws. GOG games can be downloaded and played without verifying or authenticating anything. Simply download and play the game. Thousands upon thousands of people do it everyday. DRM-FREE.

You're way more confused than I am. Or I'm way more confused than you are, because what you've been saying has nothing to do with GOG. You even quoted that other guy talking about how physical doesn't have DRM, even though it does. I've been making a very clear point the entire time that CD keys are DRM.

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19 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

You're way more confused than I am. Or I'm way more confused than you are, because what you've been saying has nothing to do with GOG. You even quoted that other guy talking about how physical doesn't have DRM, even though it does. I've been making a very clear point the entire time that CD keys are DRM.

"<<< Does what @Franck just said clear up any confusion? Or do you need video evidence?"

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing or having anything to do with what Franck actually said. I'm merely asking if what he said clears up any confusion.

 

And again, I'm not talking about physical anything. And I'm not talking about CD keys. I'm saying that GOG games can be downloaded and played without verifying or authenticating anything. DRM-FREE. I'm not sure what makes that confusing. 

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6 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

"<<< Does what @Franck just said clear up any confusion? Or do you need video evidence?"

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing or having anything to do with what Franck actually said. I'm merely asking if what he said clears up any confusion.

 

Your framing of it is like you are agreeing. And their view isn't accurate, as you can see from my post. As @Franck's isn't going to clear any confusion, just adding to it.

 

6 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

And again, I'm not talking about physical anything. And I'm not talking about CD keys. I'm saying that GOG games can be downloaded and played without verifying or authenticating anything. DRM-FREE. I'm not sure what makes that confusing. 

Anything bought from GOG is DRM free, true. But you still can't buy without registering. You can't download files without registering. So there's still something extra, which you wouldn't have if it was physical store instead.


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6 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Your framing of it is like you are agreeing.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing or having anything to do with what Franck actually said. I'm merely asking if what he said clears up any confusion.

6 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Anything bought from GOG is DRM free, true. But you still can't buy without registering. You can't download files without registering. So there's still something extra, which you wouldn't have if it was physical store instead.

I'm not talking about buying anything. You can download games without registering. There's nothing extra. There's no physical store. You download the game and play it. It's that simple.

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:31 PM, JZStudios said:

People who pirate weren't going to buy it anyways so technically it doesn't really affect their sales.

Nah. People who pirate do so because it saves money.

 

If the only way to play a game was to buy it, people would buy it. 

 

I know people who used to pirate everything, but who have since gone over to consoles and now they're buying games. If they could pirate on consoles, they'd be doing so. 


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