Performance issues with HDR

[Bravo1cc]

Hi Guys

 

So i just wanted to get some feedback on if any of you have had the same issues as me, i found just last night that i have performance issues when running games in HDR, the problem doesn't seem to be the HDR its self but seems to be to do with my desktop resolution and what i think is a bug in windows. So my situation is that when playing any game i lose about 30% of my performance, i have narrowed down a work around of: 

 

Run a lightweight program like HWinfo and then turn HDR on while the game is running and then back to HWinfo and then alt+tab back to the game.

 

In Assassins creed origins i have noticed a 33% uplift in performance. I have done this with a few other games and for example Metro Exodus nets me a 10% performance increase. Things that i have noticed also, as mentioned before if my desktop resolution is not set the the in-game resolution this will not work, the same resolution but not trying the workaround doesn't give the same result so i know that this alone is not the issue. Anyone have any ideas what i'm facing and if anyone else has had the same problem.

 

[Enderman]

Just disable HDR?

[Bravo1cc]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Just disable HDR?

I don't want to, sorry but that is kind of oblivious right?

[Enderman]

3 minutes ago, Bravo1cc said:

I don't want to, sorry but that is kind of oblivious right?

Just because a monitor says "supports HDR" doesn't mean that it actually makes a significant difference, you know?

Like HDR 400, HDR 1000, the "HDR" monitors that can't even reach 400, etc. most of it is BS

[xAcid9]

Pascal lost about 10% performance with HDR enabled, i never heard 30% though.

[Bravo1cc]

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Just because a monitor says "supports HDR" doesn't mean that it actually makes a significant difference, you know?

Like HDR 400, HDR 1000, the "HDR" monitors that can't even reach 400, etc. most of it is BS

I know what HDR is and what supports it, i have a Samsung KS9000, HDR is very much supported, my query on here was to have some advice on what the problem may be not weather i should turn it off. But thanks for you time.

[Bravo1cc]

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

Pascal lost about 10% performance with HDR enabled, i never heard 30% though.

Thats a shame, strange as when i have HDR disabled i have no performance loss with the same steps. HDR is very much being used and displayed, 30% is very very excessive and something else is going on i'm sure, just not sure what.

[Paul Rudd]

6 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Pascal lost about 10% performance with HDR enabled, i never heard 30% though.

It varies from game to game.

6 hours ago, Bravo1cc said:

something else is going on i'm sure, just not sure what.

Your Nvidia GPU is to blame and as I mentioned above, the amount of performance loss varies from game to game. The cause is unclear. A driver update may or may not fix your issue. Depends on how far they are along to fixing this issue(they're well aware of it) and whether or not they addressed it in recent driver updates. I noticed a new driver update yesterday so you could update your current driver to it and run your tests again.

[Enderman]

8 hours ago, Bravo1cc said:

I know what HDR is and what supports it, i have a Samsung KS9000, HDR is very much supported, my query on here was to have some advice on what the problem may be not weather i should turn it off. But thanks for you time.

The KS9000 in SDR mode performance is almost identical to that with HDR enabled, so unless you're using the TV in full daylight with the brightness maxed there really is no point to using HDR on that screen.

 

You should really do some more critical thinking before just enabling every feature you hear about on the internet.

[Mira Yurizaki]

13 minutes ago, Enderman said:

The KS9000 in SDR mode performance is almost identical to that with HDR enabled, so unless you're using the TV in full daylight with the brightness maxed there really is no point to using HDR on that screen.

 

You should really do some more critical thinking before just enabling every feature you hear about on the internet.

The display's brightness output is one half of the HDR equation. The other half is color rendering. While I do believe you should have both a high peak brightness display to take advantage of the higher color precision, that doesn't mean the higher color precision can't be enjoyed as well. Especially if it maps to "better" colors on an SDR panel.

 

I still see color banding in games. Especially when it appears a lot of color mixing is going on (usually smoke and other partial transparency effects). It'd be nice to get rid of those since it's one of those "I've seen it now I can't unsee it" things. If enabling HDR gets rid of that, then cool. That's one step to enjoying a better looking game.

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

The display's brightness output is one half of the HDR equation. The other half is color rendering. While I do believe you should have both a high peak brightness display to take advantage of the higher color precision, that doesn't mean the higher color precision can't be enjoyed as well. Especially if it maps to "better" colors on an SDR panel.

 

I still see color banding in games. Especially when it appears a lot of color mixing is going on (usually smoke and other partial transparency effects). It'd be nice to get rid of those since it's one of those "I've seen it now I can't unsee it" things. If enabling HDR gets rid of that, then cool. That's one step to enjoying a better looking game.

You can enable 10 bit output in the nvidia control panel, it has nothing to do with HDR.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Setting-Graphics-Card-Software-to-Display-10-bit-Output-1221/

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Enderman said:

You can enable 10 bit output in the nvidia control panel, it has nothing to do with HDR.

Except the application isn't aware of this and still mixes everything using 8-bit color, which when mapped to a 10-bit output can result in a worse presentation (I think colors get over-saturated?)

[Enderman]

5 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Except the application isn't aware of this and still mixes everything using 8-bit color, which when mapped to a 10-bit output can result in a worse presentation (I think colors get over-saturated?)

I've never seen any colour banding or oversaturation when gaming on either of my 10 bit TVs.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Enderman said:

I've never seen any colour banding or oversaturation when gaming on either of my 10 bit TVs.

I mean, I don't know how every display upscales 8-bit outputs to 10-bit, but 10-bit support requires everything in the pipeline to support it.

 

But otherwise HDR is not just peak brightness. The three "main" standards I'm aware of (HDR10, Dolby Vision, and Hybrid Log Gamma) require the content to have at least 10-bit color.

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I mean, I don't know how every display upscales 8-bit outputs to 10-bit, but 10-bit support requires everything in the pipeline to support it.

 

But otherwise HDR is not just peak brightness. The three "main" standards I'm aware of (HDR10, Dolby Vision, and Hybrid Log Gamma) require the content to have at least 10-bit color.

The display isn't upscaling anything, the GPU outputs 10 bit, the display just needs to have a 10 bit panel.

Also there is dynamic range in the nvidia control panel that needs to be changed from limited to full when being used with a TV.

Again, nothing to do with HDR.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Enderman said:

The display isn't upscaling anything, the GPU outputs 10 bit, the display just needs to have a 10 bit panel.

Okay, then the OS or the driver still has to upscale 8-bit content into 10-bits. The point is the application has to support 10-bit coloring, otherwise you're just getting upscaled results.

Just now, Enderman said:

Also there is dynamic range in the nvidia control panel that needs to be changed from limited to full when being used with a TV.

Again, nothing to do with HDR.

And this has nothing to do with the point that the "main" HDR standards require the content to output 10-bit color. The content being what the application spits out, not what the GPU spits out.

 

I mean, if you want to sit here all day trying to make @Bravo1cc look like an idiot, we can stop now and I'll let you continue doing that.

[Bravo1cc]

2 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

It varies from game to game.

Your Nvidia GPU is to blame and as I mentioned above, the amount of performance loss varies from game to game. The cause is unclear. A driver update may or may not fix your issue. Depends on how far they are along to fixing this issue(they're well aware of it) and whether or not they addressed it in recent driver updates. I noticed a new driver update yesterday so you could update your current driver to it and run your tests again.

i'm just installing the new driver, but if it does vary that much I am shocked. 

[Paul Rudd]

5 minutes ago, Bravo1cc said:

i'm just installing the new driver, but if it does vary that much I am shocked.

It's all about whether or not Nvidia has addressed and fixed the issue. They've known about it as early as Summer 2018. HDR is fairly new so only time will fix the issue. Especially since the cause may still be unclear. You'd have to get in contact with Nvidia to know whether it is still unclear.

 

As for the performance hit, it's like visiting a doctor when you get older. You have to weigh your options and choose whether you want the way you've gotten HDR to look in front of you with the decrease in performance or to just turn it off and get the performance back with how it looks without HDR on. Until Nvidia fixes it anyway.

[Bravo1cc]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

It's all about whether or not Nvidia has addressed and fixed the issue. They've known about it as early as Summer 2018. HDR is fairly new so only time will fix the issue. Especially since the cause may still be unclear. You'd have to get in contact with Nvidia to know whether it is still unclear.

 

As for the performance hit, it's like visiting a doctor when you get older. You have to weigh your options and choose whether you want the way you've gotten HDR to look in front of you with the decrease in performance or to just turn it off and get the performance back with how it looks without HDR on. Until Nvidia fixes it anyway.

This this has gotten worse rather than better after the driver update. I am going to have to roll back as this is caused even my work around to break.

 

Man i don't get why this is such a shit storm lol

[Enderman]

1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Okay, then the OS or the driver still has to upscale 8-bit content into 10-bits. The point is the application has to support 10-bit coloring, otherwise you're just getting upscaled results.

And this has nothing to do with the point that the "main" HDR standards require the content to output 10-bit color. The content being what the application spits out, not what the GPU spits out.

 

I mean, if you want to sit here all day trying to make @Bravo1cc look like an idiot, we can stop now and I'll let you continue doing that.

First of all, there is no "upscaling" to be done, this is not like resolution where you need to guess stuff to add more pixels.

If you have a set of numbers eg [5,39,200,250] those numbers also fit in the range between 0 and 1023.

An 8 bit colour data set fits within a 10 bit dataset without any 'upscaling'

 

My point is that there is no need for HDR when you can have a perfectly good gaming experience by enabling 10 bit and full dynamic range.

The rest is placebo and brighter peak intensity which you'll only notice when the brightness is maxed in a fully lit room.

Mostly just a marketing gimmick.

[Paul Rudd]

2 hours ago, Bravo1cc said:

This this has gotten worse rather than better after the driver update.

Did you do a clean install using DDU, then install the newest driver? Or did you just update to the newest driver without using DDU?

 

Storms last a random amount of time.

[Bravo1cc]

11 hours ago, Enderman said:

First of all, there is no "upscaling" to be done, this is not like resolution where you need to guess stuff to add more pixels.

If you have a set of numbers eg [5,39,200,250] those numbers also fit in the range between 0 and 1023.

An 8 bit colour data set fits within a 10 bit dataset without any 'upscaling'

 

My point is that there is no need for HDR when you can have a perfectly good gaming experience by enabling 10 bit and full dynamic range.

The rest is placebo and brighter peak intensity which you'll only notice when the brightness is maxed in a fully lit room.

Mostly just a marketing gimmick.

I don't know what you have been playing but there is a huge difference, if you cant see it then maybe see an eye doctor.

[Bravo1cc]

9 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

Did you do a clean install using DDU, then install the newest driver? Or did you just update to the newest driver without using DDU?

 

Storms last a random amount of time.

I just did a clean install via G force experience, does it make a difference? (Honest question not a bitchy reply)

 

Honestly appreciate your help here.

[Paul Rudd]

7 hours ago, Bravo1cc said:

I just did a clean install via G force experience, does it make a difference?

Some say it makes a dramatic difference. Some say it makes no difference. I say sometimes it can make a difference and sometimes it can. From my experience it has made a difference when I had updated my driver multiple times prior to using the DDU method.

 

I do recommend giving it a shot with no expectations since you haven't tried it yet. It would at least rule it out and you'd have the cleanest and most complete driver uninstall you could possibly have without leaving any packages or registry keys or folders or files or a driver store, etc, etc(what DDU does in the first place). 

 

If a miracle is performed then that's awesome but if it does nothing then blame Nvidia for not addressing the issue via a driver update as they planned. Although there's been no timetable set because like I mentioned, HDR is fairly new and what exactly is going on may still remain unclear.

 

Be sure to restart your computer after doing everything.

[Bravo1cc]

17 hours ago, Dr. Historic Low said:

Some say it makes a dramatic difference. Some say it makes no difference. I say sometimes it can make a difference and sometimes it can. From my experience it has made a difference when I had updated my driver multiple times prior to using the DDU method.

 

I do recommend giving it a shot with no expectations since you haven't tried it yet. It would at least rule it out and you'd have the cleanest and most complete driver uninstall you could possibly have without leaving any packages or registry keys or folders or files or a driver store, etc, etc(what DDU does in the first place). 

 

If a miracle is performed then that's awesome but if it does nothing then blame Nvidia for not addressing the issue via a driver update as they planned. Although there's been no timetable set because like I mentioned, HDR is fairly new and what exactly is going on may still remain unclear.

 

Be sure to restart your computer after doing everything.

So after taking so time to check over some global settings that were not enabled when i had the last driver installed i now have my performance back and i don't have to use the workaround. So one step back two forward, I'm going to blame G-Force experience for this one. But at least they fixed the issue.