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Vega finally beats RTX? Vulkan strikes again!

BluJay614
8 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Are those new or b stock?  I was referring more to the new listings on PCPartpicker.

new random in stock through their website I had couple opportunities myself but no need i'll save my tech upgrade budget money maybe towards zen

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I wonder if this is also predictive of vulkan's ray tracing functionality once amd provides support for it.

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In general I really don't think AMD has any magical advantage in Vulkan, at least not compared to DX12.

 

It seems more likely that a properly optimized Vulkan or DX12 game can both fully utilize AMD's gcn architecture.

 

But there have been a number of poor DX12 ports which gave DX12 a bad reputation. Maybe the toolset or documentation provided by Microsoft is not as good as Vulkan's, or maybe there were some incompetent devs...

 

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Hardware unboxed has tested using Vulkan for AMD and DX11 for Nvidia.  This makes sense because Nvidia performs better in DX11 in this game at least on current drivers. 

 

@BluJay614, you can add this to the opening post if you wish. Although the GPUs above $600 are excluded.

 

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https://www.techspot.com/review/1835-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650/

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On 4/22/2019 at 4:40 PM, maartendc said:

Can someone explain to me exactly what Vulkan is? Is it a way for the game to talk to the OS, the same way DirectX does? So does a game that uses Vulkan not use DirectX at all?

 

This is nice for AMD, but at the same time, 99% of games use DirectX, so not really that usefull.. Why would a developer use Vulkan over DirectX? Is it easier to program for?

 

I am sure all the developers that are sponsored by Nvidia with their "game ready" or "plays best on..." will NOT use it, if Nvidia has any say over it.

 

I find it funny that everyone is up in arms about something like the Epic Game Store getting exclusives, but nobody ever complains about Nvidia throwing money at developers to optimize their games for their hardware. Way bigger of a problem if you ask me... And we see the results now with Nvidia selling you $1200 GPU's because they own the market.

Vulkan is a specification for a full API that can be implemented by the graphics card (or CPU technically ) manufacturer in the drivers. It's a way for the program to talk to the graphics card's drivers to send both code (shaders) data to the VRAM (the video memory) and tell the graphics card what to draw. generally speaking this operation is expensive and will harm performance so you want to use it as little as possible , treat the graphics card like a whole separate computer.

 

You can totally use both DirectX OpenGL and Vulkan together on the same graphics context. for example if you have something easy to render like UI and you prefer not deal with Vulkan you can just draw this part with OpenGL.

 

You are currently probably using a lot of things with vulkan without you knowing especially on non Microsoft platforms like Android or Nintendo switch. So why aren't you seeing Vulkan on PC and Xbox games ? Because you are playing on a Microsoft platform and Microsoft has DirectX 11 and DirectX 12 (DirectX 11 is really good while OpenGL and Vulkan are completely the opposite DirectX 11 is kinda the sweet spot between them) , Microsoft makes sure DirectX will work well with Windows and Xbox. DirectX is the recommendation of the running environment and developers are going to use it. They most likely have an openGL renderer and a Vulkan renderer ready but won't use them since they are following the guidelines of the platform they are developing applications to. As they should.

 

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2 hours ago, Humbug said:

In general I really don't think AMD has any magical advantage in Vulkan, at least not compared to DX12.

 

It seems more likely that a properly optimized Vulkan or DX12 game can both fully utilize AMD's gcn architecture.

 

But there have been a number of poor DX12 ports which gave DX12 a bad reputation. Maybe the toolset or documentation provided by Microsoft is not as good as Vulkan's, or maybe there were some incompetent devs...

 

at the start dx12 was used almost in name only, basically they had a dx11 base calling dx12 instructions, so its using dx12 but in the worst way possible, newer games use it properly 

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AMD Sponsored Title Shows Greater Performance With AMD Cards

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19 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Right now Vulkan is heavily favored.

For a simple Reason:


It works on Windows 7.

Win7 is on limited time though... support ends in under 9 months. I wonder what will happen then... also Win7 hasn't supported CPUs from Kaby Lake & Ryzen onwards. A quick look on Steam hardware survey, as a proxy for what (some) gamers actually run, suggests about 1/3 of people not on Win10, most of which are Win7 with some Win8 here and there. While still significant, that number is only going to go down, and this time next year maybe big title games will drop support for Win7 regardless of graphical API.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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18 minutes ago, porina said:

Win7 is on limited time though... support ends in under 9 months. I wonder what will happen then... also Win7 hasn't supported CPUs from Kaby Lake & Ryzen onwards. A quick look on Steam hardware survey, as a proxy for what (some) gamers actually run, suggests about 1/3 of people not on Win10, most of which are Win7 with some Win8 here and there. While still significant, that number is only going to go down, and this time next year maybe big title games will drop support for Win7 regardless of graphical API.

that lack of support is meaningless as it works just fine with any cpu, though people on win 7 should at least move to 8.1, (and install starter is back)

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30 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

that lack of support is meaningless as it works just fine with any cpu, though people on win 7 should at least move to 8.1, (and install starter is back)

I know the hardware supports the OS, but the OS does not support the hardware. I've run Win7 on both Coffee Lake and Ryzen for benching purposes. Few people are willing to go through the hoops and it doesn't alter the reality that Win7 is going unsupported soon.

 

IMO Win8 is largely irrelevant if upgrading from 7, and you might as well go straight to 10. Recently I started updating my remaining Win7 systems to Win10. If you have an activated Win7 install and use the download USB stick to perform an upgrade, you still get an activated Win10.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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2 hours ago, floofer said:

AMD Sponsored Title Shows Greater Performance With AMD Cards

But that wasn't ever assumed when it's by NVIDIA? It's also weird how everyone attributes benefits to Vulkan on AMD cards just because it evolved from Mantle. There are no AMD dependencies in it and NVIDIA can make it perform just as good.

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5 hours ago, Humbug said:

Hardware unboxed has tested using Vulkan for AMD and DX11 for Nvidia.  This makes sense because Nvidia performs better in DX11 in this game at least on current drivers. 

 

@BluJay614, you can add this to the opening post if you wish. Although the GPUs above $600 are excluded.

 

WWZ.png

https://www.techspot.com/review/1835-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650/

I was considering it

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4 hours ago, porina said:

Win7 is on limited time though... support ends in under 9 months.

Irrelevant.

Its still a big portion of the Market.

30% or more, you can't ignoreit.


It was hte same bullshit with WIndows XP, that still had a big portion of the Market even if it was no longer getting any security uptates no more.

ANd keep in mind that Windows 7 is almost 10 years old and that's the timeframe M$ supports their OS: Around 10 Years.


And to make it worse, you could have gotten Windows 10 for free...

4 hours ago, porina said:

and this time next year maybe big title games will drop support for Win7 regardless of graphical API.

If its still a significant portion of the market, they can't ignore it, wich prevented a good DX12 implementation because you have to also support Windows 7.

3 hours ago, cj09beira said:

that lack of support is meaningless as it works just fine with any cpu, though people on win 7 should at least move to 8.1, (and install starter is back)

Windows 8.1 is not possible because lack of driver support from some companies and other stuff.

So right now at this moment, you have two choices:
a) Windows 7

b) WIndows 10

 

There is nothing inbetween as 8.1 was never important tot the market...

 

 

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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46 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Irrelevant.

Its still a big portion of the Market.

30% or more, you can't ignoreit.


It was hte same bullshit with WIndows XP, that still had a big portion of the Market even if it was no longer getting any security uptates no more.

ANd keep in mind that Windows 7 is almost 10 years old and that's the timeframe M$ supports their OS: Around 10 Years.


And to make it worse, you could have gotten Windows 10 for free...

If its still a significant portion of the market, they can't ignore it, wich prevented a good DX12 implementation because you have to also support Windows 7.

Windows 8.1 is not possible because lack of driver support from some companies and other stuff.

So right now at this moment, you have two choices:
a) Windows 7

b) WIndows 10

 

There is nothing inbetween as 8.1 was never important tot the market...

 

 

most of the time win 7 drivers work just fine on win 8 it worked very well for me up until i moved to linux

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18 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

most of the time win 7 drivers work just fine on win 8 it worked very well for me up until i moved to linux

Been there, done that.

Don't seem to work on my Windows 8.1 Installation. 


Need to test it at some point...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Too bad all the games I play don't run on vulkan.

Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB

            CPU: Ryzen 9 5900X          Case: Antec P8     PSU: Corsair RM850x                        Cooler: Antec K240 with two Noctura Industrial PPC 3000 PWM

            Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition

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1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Irrelevant.

Its still a big portion of the Market.

30% or more, you can't ignoreit.

That number can only go down. It remains to be seen how long 3rd party software will continue to support it after MS officially stops. Software writers will have to balance the cost of supporting Win7, against not supporting it which might also help enable them to do things that Win7 might have prevented.

 

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

And to make it worse, you could have gotten Windows 10 for free...

Still can. Installing Win10 on top of an activated Win7 install will get you an activated Win10 install. Don't like updates? You can also still activate Win10 with Win7 keys, at least it works in the various times I tried it.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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22 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Rereading it, yeah, my post wasn't necessary.

 

But I get a knee-jerk reaction when I see people posting prices because of the rampant cherry picking I see here.

It's all good it happens to us all from time to time. 

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