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Optane+SSD: Intel H10

NumLock21
By NumLock21
in Tech News
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Using a Nand flash based storage to speed up system responsiveness in programs and access of data has been available for quite some time, but they're mostly consist of 2 separate drives, a SSD and a HDD. These type of setup are not ideal where there is not enough space or available slots, like the M.2, when the system you have only has 1 of them, especially in laptops. Intel has just announced their brand new storage the H10, which combines Intel Optane with their Intel SSD, all into a single M.2 form factor.

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The Optane Memory H10 will come in three varieties, with QLC NAND capacities ranging from 256GB to 1TB. The 256GB model will have 16GB of Optane storage while the 512GB and 1TB will both have 32GB of Optane storage. All three capacities are implemented as single-sided M.2 modules, with approximately half of the card dedicated to the Optane controller, media and PMIC, while the other half contains the Silicon Motion SM2263 controller, DRAM and QLC NAND. The card as a whole has a PCIe 3.0 x4 interface, but each of the two SSD controllers gets just two PCIe lanes. Intel's caching software will support reading and writing data from both Optane and QLC simultaneously, so they rate the H10 for up to 2.4GB/s sequential reads even though neither half can exceed 2GB/s on its own.

For now it's only available for OEMs and it requires at least a Intel 300 series chipset with a Intel 8th gen CPU. No words on if it will ever reach the retail market.

 

ssd-optane-h10-storage-front-flat-rwd.pn

More pics and detail specs in the link below

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14196/intel-releases-optane-memory-h10-specifications

 

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I'm struggling with the logic behind this... I know a pure QLC SSD isn't going to be best in performance, but I'm not sure the addition of logically separate Optane is the solution to that. I'm not against the use of Optane as cache for this scenario, I just don't feel an OS level software solution to merge them together is the best choice based on my experiences with attempting same in a Optane+HD scenario. It just has various edge cases where it doesn't work as you would hope it does. Would be so much nicer if Optane part was invisible to the OS, and was managed internally by the SSD controller.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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30 minutes ago, porina said:

I'm struggling with the logic behind this... I know a pure QLC SSD isn't going to be best in performance, but I'm not sure the addition of logically separate Optane is the solution to that. I'm not against the use of Optane as cache for this scenario, I just don't feel an OS level software solution to merge them together is the best choice based on my experiences with attempting same in a Optane+HD scenario. It just has various edge cases where it doesn't work as you would hope it does. Would be so much nicer if Optane part was invisible to the OS, and was managed internally by the SSD controller.

>Having the caching done by the OS instead of by the controller

that's one great way to reduce the performance the caching should do

Ryzen 7 3700X / 16GB RAM / Optane SSD / GTX 1650 / Solus Linux

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Wait why 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Wait why 

Why not?

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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I think this could actually be worth it if they did the caching on the SSD. When it's cached from the OS or BIOS, it introduces problems and it's much slower (distance and latency from/to controller is much less than going to CPU, RAM, etc.)

Ryzen 7 3700X / 16GB RAM / Optane SSD / GTX 1650 / Solus Linux

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Good 1TB M.2 drives are ~$120. With how good those cheaper drives are, I think it's weird for the existing $200+ 1TB M.2 drives to justify their existence as it is. Anandtech mentioned they got one for review, I'm fascinated how it will perform, even though I doubt it will make sense to buy one.

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4 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Wait why 

Cost of 1TB of RAM v 1TB of this in a SQL Server

 

Performance differential of having your entire database in RAM versus having a single table in RAM.

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9 hours ago, TrigrH said:

So NAND behind a Optane cache? behind a DRAM cache?

It's logically Optane + QLC SSD on one physical package but visible separately to the OS. If you want to use Optane as cache, you need the software to enable it.

8 hours ago, Blake said:

Cost of 1TB of RAM v 1TB of this in a SQL Server

 

Performance differential of having your entire database in RAM versus having a single table in RAM.

This isn't Optane persistent memory though, which is the one intended as a cheaper alternative to ram in server use. The product here is for end user devices.

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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Well from the surface it seems to beat a lot of mid range NVME ssds, but I'll wait for the reviews. 

Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB

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            Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition

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Posted

this is a good idea because of how fast optane can cache things but I don't want a QLC ssd unless it's REALLY LARGE in size.. because otherwise you can't write to them very much :/

"If a Lobster is a fish because it moves by jumping, then a kangaroo is a bird" - Admiral Paulo de Castro Moreira da Silva

"There is nothing more difficult than fixing something that isn't all the way broken yet." - Author Unknown

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IDK why they didn't just replace the RAM with Optane.  32GB of Optane vs 1GB of RAM.  Optane drives by themselves don't have RAM.

AMD 7950x / Asus Strix B650E / 64GB @ 6000c30 / 2TB Samsung 980 Pro Heatsink 4.0x4 / 7.68TB Samsung PM9A3 / 3.84TB Samsung PM983 / 44TB Synology 1522+ / MSI Gaming Trio 4090 / EVGA G6 1000w /Thermaltake View71 / LG C1 48in OLED

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