TSMC unveils 6nm process

[CiBi]

Source

More information on TSMC 6nm and Samsung 5nm

TSMC's unveiling statement

 

Quote

TSMC’s N6 process delivers 18% higher logic density over the N7 process. At the same time, its design rules are fully compatible with TSMC’s proven N7 technology, allowing its comprehensive design ecosystem to be reused. As a result, it offers a seamless migration path with a fast design cycle time with very limited engineering resources for customers to achieve the product benefits from the new technology offering.

Looks like TSMC is doing good, they might be the best chip manufacturer soon. As far as I understand the naming scheme is very arbitrary and Intel's 7nm process for example is denser then TSMC's 5nm process so I don't really know where this 6nm process is going to land.

Quote

Scheduled for risk production in the first quarter of 2020

I assume we wont see this in products until 2021 but cool none the less.

 

 

[williamcll]

I thought they were doing 5nm and not 6nm.

[CiBi]

3 minutes ago, williamcll said:

I thought they were doing 5nm and not 6nm.

As I understand they are testing out both and while 5nm is supposed to be a whole new process, 6nm is far more similar to the 7nm process. But I agree its complicated XD

[The Benjamins]

Right this 6nm is really just the 7nm+?

[bcredeur97]

52 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Right this 6nm is really just the 7nm+?

basically. probably what their 7nm should of been in the first place

 

TSMC doesn't have as good of a process as intel for sure... but look at how intel struggles due to their "high requirements" basically.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, The Benjamins said:

Right this 6nm is really just the 7nm+?

It's 7EUV+

[Agosto]

Is that an Apple logo?

 

[Stefan Payne]

Zen2+ on 6nm and Zen3  on 5nm??

[cj09beira]

3 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

basically. probably what their 7nm should of been in the first place

 

TSMC doesn't have as good of a process as intel for sure... but look at how intel struggles due to their "high requirements" basically.

what does it matter if intel's papers look better if its all just that, tsmc is ahead and are better 

[S w a t s o n]

3 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

It's 7EUV+

According to the OP it's distinct from 7nm+ but how, I am unsure....

 

Quote

By leveraging the new capabilities in extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography gained from the N7+ technology currently in risk production, TSMC’s N6 process delivers 18% higher logic density over the N7 process

 

More EUV layers? I know 7nm+ is only a few EUV layers

[S w a t s o n]

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/8129-samsung-5nm-tsmc-6nm-update.html

 

This provides a ton of info, looks like it really is a 7nm++ meant to compete with samsung which apparently already had 6nm (and 7nm) EUV.

 

 

Edit: TSMC's actual PDF release: https://www.tsmc.com/uploadfile/pr/newspdf/THWQWQTHTH/NEWS_FILE_EN.pdf

[mr moose]

19 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

what does it matter if intel's papers look better if its all just that, tsmc is ahead and are better 

 

Not sure how you figure that,  if by a head you mean they are going to release 7nm first then sure, but that doesn't make it better, we can't just say one is better because it has a smaller number, they are not directly relatable in that way.

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

Not sure how you figure that,  if by a head you mean they are going to release 7nm first then sure, but that doesn't make it better, we can't just say one is better because it has a smaller number, they are not directly relatable in that way.

yes i mean they have  7nm shipping in volume, and seem to be right on track stay a node ahead by the time intel releases 10nm, by most metrics both 10nm and 7nm should be really close (ignoring the fact that intel's 10nm wont be that dense), max frequency is the only thing that is up in the air, but 7nm is looking good

[S w a t s o n]

10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Not sure how you figure that,  if by a head you mean they are going to release 7nm first then sure, but that doesn't make it better, we can't just say one is better because it has a smaller number, they are not directly relatable in that way.

 

5 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

yes i mean they have  7nm shipping in volume, and seem to be right on track stay a node ahead by the time intel releases 10nm, by most metrics both 10nm and 7nm should be really close (ignoring the fact that intel's 10nm wont be that dense), max frequency is the only thing that is up in the air, but 7nm is looking good

While we dont have hard numbers we know that 7nm was targeting intel's original 10nm which was more dense in design than the new 10nm they have retaped out. At the very least intel is definitely having to play keep-up with samsung and TSMC right now. Intel's 7nm is another discussion

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

 

While we dont have hard numbers we know that 7nm was targeting intel's original 10nm which was more dense in design than the new 10nm they have retaped out. At the very least intel is definitely having to play keep-up with samsung and TSMC right now. Intel's 7nm is another discussion

I think it's all the same discussion,  they are all working on various nodes,  none of them are directly comparable and how fast each one gets to production is not a concrete detail.  Remember Intel still has an entire fab in Arizona waiting to be fit out.    If they starting fitting that out for their 7nm before 10nm you can bet your arse TMSC and Goflo won't hold any advantage for AMD and they will have to ensure their design is enough to keep them competitive. 

[S w a t s o n]

18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I think it's all the same discussion,  they are all working on various nodes,  none of them are directly comparable and how fast each one gets to production is not a concrete detail.  Remember Intel still has an entire fab in Arizona waiting to be fit out.    If they starting fitting that out for their 7nm before 10nm you can bet your arse TMSC and Goflo won't hold any advantage for AMD and they will have to ensure their design is enough to keep them competitive. 

They are fitting out that fab, it takes years. Intel 7nm is on track but only on track. TSMC already ships 7nm vs 14nm from Intel, they hold the lead, and could still hold it at 10nm. 10nm is already retaped and in production

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, S w a t s o n said:

They are fitting out that fab, it takes years. Intel 7nm is on track but only on track. TSMC already ships 7nm vs 14nm from Intel, they hold the lead, and could still hold it at 10nm. 10nm is already retaped and in production

That must have been announced only late last year was it?   Last time I checked fab42 it was still empty (I read it was initially meant for 10nm production). 

If Intel manage to ramp up their 10 and are fitting out for 7nm then as I said, that isn't much of a lead TMSC have.

 

 

[WereCat]

11 hours ago, Agost said:

Is that an Apple logo?

 

no

it's obviously a Pacman 

[CiBi]

9 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/8129-samsung-5nm-tsmc-6nm-update.html

 

This provides a ton of info, looks like it really is a 7nm++ meant to compete with samsung which apparently already had 6nm (and 7nm) EUV.

 

 

Edit: TSMC's actual PDF release: https://www.tsmc.com/uploadfile/pr/newspdf/THWQWQTHTH/NEWS_FILE_EN.pdf

Thx, added to the source post.

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

Not sure how you figure that,  if by a head you mean they are going to release 7nm first then sure, but that doesn't make it better, we can't just say one is better because it has a smaller number, they are not directly relatable in that way.

Why do you have a Problem to admit that TSMC is ahead of Intel in every way right now because Intel doesn't have any presentable 10nm Product that people care about?

What's the Problem to admit that someone else got better than Intel?

 

 

Under Brian they messed up their 10nm shit and didn't get it running, TSMC got their 7nm stuff running and are already selling massive products even in the desktop PC Market.

Hell, even really large dies (~350mm²) are manufactured at TSMC 7nm and sold to the public.

 

 

That's really far ahead.

ANd now they announced an improved 7nm process they called 6nm, that can be quickly used with the 7nm plans that companies have.

 

I don't see any reason to downplay what TSMC did.

 

 

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Why do you have a Problem to admit that TSMC is ahead of Intel in every way right now because Intel doesn't have any presentable 10nm Product that people care about?

What's the Problem to admit that someone else got better than Intel?

 

 

Under Brian they messed up their 10nm shit and didn't get it running, TSMC got their 7nm stuff running and are already selling massive products even in the desktop PC Market.

Hell, even really large dies (~350mm²) are manufactured at TSMC 7nm and sold to the public.

 

 

That's really far ahead.

ANd now they announced an improved 7nm process they called 6nm, that can be quickly used with the 7nm plans that companies have.

 

I don't see any reason to downplay what TSMC did.

 

 

 

Why do you have a problem?

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Why do you have a problem?

WHy you deny that TSMC is ahead of Intel?

[mr moose]

Just now, Stefan Payne said:

WHy you deny that TSMC is ahead of Intel?

read my posts and you'll have your answer.

 

[Doobeedoo]

They're improving shrinking nm by nm doing quite well. 

[S w a t s o n]

11 hours ago, mr moose said:

That must have been announced only late last year was it?   Last time I checked fab42 it was still empty (I read it was initially meant for 10nm production). 

If Intel manage to ramp up their 10 and are fitting out for 7nm then as I said, that isn't much of a lead TMSC have.

 

 

I cant give too many details but I have a friend going to their Arizona fab this month to do things related to the bring up of the fab. And yes it is quite a lead.. when 7nm intel comes out they should catch up to tsmc's 5nm but by then tsmc should be working on 3nm. 5nm from TSMC is already in risk production and 7nm from intel is not