Cerny announces new PS5 Details

[Livineasy629]

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/04/16/sony-reveals-next-gen-playstation-details not the best source but still, whether you’re a pc enthusiast or a console player this is pretty great news. Says the Navi gpu will support ray tracing.

 

also looks like this should be backwards compatible. 

[Real_PhillBert]

IGN is blocked on my work PC, did they pull their heads out of their asses and put a 4K BluRay player in it?

[The Benjamins]

Su-Chan made this tweet

 

[GabeThePCHelper]

1 minute ago, Real_PhillBert said:

IGN is blocked on my work PC, did they pull their heads out of their asses and put a 4K BluRay player in it?

Nope, it has an AMD Ryzen 3rd generation chip, a modified Radeon NAVI, and it supports 8k and ray-tracing.

[Real_PhillBert]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

here's the source, see if you're able to access this

 

https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/

 

Many thanks!

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

hand on a sec: Modified Navi that does raytracing.

1. what rendering API is sony using?
2. if modified means cut-down, what would it be? Navi 32?
3. also would it just upscale the 1080p raytracing result for a 4K display?
4. going off the info that Navi is still GCN... wait is this even true now? or is it GCN Navi plus raytracing?

1. I believe there were rumors about AMD making their own RT API...? Presumably it's that.
2. It doesn't have to mean cut down, we don't really know what release navi will be like. It may need a different memory interface than the PC release for example.
3. Hard to say without knowing what navi can do; I doubt they'll go the nVidia route and put in both "normal" and raytracing units though, for a console it would make more sense to just pick one. Maybe that's what they mean by "modified" navi; it could drive the cost down significantly.
4. It all depends on whether AMD managed to run RT efficiently on GCN or had to develop something else like nVidia. I hope it's the former, it may mean RT support for older cards too.

[maartendc]

Glad to see they are sticking with AMD. AMD needs the cashflow from Playstation hardware to bankroll their RnD I think. They could never survive on the PC market alone.

 

Also interesting to see he is talking about a Ryzen 3000 and a Navi GPU. Sounds like they are two discreet parts? If I am correct, the PS4 is an APU with integrated graphics. Although I guess it could be a Navi GPU in one package with the CPU, like the Vega graphics on a Ryzen 2400G.

 

Also interesting that he mentions Ray Tracing. So I guess AMD is jumping on the raytracing bandwagon, and Raytracing is here to stay.

 

He says not 2019, so I assume that means 2020 release. The fact that he is talking to the press now, seems to imply that they will unveil the next Playstation at E3.

 

Also glad to hear they are planning for it to be fully backwards compatible with PS4. There is honestly no reason not to, because these boxes are just x86 PC architecture anyway.

[TVwazhere]

Quote

That’s all great, but there’s something else that excites Cerny even more. Something that he calls “a true game changer,” something that more than anything else is “the key to the next generation.” It’s a hard drive.

 

At the moment, Sony won’t cop to exact details about the SSD—who makes it, whether it utilizes the new PCIe 4.0 standard—but Cerny claims that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs. That’s not all. “The raw read speed is important,“ Cerny says, “but so are the details of the I/O [input-output] mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them. I got a PlayStation 4 Pro and then I put in a SSD that cost as much as the PlayStation 4 Pro—it might be one-third faster." As opposed to 19 times faster for the next-gen console, judging from the fast-travel demo.

SSD's being the standard? Sounds expensive....

[ThePD]

Just now, TVwazhere said:

SSD's being the standard? Sounds expensive....

Economies of scale, Sony can get plenty of SSD's below market price due to buying in bulk.

[RejZoR]

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

1. I believe there were rumors about AMD making their own RT API...? Presumably it's that.
2. It doesn't have to mean cut down, we don't really know what release navi will be like. It may need a different memory interface than the PC release for example.
3. Hard to say without knowing what navi can do; I doubt they'll go the nVidia route and put in both "normal" and raytracing units though, for a console it would make more sense to just pick one. Maybe that's what they mean by "modified" navi; it could drive the cost down significantly.
4. It all depends on whether AMD managed to run RT efficiently on GCN or had to develop something else like nVidia. I hope it's the former, it may mean RT support for older cards too.

AMD won't be making their own API. But they might use their own framework for it. Basically the same RTX is in relation to DXR. I'm certain it'll still run through DXR. Maybe that will stand true for PlayStation since it's using a special own API/language that's something similar to OpenGL/Vulkan, but on PC's it'll run DXR for sure as that's standard for ray tracing in Windows.

[TVwazhere]

Just now, ThePD said:

Economies of scale, Sony can get plenty of SSD's below market price due to buying in bulk.

Yeah which is how they get overall console prices way down, but "bandwidth higher than whats available on PC" is still expensive considering how much we have on a 3.0x16 slot (which most GPU's cannot even fully saturate). Assuming they're just referencing that PCI-E 4.0 isnt available on PC, then it's only a matter of time

[Trixanity]

That's a massive upgrade in CPU power alone; going from Jaguar to Zen 2. I think we might be in the realm of double the performance. Probably more in some workloads (and depending on the clock speed).

[ThePD]

1 minute ago, TVwazhere said:

Yeah which is how they get overall console prices way down, but "bandwidth higher than whats available on PC" is still expensive considering how much we have on a 3.0x16 slot (which most GPU's cannot even fully saturate). Assuming they're just referencing that PCI-E 4.0 isnt available on PC, then it's only a matter of time

It's probably just marketing fluff. It was a person from Sony who was talking about the PS5 doing 8K 120FPS or something insane. They could make the argument that the SSD is higher than that on most desktop HDD PC's. Either way if they speak it people will believe it.

[The Benjamins]

4 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

SSD's being the standard? Sounds expensive....

The BOM cost to add a HDD vs designing a SSD on board would be only $0-$10 difference. but in turn a on board SSD would save space, use less power. At this point a SSD would be cheaper for the total design and the long run.

 

Keep in mind these devices will be manufactured for a 8-10 year life span.

[Mira Yurizaki]

27 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

hang on a sec: Modified Navi that does raytracing.

1. what rendering API is sony using?
2. if modified means cut-down, what would it be? Navi 32?
3. also would it just upscale the 1080p raytracing result for a 4K display?
4. going off the info that Navi is still GCN... wait is this even true now? or is it GCN Navi plus raytracing?

The API I'm betting is going to be something in-house, since Sony had two for the PS4 (one low overhead one, one higher level one).

 

Also it's even up in the air if AMD will throw in any RT hardware, considering the CryEngine demo that was shown (speaking of which, did CryTek ever say anything about it after the fact?)

[Stefan Payne]

48 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

IGN is blocked on my work PC, did they pull their heads out of their asses and put a 4K BluRay player in it?

Nothing new, only what we know.

3rd Gen Ryzen aka Zen2, GPU will be Navi. Raytracing Support officially announced (now we know why nVidia is pushing Raytracing so much - because they know that AMD will bring it with Navi and they knew about it for a while - same as GSync wich was a kneejerk reaction to AMD pushing for adaptive refreshrates in the VESA Comitee - and can't give "the other side" any plus points)...

 

The only exiting thing is Fast Travel in Spider-Man took 0,8 Seconds vs. 15 on the PS4.

And with that, its obvious that PS5 will be backwards compatible to PS4...

And come with an SSD as well (its speculated that it might even be an NVMe one).

[Stefan Payne]

42 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

hang on a sec: Modified Navi that does raytracing.

1. what rendering API is sony using?
2. if modified means cut-down, what would it be? Navi 32?
3. also would it just upscale the 1080p raytracing result for a 4K display?
4. going off the info that Navi is still GCN... wait is this even true now? or is it GCN Navi plus raytracing?

1. Something "Sony Proprietary". But nobody outside of people working with the PS4 really knows. Might want to ask in the German Forum "3D Center" and hope that one of the devs answers it. But I doubt they will (or rather can because NDA). My guess would be something based on Mantle or now Vulkan.
2. No it means modified with Features exclusive to Sony that we might not see on Desktop. One example of the "modified" stuff might be the Checkerboard Rendering on Polaris inside PS4 PRO.
3. Nobody knows how it will be for old Games but PS4 PRO Games already have a 4K mode...
4. Nobody knows right now what Navi really is. It might be something more exiting than just GCN+++++. It might be the same with new Frontend and Caching Structure.

[Stefan Payne]

37 minutes ago, maartendc said:

Also interesting that he mentions Ray Tracing. So I guess AMD is jumping on the raytracing bandwagon, and Raytracing is here to stay.

Look for AMD Rays -> https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/radeon-prorender-developers

They are into Raytracing for many years yet didn't hit the Marketing Drum much about that.

With a quick google I found this Demo, presented on a Radeon HD 5870.

https://www.cinemablend.com/games/DirectX-11-Ray-Tracing-Demo-Shows-Power-AMD-44808.html

 

 

 

Something more recent, from 2014 or so:

 

There was much research done on all sides and its been talked about for years (or rather decades).

[BuckGup]

58 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

hang on a sec: Modified Navi that does raytracing.

1. what rendering API is sony using?
2. if modified means cut-down, what would it be? Navi 32?
3. also would it just upscale the 1080p raytracing result for a 4K display?
4. going off the info that Navi is still GCN... wait is this even true now? or is it GCN Navi plus raytracing?

AMD made RT that's software based 

[Stefan Payne]

Sadly only in German but on the other hand its 15 years old.

https://www.golem.de/0406/31631.html

 

Its talking about Quake 3 on a Supercomputer with 20 AMD processors that is a collaboration project between the University of Saarland and Erlangen...

And that's where most of the research about Raytracing might have been done: Universitys...

[Ithanul]

1 hour ago, maartendc said:

He says not 2019, so I assume that means 2020 release. The fact that he is talking to the press now, seems to imply that they will unveil the next Playstation at E3.

There is mention in the Ars article that the next console is three years out.  So, more likely 2021.  Their source is the Wall Street Journal on that part of the info.

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/sonys-ps4-successor-sports-3d-audio-tech-faster-ssd-storage/

[Mira Yurizaki]

49 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

 

I don't think that's a ray tracing demonstration. Reflections of the quality like on the floor are doable without ray tracing, especially if a screen space method was used. The website of the original developer also doesn't mention using it (which would be an odd thing to leave out if it was used)

 

And to drive the point home, another video of the demo shows the reflections are lacking the objects in the scene:

(it's also obvious at around 1:47 with the chess pieces and they don't show each other)

[S w a t s o n]

We're finally going to see some real good shit on consoles, besides the obvious boost in cpu/gpu horsepower, they are claiming an SSD with better throughput than any PC SSD (which seems like bullshit but not physically impossible). So at least an NVME SSD. His point about being able to move through worlds faster since you can stream data faster (see gta v pop-in on consoles) is really good. We'll see games where the minimum specification is now an SSD and a FAST 8 core cpu, shit's gonna look fresh in 2020.

[TimeOmnivore]

Glad to see PS4 backwards compatibility is a likely feature. I haven't had a PlayStation since the PS2, so this new console being backwards compatible will give me the opportunity to play some of those exclusives I've missed out on - even more so if we get PS3 backwards compatibility as well (unlikely). If it looks like there will be a strong lineup of PS5(?) exclusives coming whenever this thing launches, I may once again buy a console for the first time in quite a long time. Though I would prefer if exclusives were a thing of the past and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo just competed on hardware and features, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon, so I'll take what I can get.

 

Very unlikely to happen, but kb/m support would be phenomenal as well, and would likely push me to instantly buy this console on release, since I'd no longer hate myself for trying to aim with analog controls.

[Neftex]

the biggest selling point for me is the backwards compatibility, im 90% sure ill be getting my first console - ps5 to play some of the great exclusives released for ps4

 

ps5 specs are also why im waiting for 8 core zen2 and navi to build a pc. maybe it will get some benefit of the optimizations for games that release on both console and pc