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Alternatives to the Thinkpad X1 Extreme, XPS 15

Uber Hamburgler
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Use cases for this computer:

  • Part time Engineering student
  • Part time software developer
  • Amateur writer
  • E-sports games on the go, have an eGPU for single player games at home

Hardware I think I need:

  • At least 4 cores, 8 threads - peak single core performance is more important than all core load for CAD and compilation, but I need the threads for VMs and games that refuse to work with low thread counts.  
  • Better than integrated graphics with at least 4 GB of VRAM - an RX 460/560 or GTX 1050 is enough, Intel Iris graphics is probably good enough.
  • At least 16 GB RAM, better if I can upgrade it later, but not essential
  • 14-15.6" Display with at least 100% sRGB, 1440p, and 300 nits - I don't do work that requires color accuracy, but I do have very good eyesight and less than that is annoying.
  • Centered keyboard - putting the keyboard off center for a number pad or putting the trackpad on the side is bad ergonomics.
  • Thunderbolt 3 - I am already invested in a Thunderbolt eGPU and storage.
  • No giant mobile workstation - I need to be able to take it with me to school several days a week, but it doesn't have to be a full on Ultrabook, less than 1" think is good enough
  • No gamer aesthetic, or at least muted.
  • Good keyboard to type on for long format articles
  • Solid build quality - I drop things like Linus.
  • Not made by Huawei or any other foreign state owned company

Computer's I've already considered:

  • ThinkPad P1, X1 Extreme, T480
  • XPS 15, Precision 5000, Latitude 5491
  • HP Zbook

 

So I'm transitioning from a staff developer to a contractor.  Hence, I am losing my company provided iMac.  I also use a Surface Book with the GTX 965m that is getting a bit too dated, 2 cores and 2 GB of VRAM just doesn't cut it, but the single thread and GPU performance is still enough.  If it exists, a 3:2 display with the rest of the above requirements would be fantastic.  Enough progress has been made on the thin and light notebook front that I don't see any reason to continue to use 2 separate machines.  It sounds like what I really want is a MacBook Pro, but the keyboard is too awful, and thermal performance is concerning.  I am OS agnostic.  I bought a ThinkPad P1 (identical to the X1 Extreme, but with a Quadro) on impulse at my university's book shop for a fantastic discount, less than Lenovo charges for the X1E, but I am disappointed by the keyboard, too much key travel, maybe I'm just too used to the Surface Book's fantastic keyboard; and would like to still have paid less, but am otherwise happy.  The Dell XPS is way too much money when equipped with a 4K display, at least $500 more than I paid for the Thinkpad, and the chin cam is disappointing. The HP Zbook is priced like they don't actually want you to buy it - a full grand more than the XPS.

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Posted

It all looked great until you said not Hauwei. As you described the matebook x pro. Btw the state doesn't own them the CEO just used to be in the military

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Preferred max weight and min battery life?

Desktop specs:

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB Gigabyte B550M DS3H mATX

Asrock Challenger Pro OC Radeon RX 6700 XT Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (8Gx2) 3600MHz CL18 Kingston NV2 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD

Montech Century 850W Gold Tecware Nexus Air (Black) ATX Mid Tower

Laptop: Lenovo Ideapad 5 Pro 16ACH6

Phone: Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro 8+128

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6 hours ago, GeneXiS_X said:

Preferred max weight and min battery life?

I don't really care about weight, dimensions are more important to me:  15" x 10" x 1" is plenty small for me.  Frankly, there isn't a notebook on the market today that I consider to not be sufficiently portable due to the weight, it's all about the dimensions to me.  Minimum battery life is also not important to me - if I can get 4 hours, I'm happy. I won't be away from an outlet long using it, but I need to use it in multiple locations frequently.  

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12 hours ago, BuckGup said:

It all looked great until you said not Hauwei. As you described the matebook x pro. Btw the state doesn't own them the CEO just used to be in the military

That notebook looks great, but it wasn't just because of the the brand that I dismissed it.  The MX 150 only has 2GB of VRAM, which gives me issues with some models.  Also, IMO, super low end GPUs like that take more in battery life and price than they add in capability - not that battery life matters to me personally - this notebook uses the 10W version of the MX 150, not the 25W version, quite misleading on Huawei's part.  The same hardware is also available in the ThinkPad T480, but with the full 25W SKU.

 

Dig deeper into the ownership of Huawei.  The largest shareholder is Shenzhen Huawei Investment Holding Co, which is functionally a labor union co-owned by the city of Shenzhen and the native Chinese employees of Huawei, it was created by the provincial government of Guandong, which in turn is only an extension of the CPC in Beijing. In effect, the Chinese government owns about 30% of Huawei by proxy.

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4 hours ago, Uber Hamburgler said:

That notebook looks great, but it wasn't just because of the the brand that I dismissed it.  The MX 150 only has 2GB of VRAM, which gives me issues with some models.  Also, IMO, super low end GPUs like that take more in battery life and price than they add in capability - not that battery life matters to me personally - this notebook uses the 10W version of the MX 150, not the 25W version, quite misleading on Huawei's part.  The same hardware is also available in the ThinkPad T480, but with the full 25W SKU.

 

Dig deeper into the ownership of Huawei.  The largest shareholder is Shenzhen Huawei Investment Holding Co, which is functionally a labor union co-owned by the city of Shenzhen and the native Chinese employees of Huawei, it was created by the provincial government of Guandong, which in turn is only an extension of the CPC in Beijing. In effect, the Chinese government owns about 30% of Huawei by proxy.

Yeah and Tencent probably owns 80% majority of any game or app you install on your phone that they own 20% in. They are massively massive. They have MUX switches in them so they use integrated GPUs and the new 2018 version has the MX250 which is more powerful than the MX150. I use mine for video editing in premiere, programming in VB and java, photo editing in photoshop, and gaming in Dolphin emulator. Handles it all great but I did undervolt it, repaste, and added a heatpipe and thermal pads.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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May I know why you need dGPU+eGPU? Cannot accept 1080p display?

 

Also, you didn't mention your budget?

Desktop specs:

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB Gigabyte B550M DS3H mATX

Asrock Challenger Pro OC Radeon RX 6700 XT Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (8Gx2) 3600MHz CL18 Kingston NV2 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD

Montech Century 850W Gold Tecware Nexus Air (Black) ATX Mid Tower

Laptop: Lenovo Ideapad 5 Pro 16ACH6

Phone: Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro 8+128

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2 hours ago, GeneXiS_X said:

May I know why you need dGPU+eGPU? Cannot accept 1080p display?

 

Also, you didn't mention your budget?

It's not necessarily that I won't accept a 1080p display, but only if everything else is perfect.  I would not accept a Lenovo notebook with a 1080p display; resolution aside, everything else about them is sub-par.  Hell, I'm running my current 4K display at 1080p to reduce system thermals and fan noise (if only by 5C).

 

I also don't necessarily need eGPU, but I'm already invested in it.  Besides, I'm already invested in Thunderbolt storage and dock so Thunderbolt is a necessity even without using an eGPU.  So if there is a notebook with a GPU better than the P2000 (equivalent to a GTX 1050Ti), I wouldn't turn away, but I don't need it away from home.

 

My budget is ~$2000.  Like I said initially, I already bought a ThinkPad P1 (same as the X1 Extreme, but with a Quadro), I spent $1800 on it.   I am mostly happy with it, but switching between it an the Surface Book (gen 1.5) for a couple days while setting it up, I keep the keyboard and track pad were more like the Surface.  I know I'm being a little bitchy, but it's coming from an annoyance with ThinkPad keyboard worship that I blindly believed.

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7 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah and Tencent probably owns 80% majority of any game or app you install on your phone that they own 20% in. They are massively massive. They have MUX switches in them so they use integrated GPUs and the new 2018 version has the MX250 which is more powerful than the MX150. I use mine for video editing in premiere, programming in VB and java, photo editing in photoshop, and gaming in Dolphin emulator. Handles it all great but I did undervolt it, repaste, and added a heatpipe and thermal pads.

Interesting.  I thought the MX250 was just a rebadged 150, I'll have to look more at it.  I've repasted a laptop before, but I have a problem in principle with doing it on something brand new, still under warranty.

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I'm having difficulties trying to give you recommendations:

1. Non 1080p display and centered keyboard are limiting your options

2. If you really want solid build quality, premium business laptops / mobile workstations are the only choices. Can try Alienware laptops if you want, however they have gamer look and have worse QC

 

Also if possible, sort your requirements from most important to least important

Desktop specs:

Spoiler

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB Gigabyte B550M DS3H mATX

Asrock Challenger Pro OC Radeon RX 6700 XT Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (8Gx2) 3600MHz CL18 Kingston NV2 1TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD

Montech Century 850W Gold Tecware Nexus Air (Black) ATX Mid Tower

Laptop: Lenovo Ideapad 5 Pro 16ACH6

Phone: Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro 8+128

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I'd like to thank everyone for their time, it seems I am looking for something more unique than I was expecting.  While still unimpressed by the Thinkpad keyboard, I am getting accustomed to it. So I'll be keeping the P1.  

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