Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid of Linux Gaming

[Heeroo]

19 minutes ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Another thing I would like to add from the one I already said are both good an bad ones.

One bad thing will surely be 144Hz support, not all desktop environments will correctly support it and even smooth 144Hz scrolling on browsers, and let's also talk about missing hardware acceleration by default. Surely, things that can be fixed in the future...
For now, GNOME 3.32 is the only one who decently supports 144Hz for windows, and also for games there are some performance issues like Xfce and Mate who do not disable the desktop effects by design.
And for multi-monitors there is no mixed refresh rate support and not even multiple v-sync on multiple monitors due to X.org technical limitation, and it's mandatory for NVIDIA because you can't use Wayland. But again, on wayland there are some performance issue as well with Xwayland games. A bit annoying.

Another bad thing is the echo-cancel microphone support, which has to be enabled with CLI because there is no GUI for adding pulse audio modules.
And I already spoke about broken driver support, not every config will be working flawlessly.

There are some common issues with ALC892 and 1220 realtek chipsets and AMD mobos with crackling microphone input who are not being solved currently.

Some good things though, is the native controller support for PS4 who do not need support and will correctly be detected plug&play seamlessly for example.

 

Is an open source implementation, so not basically really "windowsly" its a free alternative
There is even a Directx 9 driver native support on open source AMD drivers....called gallium 9, that means it's not relying on OpenGL and will have native windows performance

 

I know that by myself, but there are some good programs like Davinci Resolve I personally use, and Krita which are fine for me for what I'm doing
Also, KDEnlive, Olive are great alternatives at least for me.

Obviously are not if you rely on the adobe suite

i have ubuntu 19.04 installed right now, using 144hz monitor. Worked fine, only Deepin and Cinnamon really made problems. Don't know where you got the Gnome 3.32 supports 144hz... 

[Chunchunmaru_]

1 minute ago, Tecardo said:

i have ubuntu 19.04 installed right now, using 144hz monitor. Worked fine, only Deepin and Cinnamon really made problems. Don't know where you got the Gnome 3.32 supports 144hz... 

Ubuntu 19.04 uses it, so it works, and btw it's in the gnome changelog gitlab, this fix got implemented in 3.32

Before GNOME was forced to sync everything in 60Hz

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/148

[Heeroo]

1 minute ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Ubuntu 19.04 uses it, so it works, and btw it's in the gnome changelog gitlab, this fix got implemented in 3.32

Before GNOME was forced to sync everything in 60Hz

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/148

seriously  i never noticed, i used 18.04 18.10 and so, explains why it feels so smooth 

 

[Tristerin]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

They keep on saying that for the last 15 years...

This sums up what my diehard Linux friends have been saying for...the last 15 years.  Well said.

[Ceru]

Short question: How about VR (vive) support. recommended or doesn't work?

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, ThaChillera said:

Or until april 30th, when they drop support

That's one theory sure.

The trouble is my work under 14.04 relies on init scripts and not systemD.

I set up a parallel install and tried 16.04LTS and nothing worked right (big surprise I know) and the time to re-config everything over to SystemD is bloody well not worth the hassle.

Probably have to do investigate Deunvo (or whatever the SystemD-free Debian is called) at some point in time.

[Radium_Angel]

4 minutes ago, Ceru said:

Short question: How about VR (vive) support. recommended or doesn't work?

Probably not, unless it's plug n play. 

Easiest way to know for sure is google "item plus (distro) Linux" and see what you get.

 

[SkyHound0202]

Again, a sneaky title change:

Original: Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid of Linux Gaming

Now: Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming

 

What's going on?

[Chunchunmaru_]

6 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

That's one theory sure.

The trouble is my work under 14.04 relies on init scripts and not systemD.

I set up a parallel install and tried 16.04LTS and nothing worked right (big surprise I know) and the time to re-config everything over to SystemD is bloody well not worth the hassle.

Probably have to do investigate Deunvo (or whatever the SystemD-free Debian is called) at some point in time.

Is probably unclean as hell, but I'm sure you could port those init.d style scripts on systemd

[Brennan Price]

I rather like these writer videos, we're truly getting to content that I reckon many viewers enjoy for sure (I know I'm enjoying them). When is a video on X58 coming out then? Just to prove everyone wrong that it's still a decent platform  

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I would love to see more from Anthony on Linux, especially Beginners to Linux Mint type videos. I love his laid back, no hype but still very knowledgeable approach and his pleasant voice.

 

@GabenJr

[Drak3]

Meanwhile ZDNet did an article yesterday on why Linux for desktop is in trouble...

[Emily Young]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Meanwhile ZDNet did an article yesterday on why Linux for desktop is in trouble...

A lot of people are screaming about how there's not "one" Linux distro and that's hurting adoption. While that may be true to some degree, the distros that are currently out ahead in terms of usability are pretty dang good on their own. The problem as I see it is basically this (ironically unironically):

 

 

Ubuntu was once considered the poster child for Linux, and in some cases still is, but it's clearly not the best solution now. And that's kind of the problem with coming behind one distro - It's not actually useful to look at it that way. Android's virtually in the same situation with every vendor having their own flavour, but nobody's complaining about that causing a major issue with adoption (plenty are complaining about package and especially update availability). The difference is Android is attached to shiny phones with compelling specs and designs, whereas Linux doesn't have that (mostly...)

 

Overall though, if "the Linux world" rallied behind a single distro, I'd nominate Pop!_OS.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, GabenJr said:

A lot of people are screaming about how there's not "one" Linux distro and that's hurting adoption.

And they'd be right.

 

2 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

Android's virtually in the same situation with every vendor having their own flavour, but nobody's complaining about that causing a major issue with adoption

It's not virtually the same. It's not remotely the same. Every version of Android runs APKs the same. Most major vendors have agreed upon a software center. The flavors are little more than UI tweaks and niche features.

 

Whereas desktop Linux is largely a shitshow of arbitrary fuckery on what installers and programs work and which don't, what distros just kill each other (such as Kali/Backtrack and Ubuntu), and for the most part, overall quality stuck in the early to mid 2000's.

 

Hell, in ZDNet's article, Torvalds is quoted as saying that Android and ChromeOS are what Linux needs to be in order to be viable for anything more than a small subset of users. That the arbitrary fragmentation and overall quality in distros like Mint, Ubuntu, hinder Linux.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Deleted by poster.

[Oalei]

OK i cant download any apps into my Pop OS for some reasons can someone help me? it just stops midway

[Granular]

Terrific video, guys.

 

I started out using Windows.

Then dual-booted.

After witnessing the horrors of Windows 10, I wiped the Windows partition and ran Windows programs in Wine and in VMs.

Now I can't be bothered. If it doesn't run natively on Linux, I'm not using it.

After watching this video, I might be tempted to try Lutris and Proton, if I find the time and money to game again.

[Chunchunmaru_]

6 hours ago, Drak3 said:

It's not virtually the same. It's not remotely the same. Every version of Android runs APKs the same. Most major vendors have agreed upon a software center.

The flavors are little more than UI tweaks and niche features. Whereas desktop Linux is largely a shitshow of arbitrary fuckery on what installers and programs work and which don't, what distros just kill each other (such as Kali/Backtrack and Ubuntu), and for the most part, overall quality stuck in the early to mid 2000's.

 

Hell, in ZDNet's article, Torvalds is quoted as saying that Android and ChromeOS are what Linux needs to be in order to be viable for anything more than a small subset of users. That the arbitrary fragmentation and overall quality in distros like Mint, Ubuntu, hinder Linux.

Do you think Windows is not the same?

It's even worse, there is no universal standard on Windows too, often people here just throw their .exe with a bunch of shared libraries in a folder, other make their own installer with random spyware and bloatware, other just use universal installers too, or make an .msi (the windows "standard" which no one uses)

In linux there are a bunch, none of them includes spyware or toolbars, and it's often a developer fault if he does know how to develop software.
While making a debian package may not be compatible with something like arch (even though you could extract the binary and libraries manually) there are other like .snap or .flatpak or .appimage https://appimage.org/  which work almost perfecty 

PackageKit is a front-end for managing different package managers and is used from the GNOME and KDE app centers to be compatible with both arch-based distros (for pacman) and debian ones, while offering compatibility with flatpaks and snaps

And I don't even understand why complaining about different distros adopting different programs, those have nothing to do with the actual development and improvements, GNOME project is distro-independent, systemd is, KDE is, and I don't even understand why just stating the overall quality sticking to mid 2000's considering how much more developed desktops environment in features like phone integration KDE connect, google drive integration (GNOME and KDE), customization

If people there are just complaining about bugs and issues, linux desktop marketshare is less than 2% and the developers are mostly not paid and it's basically community work, they do not even have people available for testing, so stable releases are supposed to work only on the most common setups (or supported OEM linux computers)
By myself I often reported bugs who people always complained about but never told them to developers, where they got fixed eventually

As for that article, I bet is just some drama as usual like people do the same for Windows

 

6 hours ago, GabenJr said:

A lot of people are screaming about how there's not "one" Linux distro and that's hurting adoption. While that may be true to some degree, the distros that are currently out ahead in terms of usability are pretty dang good on their own. The problem as I see it is basically this (ironically unironically):

Yes, sort of

But honestly for me it's not that big deal, I just using ubuntu and it doesn't take me that much time just to add more ppas, but I admit PoPOS it's appealing, I didn't even know about ubuntu distros with nvidia drivers preinstalled !
 

Quote

Android's virtually in the same situation with every vendor having their own flavour, but nobody's complaining about that causing a major issue with adoption (plenty are complaining about package and especially update availability). The difference is Android is attached to shiny phones with compelling specs and designs, whereas Linux doesn't have that (mostly...)

Also most of android phones have closed drivers, for everything, making them hard as hell to update since their implementation on android really sucks, and not having drivers in the mainline kernel means proprietary blobbing and everything is in the hand of OEM's

And closed drivers not using DKMS means you cannot update the kernel, exposing the system to vulnerabilities which is not something you want.

DKMS has been the standard for proprietary drivers working in different linux kernel versions, and so far it's working decently, it's used by NVIDIA and VMWare for their drivers for example.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

i'm seeing some stuff like oh Linux has too many distro's and that's bad. it isn't. different usecases require different update models etc. 

 

if you want to use Linux for a server or something else where reboots are rare you want an LTS release and a fixed release schedule. it might be a bit out of date but that's fine. 

 

if you want to run games or take advantage of the bleeding edge in terms of Wine and DXVK then a rolling release is MUCH better. you get the latest software and patches. the issue with it tis that's less stable, and you get updates almost daily. that's not a problem on a gaming pc that will be turned off when the user goes to sleep, and often it's not a real issue if something breaks. it's easy enough to troubleshoot or to use another computer for a few days while you fix it. 

 

 

as for what i recommend, for a gaming pc where you want the latest in terms of updates use Manjaro. it's a beautiful distro that's quite stable even though it's rolling-release. there is also a massive community behind it, and for most things you can take advantage of the Arch Wiki, which is a wonderful resource for troubleshooting / setting stuff up. 

[mach]

Let me share my view on why Linux is intimidating to new users.

First of all, there are so many "names"!

In the video, there are KDE, LXQt, XFCE, Deepin, Pantheon, Budgie, Rufus, Wine, Lutris, proton etc.

Yes I know if you're an experienced Linux user, these names may be as natural as breathing to you. 

I might even look really dumb thinking they are a problem.

But windows, mac os, android are popular and easy to use for a reason.

_____ launcher, ______ store, _______ browser, ________ manager etc.

Just looking at the names you can kinda figure out their functions, right?

 

Look at the stuff on Linux! I am sure they could be acronyms that make all the sense. (or the devs just choose the names they like, idk)

But as a total noob I'd have to google each of them / read the description to know what they are.

There are so many "you need this piece of software to make ____ works". And that's one more piece of software I'll have to learn about.

Not to mention so many of them are developed by 3rd party dev. Which one to choose and trust? Time to google more. 

When Anthony showed how to install nvidia driver on Manjaro, I can see there are 4 driver options available. Which one? There's another googling for me.

 

The commonly criticized problem of command typing. Oh no I don't think that's exactly the problem.

Copy and paste. Follow the step by step from the dev. That's easy.

The intimidating part is, because you have so many options to so many things on Linux, sometimes that software or driver just wouldn't install.

The terminal spit out a page of error message, or just plainly got stuck. How could a beginner solve that?

 

To most non-linux users, that's just too much effort to be made.

Btw Anthony did a great job making this video so beginners would have somewhere to start from.

(although the existence of such a tutorial kind of signifying the problem of Linux)

[cryosis_]

32 minutes ago, mach said:

First of all, there are so many "names"!

In the video, there are KDE, LXQt, XFCE, Deepin, Pantheon, Budgie, Rufus, Wine, Lutris, proton etc.

Yes I know if you're an experienced Linux user, these names may be as natural as breathing to you. 

I might even look really dumb thinking they are a problem.

But windows, mac os, android are popular and easy to use for a reason.

_____ launcher, ______ store, _______ browser, ________ manager etc.

Just looking at the names you can kinda figure out their functions, right?

Possibly, but I'm hard-pressed to say that Linux has this problem with a lot of things.

 

For desktop environments you have:

KDE --> The K Desktop Environment

XFCE --> The XForms Common Environment

LXDE --> Lightweight X11 Desktop Environment

 

For non-desktop environments often WM (Window Manager) is integrated into the name; i3WM, BSPWM, AwesomeWM

 

There are of course also items that you don't know what they do; Deepin, Pantheon etc. However, I don't understand why it's a problem that you have to google those. For plenty of things, we simply say that they are a google search away. Not to mention the amount of software in Windows / Android that we don't know beforehand what it does. What does "Steam" mean to someone who hasn't heard of Valve before? Or "C++ 2017"? "DirectX Redistributable"? Or even in your example; what exactly does a launcher do? Is it just something that sits between your homescreen and the applications and takes care of launching them, or is it actually an entirely new front-end for your home screen? Those are things you start picking up over time, and things we kind of were forced to pick up over time because we were forced to use Windows for most games. Now that there's a choice it's very appealing to go for the simpler choice of Windows because you already know it.

 

42 minutes ago, mach said:

There are so many "you need this piece of software to make ____ works". And that's one more piece of software I'll have to learn about.

It's completely the opposite. In Linux this is done for you in most cases because the Package Manager figures out what you need, installs it and sends you on your merry way. Have you ever opened a Windows program only to see a message along the likes of "The program can't start because MSVCP140.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem." ? What is MSVCP140.dll ? I google that, I come across a janky site like missing-dlls.russia and download seven viruses. This is NOT non-existant in Linux, but it happens a lot less because dependencies are registered.

 

45 minutes ago, mach said:

Not to mention so many of them are developed by 3rd party dev. Which one to choose and trust? Time to google more. 

This is already an issue on Windows. We're fine by downloading gigabytes to terabytes of game data from companies because they are companies, despite there being rumours about the Epic Launcher including spyware, for example. Anyone who googles "Fortnite Download" gets first linked to the Epic Games site where they download the launcher, so they'd need an additilonal google check of "Epic Games Launcher" to come across the allegations. 

 

 

I totally can understand that Linux is harder to get into than Windows, and there could be more work on making it easier. But there's loop there. Not enough people use it, so it's not profitable to make it easier to use. It's not easier to use, so people don't use it. Additionally, there are still things that are hit-and-miss on Linux, especially peripherals. Linux fans have been shouting for years that it's finally time, but they're more likely to know how to use it, because they already have. We're just hoping that others find it worthwhile to learn how to use Linux efficiently and it gets the boost in popularity it deserves.

[Chunchunmaru_]

1 hour ago, mach said:

Let me share my view on why Linux is intimidating to new users.

First of all, there are so many "names"!

In the video, there are KDE, LXQt, XFCE, Deepin, Pantheon, Budgie, Rufus, Wine, Lutris, proton etc.

You don't necessarily need to know all those terms, you can just use Ubuntu but you need to know it's different and just has different programs, so if you don't like it there are just a lot of good options to decide.

You can either choose the most recommended one like Ubuntu/PopOS for example if you do not care about maximizing your productivity like heavily customize a desktop

Wine is just a program like proton, rufus (which is from windows btw) and lutris.
 

 

1 hour ago, mach said:

But as a total noob I'd have to google each of them / read the description to know what they are.

There are so many "you need this piece of software to make ____ works". And that's one more piece of software I'll have to learn about.

Not to mention so many of them are developed by 3rd party dev. Which one to choose and trust? Time to google more. When Anthony showed how to install nvidia driver on Manjaro, I can see there are 4 driver options available. Which one? There's another googling for me.
 

Well you actually do those things on Windows too... And since Linux is Not windows, and it's not meant to be a replacement, it's normal to have different programs, the same happens on MacOS, wine is here too

You have driver options on Windows, once again, you can either choose to use the Windows ones, or download from a list of 20 in the nvidia website, or you can just choose the most updated one, exactly the same as Linux

Quote

The intimidating part is, because you have so many options to so many things on Linux, sometimes that software or driver just wouldn't install.

The terminal spit out a page of error message, or just plainly got stuck. How could a beginner solve that?

 

To most non-linux users, that's just too much effort to be made.

This is not always the case, the truth is you can either be lucky because yours is a supported and compatible without bugs, or configuration, or you don't
In this case you can either wait for bugs to be fixed, or just use windows.

There would be some cases where you can use Linux with no problems at all, it should be said for obvious reasons is far to be perfect and it will need some time, but the improvements are constant and as the current state, some people would just work with it flawlessly
 

[Egg-Roll]

@GabenJr Please tell me James was just playing the "I know nothing about Linux" card, because that was the most painful part of watching it.

 

15 hours ago, floofer said:

I wouldn’t say afraid. Windows is still a lot more appealing, not to mention already pre-installed. 87% of the market is still pretty high. I don’t see that changing any time soon.

Microsoft should be afraid, because while the average person now is not very tech savvy that is quickly changing, I can tell you one thing once I build my new computer this bloatware garbage is getting thrown out the door, it's abusive, time consuming, needs you to be its slave when updates come along and whines too much, basically the worst relationship you could ever get into. I don't game much anymore so not much of a loss to me, but I look at games and if they work on Linux then I'll buy if not well guess the devs don't care about money. Not to mention most of my games work on Linux that I play anyways even before Steam got smart.

 

12 hours ago, SkyHound0202 said:

Again, a sneaky title change:

Original: Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid of Linux Gaming

Now: Microsoft Should be VERY Afraid - Noob's Guide to Linux Gaming

 

What's going on?

Title wasn't preforming well with YouTube algorithm, want this BS to stop? Force YT to change. Good luck agent you will need it.

[Drak3]

3 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Do you think Windows is not the same?

I can take a program meant for a consumer version of Windows (such as Steam), and run it on Enterprise, LTSB, etc. The differences boil down to feature lockouts, but that’s a tier system that still doesn’t affect what I can do within Windows.

 

Whereas programs made for Ubuntu will not run in Kali and might not run in distros like Arch, Debian, etc.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

@mach sure, learning Linux involves a lot of googling. but that's with anything. if i told you to edit a regstry value in Windows to fix a problem you'd have to google that too. 

 

a lot of pages for apps are clearly laid out with commands already made for you that you can copy-paste. 

 

now with Proton everything is done for you. there are games that require additional stuff but that is documented well and will be among the top results if you google it. 

 

getting away from Windows and learning a whole new OS can be tough at first but it's worth it  

 

besides this goes for macOS too. i use that as a daily OS and at first i had to google how to do stuff too. but once you learn it gets much easier.