Offsite Unraid/Plex Backup Service

[xl3b4n0nx]

I am currently using Crashplan for Small Business to backup about 17 TB of data from my Unraid server. 8.5 TB of that is Media for Plex and 4 TB is backups of my other systems. Both of those are essentially not backed up because of how long it is taking. Is there a better offsite backup service I could use for this amount of data? Am I just better off building another Unraid box for this (already have a PC, but no drives)? I can put the machine at my parents house, but I kind of don't want to maintain two servers. 

[WereCatf]

22 minutes ago, xl3b4n0nx said:

Both of those are essentially not backed up because of how long it is taking. Is there a better offsite backup service I could use for this amount of data?

Is the limiting factor Crashplan, or is it your upload-bandwidth? If you're being limited by your own upload-bandwidth, then switching services will do jack shit.

22 minutes ago, xl3b4n0nx said:

I can put the machine at my parents house

But then you'd be limited by both your parents' download-bandwidth and your own upload-bandwidth.

[xl3b4n0nx]

It is definitely limited by Crashplan. I would double my speed or more by having a machine at my parents house.

[Windows7ge]

For me personally I'm more into the DIY approach. It does make everything your own responsibility but it gives you full control over your data. Also if you set it up right the amount of regular maintenance you will have to do on it should be minimal.

 

I don't know how unRAID licences work here but if unRAID supports replication you could save a few bucks (assuming you have to buy another key) and run something like FreeNAS with ZFS. It'd be a fine option for the application.

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, Windows7ge said:

Also if you set it up right the amount of regular maintenance you will have to do on it should be minimal.

This is what I was thinking. I mean, if the other machine is just a backup-server, then the only maintenance one should need to do on it is open it up and clean any dust once a year or so. Updates can be automated, the system can email you if there are any SMART-errors or such, keeping the domainname pointing to the right IP-address can be made fully automatic and so on.

[xl3b4n0nx]

That is definitely my option if I can't find a decent backup service. I do like the additional control over my data, but the box would be 2 hours away and doing any needed physical maintenance would be kind of a pain.

 

My struggle is that I am already halfway there with the DIY approach with the PC already built with the exception of the drives. Setting up another copy of unraid would be really simple as well. A plug n play docker on the unraid box for a backup service would be quick and easy to set up with no maintenance on my part.

[xl3b4n0nx]

I guess a few hundred dollars in HDDs is probably my best option.

[Windows7ge]

2 minutes ago, xl3b4n0nx said:

That is definitely my option if I can't find a decent backup service. I do like the additional control over my data, but the box would be 2 hours away and doing any needed physical maintenance would be kind of a pain.

 

My struggle is that I am already halfway there with the DIY approach with the PC already built with the exception of the drives. Setting up another copy of unraid would be really simple as well. A plug n play docker on the unraid box for a backup service would be quick and easy to set up with no maintenance on my part.

Well when it comes to backups there's the 3-2-1 rule. If you wanted you could concentrate on an onsite backup and worry about off-site at a later date if your only available location is a 2 hour commute away.

[xl3b4n0nx]

That's the exact model I am going for with my backup (got it from TWIT). I have local backups of the important files (not Plex media library) and crashplan is working as an offsite for those. I just want to get an offsite for the media library too.

[Windows7ge]

5 minutes ago, xl3b4n0nx said:

That's the exact model I am going for with my backup (got it from TWIT). I have local backups of the important files (not Plex media library) and crashplan is working as an offsite for those. I just want to get an offsite for the media library too.

I can't really help there with cloud options. All I know of are Google cloud/Google Drive, OneDrive, & Apples iCloud. I don't know their rates or plans.

 

Really though you could probably pay a trusted friend, neighbor, or co-worker nearby a few $/month to host it for you at their place. Just lock down the console with a password and map the WebUI to a network port not in use by the home.

 

Or throw an extra drive in it and setup an SMB share they can use. Make their own backups of their stuff.

[xl3b4n0nx]

I can host it at my parents so I wont even need to pay. Thanks for the suggestions!

[Mikensan]

If the spare mobo you have doesn't have IPMI, one option is to buy a board that does but is compatible with your CPU or buy a IPKVM - further reducing any trips out to your parents house.

 

Backblaze is $6/m for unlimited storage - only thing is they only allow you to backup local disks and I believe they only have clients for Windows / Mac.

 

Also curious, crashplan throttles their business plans? Once you've uploaded the data, I can't imagine even throttled your daily differentials being that much data.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

On 4/5/2019 at 9:54 PM, xl3b4n0nx said:

It is definitely limited by Crashplan. I would double my speed or more by having a machine at my parents house.

It's very definitely limited by Crashplan. They are one of the flakiest, most unreliable outfits I've ever seen.

[dalekphalm]

20 hours ago, Mikensan said:

If the spare mobo you have doesn't have IPMI, one option is to buy a board that does but is compatible with your CPU or buy a IPKVM - further reducing any trips out to your parents house.

 

Backblaze is $6/m for unlimited storage - only thing is they only allow you to backup local disks and I believe they only have clients for Windows / Mac.

 

Also curious, crashplan throttles their business plans? Once you've uploaded the data, I can't imagine even throttled your daily differentials being that much data.

https://support.code42.com/CrashPlan/4/Troubleshooting/Backup_speed_does_not_match_available_bandwidth

 

According to Crashplan themselves, you're sharing bandwidth (on their side) with everyone else who might be uploading files. So while they "don't specifically" say they're throttling people, it seems like they do hit an upper limit on their own bandwidth fairly regularly.

 

To the OP: Make sure you don't have throttling turned on in your agent.

[xl3b4n0nx]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:26 PM, Mikensan said:

If the spare mobo you have doesn't have IPMI, one option is to buy a board that does but is compatible with your CPU or buy a IPKVM - further reducing any trips out to your parents house.

 

Backblaze is $6/m for unlimited storage - only thing is they only allow you to backup local disks and I believe they only have clients for Windows / Mac.

 

Also curious, crashplan throttles their business plans? Once you've uploaded the data, I can't imagine even throttled your daily differentials being that much data.

The issue is getting the data up there. It is estimating 1 year to upload it. That's not including the periodic synchronizations which can take days. For small file Crashplan is fine. Large files sometimes can't finish before the next check which can prevent it from getting there.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Crashplan has gone downhill considerably. I don't recommend them for anything!

[Mikensan]

15 hours ago, xl3b4n0nx said:

The issue is getting the data up there. It is estimating 1 year to upload it. That's not including the periodic synchronizations which can take days. For small file Crashplan is fine. Large files sometimes can't finish before the next check which can prevent it from getting there.

Ah understood, I thought you already had your data on crashplan and something drastically changed. I feel your pain but for a different reason, my upload is capped out at 10mb/s and I have 5TB I'm trying to push to the cloud.

[xl3b4n0nx]

On 4/19/2019 at 8:38 AM, Mikensan said:

Ah understood, I thought you already had your data on crashplan and something drastically changed. I feel your pain but for a different reason, my upload is capped out at 10mb/s and I have 5TB I'm trying to push to the cloud.

I feel that. Its rough. I already have a new server build planned (Ryzen 3600G based) and the current one will become the backup. I want to see how effective backing up to that machine via Crashplan will be. If I do it on my LAN before I move it, it will copy at gigabit speed and then the incremental backups after that will hopefully be relatively painless.

[AbsoluteFool]

There should be an LTT "community service" with offsite backups. Could simply use WebRTC and P2P and torrent the files around. Or a forum thread with offering XGB backup storage for XGB backup storage in return.

 

[dalekphalm]

18 minutes ago, AbsoluteFool said:

There should be an LTT "community service" with offsite backups. Could simply use WebRTC and P2P and torrent the files around. Or a forum thread with offering XGB backup storage for XGB backup storage in return.

 

Sounds like a good idea, but for liability reasons, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. No way I'm letting random strangers store who knows what on my hardware.

 

Not to mention, what happens if data loss happens? Who's responsible? What's the outcome? It seems like a great and friendly thing, but there are so many factors that would need to be considered before such a thing could happen.

[Mikensan]

15 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Sounds like a good idea, but for liability reasons, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. No way I'm letting random strangers store who knows what on my hardware.

 

Not to mention, what happens if data loss happens? Who's responsible? What's the outcome? It seems like a great and friendly thing, but there are so many factors that would need to be considered before such a thing could happen.

Same concerns - random stranger gets dinged by whatevre 3 letter agency you can think of, they find out said person stores files on your equipment. Now they have a warrant and cause to search all of your data... I don't need that in my life lol.

 

 

I do love the idea, and I have a couple friends I trust well enough. Just my upload sucks so it is a bit of a one sided relationship lol.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Mikensan said:

Same concerns - random stranger gets dinged by whatevre 3 letter agency you can think of, they find out said person stores files on your equipment. Now they have a warranty and cause to search all of your data... I don't need that in my life lol.

 

 

I do love the idea, and I have a couple friends I trust well enough. Just my upload sucks so it is a bit of a one sided relationship lol.

Indeed, I would totally offer that for personal friends and family that I trust explicitly. But I don't need some random dude on the Internet storing illegal content they pulled off the dark web on my server

[AbsoluteFool]

11 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Sounds like a good idea, but for liability reasons, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. No way I'm letting random strangers store who knows what on my hardware.

 

Not to mention, what happens if data loss happens? Who's responsible? What's the outcome? It seems like a great and friendly thing, but there are so many factors that would need to be considered before such a thing could happen.

I do fully understand this concern not only the fact that you need to trust a random person with your files. Or what files you are helping people store. While there are ways to limit the servers owner access to your specific files, controlling what files are put on your server is what i believe is the tricky part.

 

If i was to offer someone storage i would simply give out a VM with full SSH root access, and let them change password/username setup encryption etc.

This way i would atleast feel that i've given the user options to how they want to secure their data.

 

What i believe the challenges are is this:

 

• How do you know that files stored are not ilegal.
• Who is responsible for dataloss. (Must of course be the server owner who have access to it,)

But the difficult answer is: What happens in the event of dataloss? There are really no way to hold me for example personally responsible. So the way i see it would just have to be a risk factor in a community service.

 

However if there was to be kind of a "management team" it could be possible to earn some sort of badges based on the service liability. Like a good/bad status for the service provider. When talking about management team, for the user who wish to store data it could also be possible for the management team to check that there are no ilegal files (With concent of course). I would never store any private or sensitive information on a community service

 

This of course have more challenges than this. But if done atleast somewhat correctly as a community service it will be better than no offsite backup at all.

 

[Mikensan]

7 hours ago, AbsoluteFool said:

I do fully understand this concern not only the fact that you need to trust a random person with your files. Or what files you are helping people store. While there are ways to limit the servers owner access to your specific files, controlling what files are put on your server is what i believe is the tricky part.

 

If i was to offer someone storage i would simply give out a VM with full SSH root access, and let them change password/username setup encryption etc.

This way i would atleast feel that i've given the user options to how they want to secure their data.

 

What i believe the challenges are is this:

 

• How do you know that files stored are not ilegal.
• Who is responsible for dataloss. (Must of course be the server owner who have access to it,)

But the difficult answer is: What happens in the event of dataloss? There are really no way to hold me for example personally responsible. So the way i see it would just have to be a risk factor in a community service.

 

However if there was to be kind of a "management team" it could be possible to earn some sort of badges based on the service liability. Like a good/bad status for the service provider. When talking about management team, for the user who wish to store data it could also be possible for the management team to check that there are no ilegal files (With concent of course). I would never store any private or sensitive information on a community service

 

This of course have more challenges than this. But if done atleast somewhat correctly as a community service it will be better than no offsite backup at all.

 

The better alternative is creating a cluster of storage amongst people and having data striped across every server (akin to gluster or ceph), that way no one person has the whole file (reduced liability for illegal content), and with parity built in across numerous nodes you greatly reduce chances of data loss.

 

However now you have a complex storage solution with each "node" administrated by one person, lot of hands in the cookie jar. You're also going to be limited by the slowest connection (bandwidth or capability of storage).

 

The reward is too little when there are solutions like Backblaze ($6/m unlimited) or amazon glacier ($.004/gb or $4/tb). 

 

I think with a limited scope of people it is a good idea, to share storage. But community driven and open to the public is a bad idea even though it has good intentions and is a kind gesture. Worked in retail too long to trust the general public *shivers at memories*.