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markopolomp

1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - Cloudflare DNS adding VPN

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Where did you read that? To me it seems like it's not related to 1.1.1.1 at all, other than the app happening to be named 1.1.1.1 (which in itself is kind of unrelated to why Cloudflare made the app). If it doesn't use that IP then it's unrelated. 

It doesnt matter that it's "kind of unrelated" even though it's definitely related. It being in the app called 1.1.1.1 means if they got shit for it, it would look bad on the service as whole, stop trying to act like these are so disparate. It's in the same app!!!!! The app existed before, they are adding this to it, how much more clear could it be


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4 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

It doesnt matter that it's "kind of unrelated" even though it's definitely related. It being in the app called 1.1.1.1 means if they got shit for it, it would look bad on the service as whole, stop trying to act like these are so disparate. It's in the same app!!!!! The app existed before, they are adding this to it, how much more clear could it be

Cloudflare got the IP 1.1.1.1 from APNIC for the purposes of running a DNS service. In return there is some research being done for monitoring and testing DNS stuff. That's where the involvement with APNIC ends. 

 

Cloudflare then created an app called 1.1.1.1 which changes the DNS settings on your phone, so that mobile users thst don't want to change their settings can easily enable the use of the 1.1.1.1 DNS. 

The DNS server(s) with the IP 1.1.1.1 is different from the app called 1.1.1.1. One is an IP, and the other one is just an app. APNIC doesn't have anything to do with the app portion, only the IP the server uses. 

 

What is happening here is that Cloudflare is using their DNS changing app called 1.1.1.1 to also enable a VPN which is most likely not related at all to their DNS service which has the IP 1.1.1.1.

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1.1.1.1 app works as a VPN proxy (while only affecting DNS traffic and not actual data transfers), because no mobile OS supports setting of DNS servers without being rooted and hacked to bits. It's the easiest way to use specific DNS this way.

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3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Cloudflare got the IP 1.1.1.1 from APNIC for the purposes of running a DNS service. In return there is some research being done for monitoring and testing DNS stuff. That's where the involvement with APNIC ends. 

 

Cloudflare then created an app called 1.1.1.1 which changes the DNS settings on your phone, so that mobile users thst don't want to change their settings can easily enable the use of the 1.1.1.1 DNS. 

The DNS server(s) with the IP 1.1.1.1 is different from the app called 1.1.1.1. One is an IP, and the other one is just an app. APNIC doesn't have anything to do with the app portion, only the IP the server uses. 

 

What is happening here is that Cloudflare is using their DNS changing app called 1.1.1.1 to also enable a VPN which is most likely not related at all to their DNS service which has the IP 1.1.1.1.

Holy shit, yes. Just because APNIC isnt involved in making the app means they are going ot be ok with cloudflare doing some nefarious shit with under the guise of the 1.1.1.1 domain which is the fucking name of the app.


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Allow me to remind EVERYONE that we've seen many other VPN providers also claim they don't record data, but guess what? They did.

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On 4/2/2019 at 3:14 AM, Aimi said:

I wonder how this will compare to "proper" VPNs...
Also, is this going to be mobile only?

Most likely only useful for DNS leak and webrtc kind of stuff. But pair this with your own VPN and you should be pretty good


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

1.1.1.1 app works as a VPN proxy (while only affecting DNS traffic and not actual data transfers), because no mobile OS supports setting of DNS servers without being rooted and hacked to bits. It's the easiest way to use specific DNS this way.

You must have never heard of IOS. You can change the DNS of any network you want. Or for the phone phone just install a VPN profile but only for the DNS. That way it work over cellular too


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

You must have never heard of IOS. You can change the DNS of any network you want. Or for the phone phone just install a VPN profile but only for the DNS. That way it work over cellular too

I'm using iPhone for like a month and haven't gone that far yet. And all the guides I've seen either only go with the WiFi network DNS settings or VPN proxy apps like 1.1.1.1.

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11 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Most likely only useful for DNS leak and webrtc kind of stuff. But pair this with your own VPN and you should be pretty good

The original 1.1.1.1 app only changes DNS servers (by installing a VPN), but the new product being discussed here, Warp, is a true VPN. All of your traffic is tunnelled to the nearest Cloudflare datacentre, using the new WireGuard VPN protocol (which aims for minimal overhead). Your traffic is encrypted through the tunnel, to protect you from rogue wifi hotspots etc, just like any other proper VPN.


I don't work for Floatplane Media, so any Floatplane comments that I make are my own and may be incorrect or in conflict with the official view.

 

For Floatplane support, please use the wizard linked in this topic

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1 hour ago, S w a t s o n said:

Holy shit, yes. Just because APNIC isnt involved in making the app means they are going ot be ok with cloudflare doing some nefarious shit with under the guise of the 1.1.1.1 domain which is the fucking name of the app.

Just let it go bro, the tinfoil hatters will always be tinfoil hatters...

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27 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I'm using iPhone for like a month and haven't gone that far yet. And all the guides I've seen either only go with the WiFi network DNS settings or VPN proxy apps like 1.1.1.1.

How is that not changing the DNS then??

19 minutes ago, colonel_mortis said:

The original 1.1.1.1 app only changes DNS servers (by installing a VPN), but the new product being discussed here, Warp, is a true VPN. All of your traffic is tunnelled to the nearest Cloudflare datacentre, using the new WireGuard VPN protocol (which aims for minimal overhead). Your traffic is encrypted through the tunnel, to protect you from rogue wifi hotspots etc, just like any other proper VPN.

Oh interesting. That’s not what I took it as. No way then as a VPN costs a ton more than a DNS


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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22 minutes ago, colonel_mortis said:

Your traffic is encrypted through the tunnel, to protect you from rogue wifi hotspots etc, just like any other proper VPN.

*navigates to next link*

 

> YOU ARE NOW CONNECTED TO THE HOTSPOT AT MCDONALDS. YOU MUST AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS TO CONTINUE

 

... sigh *cycles wifi setting to retry for 1.1.1.1*

 

(at least soon with warp all the public hotspots can stop snooping on me now)

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3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

How is that not changing the DNS then??

Oh interesting. That’s not what I took it as. No way then as a VPN costs a ton more than a DNS

Because they... only work for that particularly network and doesn't even apply to LTE ? Where 1.1.1.1. app applies to everything no matter what network you're on, without manually setting each before use.

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12 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Because they... only work for that particularly network and doesn't even apply to LTE ? Where 1.1.1.1. app applies to everything no matter what network you're on, without manually setting each before use.

No if you make a vpn profile with just the DNS it will work over LTE


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

No if you make a vpn profile with just the DNS it will work over LTE

And how do you do that? I couldn't find anything, all guides just mention VPN proxy apps or WiFi settings.

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12 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And how do you do that? I couldn't find anything, all guides just mention VPN proxy apps or WiFi settings.

You can use OpenVPN and just drop a profile on to your phone


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I'm seeing Jays 2 Cent now Promote VPN.  What's up with all these clowns promoting VPN software?   This is a joke and scam.


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Just now, THraShArD said:

I'm seeing Jays 2 Cent now Promote VPN.  What's up with all these clowns promoting VPN software.   This is a joke and scam.

Huh? What does that have to do with things being a scam? A company can't advertise now?


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Nothing wrong with advertising, but promoting some trendy flight by night operation all at once.   I can't think of the correct term to call this at the moment, but I see the same pattern that happened with Bitcoin.

 

Just the other day I started calling everyone Clowns and my attitude changed.  Everyone and their mother seems to be promoting VPN and it stinks of rotten scam.  I put my foot down after seeing some Flat Earth conspiracy video the other day and at the end they were promoting some VPN. 


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11 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

Holy shit, yes. Just because APNIC isnt involved in making the app means they are going ot be ok with cloudflare doing some nefarious shit with under the guise of the 1.1.1.1 domain which is the fucking name of the app.

APNIC has 0 jurisdiction over the app. 1.1.1.1 is not a trademark APNIC owns and as far as the app portion is concerned it's only a name. They could have called the app Cloudflare DNS if they wanted to. It would have made zero difference. Cloudflare can do whatever they want with the app because it is a separate project and product from the DNS. It's even under its own, separate privacy policy and ToS as the DNS. 

 

Cloudflare could add whatever they want to their app called 1.1.1.1 because it is NOT the DNS service which runs on IP 1.1.1.1.

 

 

The only thing APNIC could do if Cloudflare decided to do things with the app APNIC did not agree with, is not renew the DNS contract when the lease time is up. That's in 4 years.

The vpn portion of the 1.1.1.1 app is however not under the same contract as the DNS service. 

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10 hours ago, imreloadin said:

Just let it go bro, the tinfoil hatters will always be tinfoil hatters...

How am I a tinfoil hat wearer for pointing out that the contract of one product does not apply to a separate product? 

 

Do you people seriously not understand the difference between an app name and an IP adress?

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16 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

APNIC has 0 jurisdiction over the app. 1.1.1.1 is not a trademark APNIC owns and as far as the app portion is concerned it's only a name. They could have called the app Cloudflare DNS if they wanted to. It would have made zero difference. Cloudflare can do whatever they want with the app because it is a separate project and product from the DNS. It's even under its own, separate privacy policy and ToS as the DNS. 

 

Cloudflare could add whatever they want to their app called 1.1.1.1 because it is NOT the DNS service which runs on IP 1.1.1.1.

 

 

The only thing APNIC could do if Cloudflare decided to do things with the app APNIC did not agree with, is not renew the DNS contract when the lease time is up. That's in 4 years.

The vpn portion of the 1.1.1.1 app is however not under the same contract as the DNS service. 

Are you seriously suggesting that APNIC couldnt just decide to end the project if they found out cloudflare was fucking shit up? The conclusion is logical. No one is saying that APNIC has some magical legal jurisdiction or anything. They can end it I'm sure though.

 

As far as I can tell this is a research project not a literal contract btw. I'm 100% sure APNIC can tell cloudflare to fuck off and probably would do so publicly but nicely


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6 hours ago, S w a t s o n said:

Are you seriously suggesting that APNIC couldnt just decide to end the project if they found out cloudflare was fucking shit up? The conclusion is logical. No one is saying that APNIC has some magical legal jurisdiction or anything. They can end it I'm sure though.

 

As far as I can tell this is a research project not a literal contract btw. I'm 100% sure APNIC can tell cloudflare to fuck off and probably would do so publicly but nicely

Cloudflare is on a 5 year contract with APNIC. Just because it is a research project does not mean there isn't a contract in place. That would be completely moronic. Companies doesn't start multi-million dollar projects without any kind of contract or terms in place. 

Hell, it's not even easy to revoke the adress from Cloudflare now because it requires routing changes which could wreck havoc on the internet if done incorrectly and carelessly. 

 

For example the reason why Cloudflare got the address in the first place, is because Geoff Huston wanted insight information into DNS traffic dara on a large scale. Cloudflare got the adress and in return they let Geoff and other people at APNIC look at that traffic. That's most certainly in writing somewhere, in a contract. It's not something they just said to each other over lunch, and if you believe that then you're very naive about how the world works. 

 

Besides, it's in the contract that Cloudflare will be considered to become the permanent owner of 1.1.1.1 after the 5 year contract is up. 

 

 

But none of that even matters for this discussion because THE APP WHICH CHANGES YOUR DNS TO 1.1.1.1 FOR ANDROID AND IOS IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE PROJECT WHICH HAS IT'S OWN TERMS OF SERVICE AND POLICY, WHICH IS COMPLETELY RUN BY CLOUDFLARE AND APNIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. 

 

WARP has 0 things to do with the IP 1.1.1.1. Nothing at all. It's a completely different thing. Just because the app you enable warp in happens to be called 1.1.1.1 does not mean it is the same as the IP assigned to Cloudflare's DNS.

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Stop the argument now.

Of course different people have different views on whether a company is trustworthy, and evidently arguing about it is not getting anywhere.

@LAwLz and @S w a t s o n, if you continue the argument you will get warning points.


I don't work for Floatplane Media, so any Floatplane comments that I make are my own and may be incorrect or in conflict with the official view.

 

For Floatplane support, please use the wizard linked in this topic

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2 hours ago, colonel_mortis said:

Stop the argument now.

Of course different people have different views on whether a company is trustworthy, and evidently arguing about it is not getting anywhere.

@LAwLz and @S w a t s o n, if you continue the argument you will get warning points.

What am I about to get a warning point for? Arguing? You better get ready to give out a lot of warning points if that's against the rules. 

 

I said that I don't trust Cloudflare because they have given me no reason to trust them. Using them as my vpn provider means handing over all of my traffic to them. The response I got to the comment that I don't trust them was a statement from APNIC about a different service which is under a different contract, privacy policy and ToS. The only thing I have done since is point out, over and over, the various ways the DNS service is unrelated to this new vpn service. 

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