Nav's Complete CRT Guide.

[Pasi123]

13 minutes ago, Naveronasis said:

I actually intend to pick up one of these 16:9 CRT tv's to add to my collection but from what I understand... They are capable of 1080i or 720i with a max progressive resolution of half of 1080 (aka 540p). Why idk, is it true? idk. I assume I'll find out. The delay isn't significant and does not from what I understand add any ghosting, but it's not the 0 latency experience of a truly VGA direct input display. I do know that fighting games clubs and enthusiasts say to avoid them. But then again, I'm not a fighting games enthusiast. 

I've never even heard of 720i. Some older HD CRT TV's doesn't support 720p but many does.

 

I'd love to get a Sony KD-34XBR960 (or KV-HR36M31) which is the best 16:9 HD CRT TV ever made but they were never available in Europe. The best European 16:9 Trinitron is a KV-36HQ100 which has the same Super Fine Pitch tube as the XBR960 and HR36 but it doesn't have any HD inputs.

Tbh I don't really even need a better TV than the KV-32FX68E which I already have. It has a Hi-Scan tube which was also used in some HD TV's.

[Kris3456]

Speaking about CRT. I have Sony KV-36HQ100 TV (max: 1024x576i 100 Hz) connected to my computer by special VGA-SCART cable. This model can only use interlaced 50hz signal and it is doubling it, to display flicker free and really superior image.

 

Windows 8 accepted any interlaced resolution made by me in CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) when using Radeon card.

 

 

Now I have Windows 10 and Nvidia GTX 970 and this method is not working. Where is a problem ? In Windows 10 or in Nvidia ? From my observations (uninstalled Nvidia driver) both lacks compatibilty to low interlaced resolutions ?! Windows 10 is not showing them at all and creating such res in Nvidia panel is accepted, but not displayed after "test".

 

Anyway I just ordered old Radeon card and will try more luck with her.

[Kris3456]

edit: it was double post of my original message. Now I write my findings here.

 

So I bought old Radeon HD 3470 and this low res interlaced resolution is working in  Windows 10 without any problem. It means, it is Nvidia drivers fault. Full of crapware like telemetry etc. (must be edited by hand). Without any real control over video card power states (not official nvidiainspector is a master here) and no control over low resolutions. I wish one day You completely loose vs AMD. And no, Your customer is not a moron.

[Naveronasis]

On 5/21/2019 at 12:01 AM, Kris3456 said:

Speaking about CRT. I have Sony KV-36HQ100 TV (max: 1024x576i 100 Hz) connected to my computer by special VGA-SCART cable. This model can only use interlaced 50hz signal and it is doubling it, to display flicker free and really superior image.

 

Windows 8 accepted any interlaced resolution made by me in CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) when using Radeon card.

 

 

Now I have Windows 10 and Nvidia GTX 970 and this method is not working. Where is a problem ? In Windows 10 or in Nvidia ? From my observations (uninstalled Nvidia driver) both lacks compatibilty to low interlaced resolutions ?! Windows 10 is not showing them at all and creating such res in Nvidia panel is accepted, but not displayed after "test".

 

Anyway I just ordered old Radeon card and will try more luck with her.

nvidia control panel is a pain with interlaced, you can use it to make an interlaced resolution then you need to apply it through the display adapter properties, not through nvidia. it's annoying.

[Pasi123]

On 5/21/2019 at 10:01 AM, Kris3456 said:

Speaking about CRT. I have Sony KV-36HQ100 TV (max: 1024x576i 100 Hz) connected to my computer by special VGA-SCART cable. This model can only use interlaced 50hz signal and it is doubling it, to display flicker free and really superior image.

 

Windows 8 accepted any interlaced resolution made by me in CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) when using Radeon card.

 

 

How is the picture quality with the VGA-SCART cable compared to S-Video? And does it work with other TV's too? I have a Sony KV-32FX68E, I have it connected to a PC (with GeForce 8500 GT) via S-Video and it looks pretty good but I'd prefer the better colors of RGB Scart.

The PC has Xubuntu and I use 1024x576p custom resolution which the GPU converts to 720x576i S-Video. In Windows I haven't been able to get 1024x576 resolution working and newer drivers doesn't even have any custom resolution options for S-Video.

[Kris3456]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:34 AM, Pasi123 said:

 

How is the picture quality with the VGA-SCART cable compared to S-Video? And does it work with other TV's too? I have a Sony KV-32FX68E, I have it connected to a PC (with GeForce 8500 GT) via S-Video and it looks pretty good but I'd prefer the better colors of RGB Scart.

The PC has Xubuntu and I use 1024x576p custom resolution which the GPU converts to 720x576i S-Video. In Windows I haven't been able to get 1024x576 resolution working and newer drivers doesn't even have any custom resolution options for S-Video.

Picture quality and colour on RGB SCART is perfect. It's just like on normal VGA going up to 1080i. You can force any resolutions using using CRU (program for EDID simulation) with Radeon card. Just make resolution, reload Windows and it will shown at once. It worked in Win 8 and now in 10 too.

 

 

 

And picture looks like this:

 

But those 100 Hz Sony-s from Europe having Super Fine Pitch (1440x1080i) work only at max x576i 50 Hz anyway. The tube can accept higher res, RGB Euro connector too, but European versions has no circuits to display them properly (there is not an option to disable 100 Hz conversion). But thanks to doubling 50 Hz to 100 Hz internally, there is no flickering at least.

 

Problem in Windows seems related just to NVIDIA. So just buy an old cheap Radeon as I did. Problem can be custom VGA->SCART cable avaiability too (as I know standard cables advertised as: SCART->VGA cable will not work probably ?). In my country i can buy good one for about 10 USD.

 

But You have Sony Hi-Scan tube with 853x1080i, so it seems 1024 cannot be shown horizontally without distortion.

[AllTracTurbo]

This was one of the first threads that came up in my google search when trying to find something out about creating a custom resolution on a CRT and you seemed pretty knowledgeable, so I was wondering if you or someone else here could help.

I am creating a custom 16x9 resolution on a 4x3 CRT (Gateway VX920) and was wondering if the black bars should be counted in the resolution or not. I wouldn't think I should add them because the extra vertical pixels for the black bars just waste scan frequency and make it so I can't run as high of a refresh rate. Nvidia will add the extra pixels if there is already a 4x3 resolution that uses the same number of horizontal pixels, but it will not add them for any other custom resolutions.

My monitor supports up to 1600x1200@75hz. If I go into Nvidia to create a custom 16x9 resolution of 1600x900@75hz, the timings section will show 1600x1200 active pixels and 2160x1250 total pixels when auto timings is chosen. If I choose GTF, DMT, or CVT timings, it will use 900 active vertical pixels and 940 or 942 total vertical pixels. The auto timings option will only add these extra pixels for the black bars if I create a custom widescreen resolution that has the same horizontal pixels as an existing 4x3 resolution. If I choose auto timings on any other resolution, even if I just add 1 pixel so it is 1601x900, the auto timings will be the same as the GTF, DMT, or CVT timings and not add the extra vertical pixels for the black bars.

It looks like it is drawing the full 1600x1200 4x3 image, but only displaying an image in the 1600x900 area. That extra 33% of vertical pixels causes my scan frequency at 75hz to be 93.75khz which is near the max of my monitor. The lower pixel count will only have a scan frequency of 70.65khz which means I can actually run 100hz and just barely stay under the monitors max scan frequency.

The resolution with the extra vertical pixels for the black bars will fit correctly on my monitor without having to adjust it too much with the monitors screen adjustments, but if I create a custom resolution without adding the extra pixels for the black bars, the image will stretch out vertically and fill my monitor. Then I will need to adjust my monitors settings and turn the vertical size all the way down to get it back to the correct aspect ratio for 16x9. Actually, the vertical size setting on my monitor won't go far enough to get it perfectly to the correct aspect, it is still slightly stretched with the setting turned all the way down. I guess I could add some vertical pixels in the timing section and that would allow me to get the aspect set correctly since it won't be stretched as much.

So I was wondering if you know why it would waste scan frequency by telling the monitor to display pixels for the black bars and if there is any negative or benefit to doing it one way or the other. Do you think it could hurt the monitor over time by running it with the vertical size setting all the way down? I'm not sure how that setting adjusts the image in the monitor. I would obviously prefer to display less pixels so that I can run a higher refresh rate, but I'm not sure what the correct way to do it is.

[Legend9]

I just got a KV-32hs420 and was wondering what did you do to true off the post processing and force a 1080i signal to lower the input latency. 

[Naveronasis]

On 10/1/2022 at 11:47 PM, Legend9 said:

I just got a KV-32hs420 and was wondering what did you do to true off the post processing and force a 1080i signal to lower the input latency. 

1080i should pass directly through natively and no change should be needed. It's for 720p or 480i or 240p where the processing delay is present. If your using component adapter then play with the interlaced/progressive option in user menu. 540p should also pass through natively. Should... Also some laptops apparently have issues with latency over external connections so If your using a laptop make sure the output isn't being scaled and that the external display is actually being routed directly from the GPU and not through igpu like how many usbc ports and mini display ports are on some models.

[Naveronasis]

I am thinking of making a 2.0 of this thread... I could update it. But I think it's better to start fresh and provide a link to the OG thread. I have learned a lot since the initial post. I should write more, I did this back when my leg was broken and I had unlimited time. I have over 70 tubes now... and I have begun to show the more rare/expensive one's off at trade shows. (Specifically PGX). I also have an interest in other display tech... So I have some oled stuff and pvm's and presentation monitors, giant CRT projectors, Indextron, and all kinds of neat stuff now.