NVIDIA Fires Shots at AMD’s 7nm Tech - Claims "Can Create Most Energy-efficient GPU in the World Anytime"

[SenKa]

Radeon VII can very easily be shrunk to single slot with water cooling. No nVidia card in the recent past can, to my knowledge/memory.

 

To make the most efficient card you must sacrifice power, to create the most powerful card, you must sacrifice on efficiency and heat.

 

To make the trifecta, you must use water or exotic cooling. Give me an RTX 2080Ti with single slot IO, and we can talk.

 

I smell desperation nVidia, it smells like burnt power delivery circuits on your fancy new RTX cards = )

[Paparachipupopep]

33 minutes ago, SenpaiKaplan said:

I smell desperation nVidia, it smells like burnt power delivery circuits on your fancy new RTX cards = )

Desperate? Are you kidding me? Nvidia are basically toying with AMD, and that's not going to change until AMD or Intel can come out with a game changing Geforce competitor, Zen providing a nice recent example of such upheaval.  All consumers should have their fingers crossed on that front. Nvidia can't risk becoming, or even being seen as a monopoly, I think they have exactly the amount of separation from AMD that they want. If Nvidia came out and buried Radeon, and I honestly believe they could, they'd attract legal scrutiny that could result in them being forced to license their IP to competitors, sell off parts of the company, and other horrific (for Nvidia) consequences. Really, like in any other market ecosystem, it's risk versus reward. There are significant rewards in market share domination, but if the gavel gets dropped on you, the damage can be dramatic and irreversible. The worst case scenarios of allowing AMD some significant market share look way better in comparison.

[RejZoR]

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

So when your argument falls in a heap you move to argue the price is too high.  Price is dictated by market demand,   The reason they are so bloody expensive is because people do want to buy them.  

 

So again, no,  you don't know anything about it really.  Your whole argument has just been an attempt to claim NVIDIA is somehow second rate, like their existence is having a negative effect on the market.  Your claims are nonsense.  Your understanding of technology and how it develops is insufficient to support your feelings on the matter.

 

 

I didn't "move" anything, jesus even the owner of this very site said the same frigging thing ffs. At time of release, RTX 2080 was 200-300€ more expensive while delivering same performance. RTX was meaningless back then and it's still meaningless now. 3 whole frigging games. Wooooow much exciting. Now that price is somewhat the same of course you buy RTX 2080, but when released it was a stupid investment unless you were shitting money.

[Dylanc1500]

16 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I didn't "move" anything, jesus even the owner of this very site said the same frigging thing ffs. At time of release, RTX 2080 was 200-300€ more expensive while delivering same performance. RTX was meaningless back then and it's still meaningless now. 3 whole frigging games. Wooooow much exciting. Now that price is somewhat the same of course you buy RTX 2080, but when released it was a stupid investment unless you were shitting money.

The only thing I will say on this subject is that perspective here is key. Right now from the pure perspective of a gaming consumer it may seem like waste, however, from the side of the developer it can help streamline development time or allow them to invest that time in other areas. There is also benefits for animation studios, whom have been quite enthusiastic about the abilities it has opened up for them. There is much more to NVidias implementation of hardware accelerated raytracing other than games.

 

You are free to your opinion but I just wanted to try help give another look on what they are trying to do with RTX other than just games. Simply food for thought!

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Desperate?

Yes, desperate because they don't have no high performance CPUs.

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Are you kidding me?

No, totally serious.

Ever heard about Tom Petersen? The Guy that made the NVAPI thingy?? Him?
You know where he's now? Hint: NOT nVidia.

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Nvidia are basically toying with AMD

Only in your wildest dreams.

If that was the case they would do it and not talk about it.

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

, and that's not going to change until AMD or Intel can come out with a game changing Geforce competitor,

1) its a GRAPHICS CHIP, not GEFORCE. THat is a Marketing Propaganda Name

2) what do you think might happen, if AMD happens to get a bit money and can actually invest in R&D and doesn't need to save every penny they have??

You seen the WAN Show from April 5th 2019??
You heard what Linus said about working at nVidia?? That Jensen might be very difficult to work with??

You know what that means for the people working there?
If a Competitor might come around with "Hey, wanna work for us? We have a nice working enviroment"...

 

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Nvidia can't risk becoming, or even being seen as a monopoly,

Then you should look at what is written at HardOCP about the Geforce Partner Programm.

Also a person that happen to get to work at Intel recently...

 

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

If Nvidia came out and buried Radeon, and I honestly believe they could

No they can't.

Because they tried.

And while their tries weren't totally unsucessful according to steam, they didn't fully succeed.

Ever heard about G-Sync?
 

You know, the Panic Attack with an FPGA to steal the show from the competition?? The one called "G-Sync", that is getting to rest dead in the Water??
Because TV start coming up with "Freesync" or rather the official Implementations.

2 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

The worst case scenarios of allowing AMD some significant market share look way better in comparison.

Worst Case scenario of "allowing" AMD some Market Share?!
 

You forget Intel. Right now Intel is struggling, that allows AMD to make more money. That gives them Money. With that Money they can invest in CPU and/or Graphics.

With that, they can increase their Graphics R&D Budget as well.

 

So then we have Intel pushing full steam ahead on the Graphics market and AMD can also come back again and be very competitive.

 

You really believe that a Company as toxic as nVidia, that has pissed off all their possible partners, can survive between Intel, who wants their partners to make money and AMD??
 

I really doubt it.

They might survive for a couple of years but not too long.

First they get kicked out of the HPC Market, where you can sell a simple card for a couple of thousand bucks. But without low latency connections to the CPU (CCIX, Infinity Fabric, GenZ and whatnot from Intel), nVidia has no chance of survival there.
Especially since there are two possible CPU choices:
Intel on one side.

AMD on the Other side.

 

AMD and Intel were both founded by ex-collegues from the same Parent Company: Fairchild...

 

[Stefan Payne]

46 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

There is also benefits for animation studios, whom have been quite enthusiastic about the abilities it has opened up for them.

...wich gets shot in the knee by the low amount of VRAM.

Only 8GiB VRAM is just not enough for such things.

 

But there is another, interesting Alternative for about the same money as a 2080...

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Where were they displayed as forum exaggeration?  That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about this.
 

and
Retailers having to cut Turing prices to move stock.[This might have been an exaggeration I just remember someone telling me and showing a link a month ago on the LTT discord.]

Also, I feel like I should add this.  But, even "if" Turing was a flop, or someone made some exaggeration, it really wouldn't bankrupt Nvidia.  Plus, wanting it to bankrupt Nvidia isn't a good thing as competition is needed.  And, I'm not holding my breath on Intel's GPU line either.  I'll change my mind when they show off it's actually able to compete.  But, I do hope it lives up to the hype because more competition is always a good thing. 

If you read the investor press releases from NVIDIA since the start of last year they clearly outline their market expectation, from the start of last year they were expecting minimal return from mining and from middle of last year they clearly told all investors they revised that to zero revenue from said markets.   Most of the claims about overstock from mining were in the last half of the year when the class action was taken (there was even a thread about it on these forums) and the mass discussion centered around overstock being a major issue.  It was claimed that the overstock was predominately a channel issue which they expected to have cleared out by the start of this year.  I don't know if that ever happened, but the next investor report from NVIDIA should tell us something.

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Oh yeah, why don't you start explaining it and prove that YOU understand that part of Technology?
 

But instead you just insult people and claim they don't understand something when they have a different oppionion on a certain thing or came to a different conclusion about a thing than you.

I'll start wasting time with you when you start making sense and stop outright lying about anything not AMD.

EDIT: also no one gets to hide behind "it's their opinion" when they are making absolute statements that are objectively wrong.

 

2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I didn't "move" anything, jesus even the owner of this very site said the same frigging thing ffs. At time of release, RTX 2080 was 200-300€ more expensive while delivering same performance. RTX was meaningless back then and it's still meaningless now. 3 whole frigging games. Wooooow much exciting. Now that price is somewhat the same of course you buy RTX 2080, but when released it was a stupid investment unless you were shitting money.

Really?  You started by making claims about the speed at which RTX was being used in games as an indicator of why it is a poor product to arguing that it cost too much as a reason it is a poor product.

 

Fact is both of those are wrong.

[Stefan Payne]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Fact is both of those are wrong.

Fact is nVidia is wrong and the claim "its easy to implement" was just bullshit.

If that was true, we would have seen more than 3 games.

 

Fact is that Jensen claimed that we would see a ton of games - 3 ain't a ton.

 

 

The really sad thing is that people still believe what nVidia says after the DX12 Claim for Fermi. Are the DX12 Drivers for Fermi released yet or still in development??

 

And what about the sawed off GT200 Card that Jensen called Fermi??

You know, this stunt:
https://bit-tech.net/news/tech/graphics/fermi-card-on-stage-wasn-t-real/1/

[mr moose]

Just now, Stefan Payne said:

Fact is nVidia is wrong and the claim "its easy to implement" was just bullshit.

If that was true, we would have seen more than 3 games.

 

Fact is that Jensen claimed that we would see a ton of games - 3 ain't a ton.

do you know what you are even trying to argue?

 

If you are going to quote me then address what I am saying in the context that I am saying it. Don't pretend I am responding to the OP when I clearly quoted another user as was directly addressing what they said.

 

 

 

 

[RejZoR]

20 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If you read the investor press releases from NVIDIA since the start of last year they clearly outline their market expectation, from the start of last year they were expecting minimal return from mining and from middle of last year they clearly told all investors they revised that to zero revenue from said markets.   Most of the claims about overstock from mining were in the last half of the year when the class action was taken (there was even a thread about it on these forums) and the mass discussion centered around overstock being a major issue.  It was claimed that the overstock was predominately a channel issue which they expected to have cleared out by the start of this year.  I don't know if that ever happened, but the next investor report from NVIDIA should tell us something.

 

I'll start wasting time with you when you start making sense and stop outright lying about anything not AMD.

Really?  You started by making claims about the speed at which RTX was being used in games as an indicator of why it is a poor product to arguing that it cost too much as a reason it is a poor product.

 

Fact is both of those are wrong.

What are you even on about wtf? Yeah, the rate at which RTX was and is being adopted mattered to an extent that having RTX meant literally nothing which is why same peforming 1080Ti for less was a better and more recommended option. And RTX is still pretty much irrelevant now. It's an ok addition that you know is there, but what matters is regular performance in non ray tracing stuff coz you can't really use RTX for anything useful even now, half a year later. Those 3 games are so meh I might dislocate my jaw...

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

What are you even on about wtf? Yeah, the rate at which RTX was and is being adopted mattered to an extent that having RTX meant literally nothing which is why same peforming 1080Ti for less was a better and more recommended option. And RTX is still pretty much irrelevant now. It's an ok addition that you know is there, but what matters is regular performance in non ray tracing stuff coz you can't really use RTX for anything useful even now, half a year later. Those 3 games are so meh I might dislocate my jaw...

 

On 4/6/2019 at 10:14 PM, RejZoR said:

What we're criticizing is the fact it's a commercial flop.

 

Quote

They promised all these games and what we got? 2 bloody games after months of waiting and 1 extra (Metro Exodus) half a year after RTX launch.

 

Quote

NVIDIA should really thought this through better and make a rock solid deal with developers to deliver at least 10 titles with full RTX support on day 1 of card release

 

 

Yeah, definitely not trying to use tech development times as a reason for calling it a failure. 

 

EDIT: and that's just one post, I really shouldn't have to pull up all the other comments to explain to you what is painfully obvious to everyone else.

[Blademaster91]

58 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

...wich gets shot in the knee by the low amount of VRAM.

Only 8GiB VRAM is just not enough for such things.

 

But there is another, interesting Alternative for about the same money as a 2080...

Do you have proof?

The tensor cores are a huge benefit for professional tasks, not just gaming which everyone likes to hate on. And the silly vram argument, its plenty for the intended market Nvidia aims at,as far as gaming pushing for ultra settings are pointless in most cases.

34 minutes ago, mr moose said:

do you know what you are even trying to argue?

 

If you are going to quote me then address what I am saying in the context that I am saying it. Don't pretend I am responding to the OP when I clearly quoted another user as was directly addressing what they said.

 

I don't get why some people have to hate on something as if its factually useless while taking quotes out of context, the aggressive arguments if someone tries to recommend another brand is why I usually avoid the cases &PSU's section.

[GoldenLag]

4 hours ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Desperate? Are you kidding me? Nvidia are basically toying with AMD,

AMD is not the biggest worry for Nvidia.

 

Intel is, Nvidia is facing an opponent with a lot deeper pockets than them. keep in mind that AMD has been relativly broke for the last 10 years

 

and a rule to depict Nvidia:

• People like products from Nvidia, they rarely like Nvidia themselves

[Stefan Payne]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The tensor cores are a huge benefit for professional tasks,

wich is completely irrelevant if your Problem requires more RAM than the card has.

In that case the Cart just crashes - and takes Windows with it.

 

See the Adobe Videos on Level1techs, that prove my point - in this case Adobe Premiere.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

 

I don't get why some people have to hate on something as if its factually useless, the aggressive arguments if someone tries to recommend another brand is why I usually avoid the cases &PSU's section.

I don't understand it either.  It's really not that hard to be impartial and give credit where it's due. 

[Stefan Payne]

...wich is why you defend Intel so much when people say that the TDP for their CPUs is misleading at worst and useless at best...

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 

 

 

 

Yeah, definitely not trying to use tech development times as a reason for calling it a failure. 

 

EDIT: and that's just one post, I really shouldn't have to pull up all the other comments to explain to you what is painfully obvious to everyone else.

I can't even... It's literally a combination of many factors. Yeah, RTX is a commercial flop. Yeah, RTX cards were stupid expensive on launch making old gen more viable pick at the time. What the F don't you understand!?

[mr moose]

18 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I can't even... It's literally a combination of many factors. Yeah, RTX is a commercial flop. Yeah, RTX cards were stupid expensive on launch making old gen more viable pick at the time. What the F don't you understand!?

It's really not the hard, if you want to call a product meaningless, a commercial flop and claim no one is going to buy it,  then expect people to tell you you are wrong when  it has meaning to other people and it is selling, therefore not a commercial flop (yet).  Those are facts you can't just ignore because you don't like them.

 

The sad part is that several people pointed out why you were wrong, gave you very well reasoned explanations and further went on to link you to better information.  Instead of just accepting it, you moved the goal posts failed at that and are now posting the above as if to claim I have missed something.

 

 

 

 

[RejZoR]

I'm wrong about fucking what? Jesus... Is RTX (a feature, not the card) a commercial flop? Yes, yes it is. No one is buying RTX cards because of RTX feature, people are buying it because GTX 1080Ti can't be bought anymore. Literally that and nothing else.

 

Was it terribly priced on launch and remained that way for several months? Yes, yes it did. It only recently dropped to what GTX 1080Ti was.

 

And yet I'm somehow wrong because you somewhere made a better explanation. Explanation of what? Nothingness? O_o

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I'm wrong about fucking what? Jesus... Is RTX (a feature, not the card) a commercial flop? Yes, yes it is. No one is buying RTX cards because of RTX feature, people are buying it because GTX 1080Ti can't be bought anymore. Literally that and nothing else.

 

Was it terribly priced on launch and remained that way for several months? Yes, yes it did. It only recently dropped to what GTX 1080Ti was.

 

And yet I'm somehow wrong because you somewhere made a better explanation. Explanation of what? Nothingness? O_o

I suggest you read the thread again.

[RejZoR]

It's not my problem if you don't understand what has been written. You do that coz it seems you don't understand things.

[Blademaster91]

36 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I'm wrong about fucking what? Jesus... Is RTX (a feature, not the card) a commercial flop? Yes, yes it is. No one is buying RTX cards because of RTX feature, people are buying it because GTX 1080Ti can't be bought anymore. Literally that and nothing else.

 

Was it terribly priced on launch and remained that way for several months? Yes, yes it did. It only recently dropped to what GTX 1080Ti was.

 

And yet I'm somehow wrong because you somewhere made a better explanation. Explanation of what? Nothingness? O_o

How is it a flop then? It was already explained that game developers don't make their games around the release of a new card to have tons of games ready. The pricing of the previous cards weren't any cheaper when the RTX cards launched, and not everyone wants to buy a used GPU.

[RejZoR]

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

How is it a flop then? It was already explained that game developers can't make their games around the release of a new card to have tons of games ready. The pricing of the previous cards weren't any cheaper when the RTX cards launched, and not everyone wants to buy a used GPU.

You could get brand new GTX 1080Ti for WAY less. We're talking 200-300€! I bought my AORUS GTX 1080Ti around two months after release and it was 799€ and it's one beefy ass card. So, basically bought on launch. RTX 2080 was around 999€ at same time. Do the math.

 

If people don't buy the card for the cool new feature, what does that make it? RTX as a feature is a commercial flop. They were hyping it so much and no one is buying RTX cards for the RTX itself. And those that have can barely use it. Also, you can't say "Ray tracing is easy to do and makes things so much easier" in the same breath as you say "it takes a lot of work and effort to do it". LMAO, which is it? Is it easy or not? XD Iknow how things work, I'm not an idiot, but it's funny how you all are defending NVIDIA and their RTX hype...

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

You could get brand new GTX 1080Ti for WAY less. We're talking 200-300€! I bought my AORUS GTX 1080Ti around two months after release and it was 799€ and it's one beefy ass card. So, basically bought on launch. RTX 2080 was around 999€ at same time. Do the math.

Those pricing conditions are all down to your choice though, there were MSRP cards and you could buy direct off Nvidia. The inflated priced cards were all higher end AIB cards and those actually don't make much of a difference. So you could have near equivalent priced options at launch if you were willing to pick those options and not a STRIX/FTW3 etc.

 

Edit:

Also in case you don't know or have forgotten I was one of the most critical here about the RTX price increases. 

[RejZoR]

Direct from NVIDIA... So, 22% VAT and import charges on top of MSRP with $=€ formula. That won't ever make it cheaper lol