The real reason why Apple removed the Jack. And why u still haven't figured it out yet.

[TheReal_ist]

Alrit u guys I'll explain it the best I can so here it goes. 

 

 

Why Apple removed the Headphone Jack?:

 

Apple removed the jack not for some tangible reason but more so as a philosophical reasoning. By that I mean of course that they removed it so that the mainstream idiots who are the main buyers and therefore the ones who control the market would switch away from it. We can't keep wired forever and wireless needed to happen. So BY REMOVING it they not only upended the 90% of users who buy phones but they also showed how amazing wireless can be with the Airpods. Which is now the #1 selling wireless headphones in the ENTIRE world fyi. 

 

They removed it for the greater good, by doing so they pushed the market of (wireless ANYTHING) Massively forward years. Something that doesn't happen if u half assed the change and kept the jack and still released airpods. If u did that then people would as THEY ALWAYS do revert back to their old ways. Thats why u need to force them to change, and that's EXACTLY what Apple did and DOES. 

 

If only we had a time machine or a portal gun to visit alternate realities. Because if we did I would be able to show u the worlds where Apple never existed, ones where they did and didn't do these changes to the market and so on. The point is u WOULD SEE with your own eyes that damn he was right if someone as well known as Apple (fill in with whatever alternate reality company is like apple in there clout) wouldn't have done what they did. The industry would not only be behind YEARS but likely a decade or more. All because no other company with the clout Apple has made such bold and brave decisions to say "Fuck the normal and known we want better shit whether u humans who hate change want it or not."

 

If only u could see these plain as day realities where this never happened. But we can't so this thorough explanation will have to do. So please if u have any concerns or issues with this please by all means comment below with a well versed argument as to why you are still right. 

 

When u take into account all the above. 

Much appreciated indeed,

Thanks

 

 

Some common tangible reasons u have all outlined are as follows:

 

• "They didn't save that much space." (not this one but some say this so I thought I'd explain it)
• "It was all for money. They changed it just to force u to buy what can now only be used with the different product."

 

First Point:

 

This is actually true technically speaking. But while this may have made waterproofing easier along with allowing for more space for other things in the device. This was merely a non accounted for plus when they removed it. Again they did this to move the industry past wired. Refer to above for more detail. 

 

Second Point:

 

If they weren't doing this as some state then what would we get from these new products?? We would get products with changes to them BUTT they would have added nothing new MEANING no one would buy them whether u are a sheep or not.

 

And yet for the past 20 yrs of releases every product that has removed something did it for a reason. Not because of money but because the old was shit and they wanted to add something NEW that wasn't shit. Therefore they removed it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ohh and while I'm here here's some explanations that none of u consider for common other points about Apple. If u wanna comment on them as well go ahead. Any discussion on this much MISINFORMED topic is great.

 

 

Why they don't have the adapter in the box:

 

Simply put this is a SMALL part of there MUCH bigger plan to move EVERYONE to wireless everything. 

 

Longer reason:

 

Apple is trying to move everyone using an iphone away from the jack right? Now if you had the option to continue using an adapter that is literally given to you "Making you think I need to use this from Apple". Ya you'd likely use it and therefore continue using jack style headphones. Rather then biting the bullet and going bluetooth already. 

So then rather then this being an example of being cheap its rather an example of Apple following there principle of pushing people to a jack less wireless future. You have to really take into context the ideals, values and principles Apple is going by when reviewing there products. Not just the surface level things that everyone always has an opinion on ie. price, y they don't put fast charging accessories in the retail box, etc. 

 

Why they don't give fast chargers in box: 

 

They don't because as studies have shown fast charging even at the conservative amount that we techies use it still damages the battery. Now imagine if the general public aka 90% of iPhone buyers were given the easy option of always using fast charging. Ya that would be a mess we would have METRIC TONS of iphones with useless degraded batteries, thats why Apple is saying "if you want fast charging then your not the basic consumer." (since you even know about such techs) SO THEY SAY "you can go and separately buy it from them if you really want it. And because of this the investors who see a chance to GOUGE u the enthusiast like crazy they will. Apple charges what they charge for a philosophical reason and so if u don't agree with that vision of they know better. Then by all means go ham with whatever u want. 

 

Apple will keep selling what they think is the right path with regards to fast charging to there loyal customers. And that philosophical reasons are as follows: 

 

1. That not only would we have METRIC tons of used iphone batteries damaging the planet with the toxic chemicals they leak out in landfills. But rather instead of just the enthusiasts using fast charging we NOW HAVE EVERYONE using it. Causing EVERY phones battery to be replaced even faster. So not good at ALL.

 

 

2. Second On top of all that Fast Charging is NOT A SOLUTION to our battery concerns. This method is not new its literally just playing around with the volts and amps to charge it faster. Simple as shit for an electrician fresh out of EVEN community college to do. This is a BAND AID solution to the ACTUAL issue which is that batteries are shit and need to fixed ASAP.

 

So instead of fixing this issue by investing in new battery techs with actual market leaders behind them giving them thereby validity to the market. They do this shit ass move and make u idiots (Ya idiots u are lead to believe fast charging is hard to do so u buy into it. therefore u are objectively idiots. Period) pay for privilege of using tech that is old is electricity itself is. Isn't that ironic, its coming full circle ain't it. 

 

 

So not only does apple not want the average idiot to have them, they also know this solution (of fast charging) isn't one its bullshit and should be told as such. Therefore they won't support it for the masses, if the idiot enthusiasts wanna buy it they will happily sell u one, that's the investors bit of Apple talking. (Also if u want fast charging look up Anker like come on don't buy enthusiast shit from apple, u guys should know this.)

 

 

Your thoughts would be much appreciated

[Dash Lambda]

It's pretty obvious they did it to force people to wireless. Though it was most certainly more about pushing their other products than some 'leading people to a better future' nonsense.

 

Wireless is better in many ways. Wired is better in many other ways. What irritates me about companies removing it is not the idea that they're compromising to save an unnecessary amount of space, it's the idea that they're removing functionality to force the user into a paradigm that may or may not be better for them. What makes me hate companies for doing it is that their principle motivation is following trends and squeezing money out of people.

 

What depresses me is that it seems the entire industry doesn't give a good god damn about the consumer, and is run by people who would ram the Titanic straight into that ice berg in broad daylight with every single kind of RADAR, LIDAR, ultrasonic, and gravity-based imaging technology we can even dream of today pointed straight at it, each with their own color-coded warning light and discordant siren that go off the moment it comes up the horizon, while someone loudly reads each report of the ice berg into their ear and points at it. Just look at notches. Nobody likes them. I have not heard a single person, not one, say anything more positive than "eh, it doesn't bother me that much." But they just keep punching holes in otherwise great displays and ruining them, every single flagship phone, because they're not trying to make a good tool. They're not trying to make a good product. They would happily sell white paper bags filled with seawater as phones if they could make more money that way.

 

Companies like Apple embody some of the most despicable and existentially terrifying failings of humanity in spectacular fashion.

 

... Uh... Damn. I guess I ranted a little bit. I don't... Uh... Usually do that...

[TheReal_ist]

1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

It's pretty obvious they did it to force people to wireless. Though it was most certainly more about pushing their other products than some 'leading people to a better future' nonsense.

 

Wireless is better in many ways. Wired is better in many other ways. What irritates me about companies removing it is not the idea that they're compromising to save an unnecessary amount of space, it's the idea that they're removing functionality to force the user into a paradigm that may or may not be better for them. What makes me hate companies for doing it is that their principle motivation is following trends and squeezing money out of people.

 

What depresses me is that it seems the entire industry doesn't give a good god damn about the consumer, and is run by people who would ram the Titanic straight into that ice berg in broad daylight with every single kind of RADAR, LIDAR, ultrasonic, and gravity-based imaging technology we can even dream of today pointed straight at it, each with their own color-coded warning light and discordant siren that go off the moment it comes up the horizon, while someone loudly reads each report of the ice berg into their ear and points at it. Just look at notches. Nobody likes them. I have not heard a single person, not one, say anything more positive than "eh, it doesn't bother me that much." But they just keep punching holes in otherwise great displays and ruining them, every single flagship phone, because they're not trying to make a good tool. They're not trying to make a good product. They would happily sell white paper bags filled with seawater as phones if they could make more money that way.

 

Companies like Apple embody some of the most despicable and existentially terrifying failings of humanity in spectacular fashion.

 

... Uh... Damn. I guess I ranted a little bit. I don't... Uh... Usually do that...

Great glad my overall point of them doing it to force the industry forward came across most people fuck that bit up even when discussing this. so sick  thats what I wanted.

 

Ok for the finer points. 

[TheReal_ist]

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Wireless is better in many ways. Wired is better in many other ways. What irritates me about companies removing it is not the idea that they're compromising to save an unnecessary amount of space, it's the idea that they're removing functionality to force the user into a paradigm that may or may not be better for them.

 

Thats the thing i'm getting at is that. This removal of something we once used regularly isn't just some blind forced thing by Apple or other companies. Its meant to to advance the industry. What did u think the idiots who wanted CD or floppy drives on EVERYTHING were right. No the companies were more specifically Apple was when they removed these both and we all complained and got over it. 

 

Which is just what happened with the jack everyone's over it besides enthusiasts. Aka the tech community, hence this discussion..

 

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

What makes me hate companies for doing it is that their principle motivation is following trends and squeezing money out of people.

Thats the error your having mate. They aren't following trends to just make more money. Apple has that cocky head on there shoulders all because they predicted VERY accurately in the past where the market should go. They did create the modern day smartphone market all on there own, so I'd say they have the clout to do it. If they didn't know one would follow what they do, and yet here we are today with them doing just that. Others follow because they know the stupid investors trust Apple to do the right thing, and so they follow them. 

 

Its not about money with them, they were always a premium brand thats what they are. They never changed that, so the whole price hike is simple inflation and increased costs due to RnD for new technologies. 

 

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

What depresses me is that it seems the entire industry doesn't give a good god damn about the consumer, and is run by people who would ram the Titanic straight into that ice berg in broad daylight with every single kind of RADAR, LIDAR, ultrasonic, and gravity-based imaging technology we can even dream of today pointed straight at it, each with their own color-coded warning light and discordant siren that go off the moment it comes up the horizon, while someone loudly reads each report of the ice berg into their ear and points at it.

Again were we blind when it came to removing the floppy drive or CD drive. NO we weren't the best way I can explain it is that u may think this now with all the initial emotions flying everywhere. But as time passes u just don't care. And then a tech comes along that makes u forget it entirely. 

 

We are never TRULY ready for anything. So all we can do is throw out the old and push our hardest to advance the new. That is what Apple and others have and continue to do with there phone market. 

 

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Just look at notches. Nobody likes them. I have not heard a single person, not one, say anything more positive than "eh, it doesn't bother me that much." But they just keep punching holes in otherwise great displays and ruining them, every single flagship phone, because they're not trying to make a good tool. They're not trying to make a good product. They would happily sell white paper bags filled with seawater as phones if they could make more money that way.

Refer to above point again. This is the process of moving on. U ditch the old design aka the iPhone 6 and u change it to a better one with a small compromise (the notch or S10 pimple). Then the new experimental techs u know the pop up cameras, hole punch camera pimples that sort of shit.

 

But eventually after going through these u get to the last step where we incorporate the sensors an camera underneath the display. THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER been possible if we never made the initial jump to a notch. So while u hate it now most don't care and thats the point. Its how we push the masses to move on. And its worked for the past 2 decades. 

 

So trust in it, we'll be fine lol.

6 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

Companies like Apple embody some of the most despicable and existentially terrifying failings of humanity in spectacular fashion.

 

... Uh... Damn. I guess I ranted a little bit. I don't... Uh... Usually do that...

I get it emotions they can be strong hence your rant. Thats cool your human mate. And u have some good points for instance yes APPLE does make massive mistakes they are run by humans after all. All we can do is criticize their mistakes so they are forced to change there broken ways. 

 

And we have done a pretty good job so far I'd say. Wouldn't u just look at the tech world we are in today. Its all due to our critique and companies like Apple who propose new or old ideas for us to use in their products.  

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

this what apple doing from day 1, nothing new.

just some how people are stupid enough to support its financial.

apple fans will never read reviews/ new

[TheReal_ist]

5 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

this what apple doing from day 1, nothing new.

just some how people are stupid enough to support its financial.

apple fans will never read reviews/ new

Ok great u have an opinion as do i. 

 

Would u mind explain as to why my points are wrong  one by one so I can understand u better. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Why Apple removed the Headphone Jack?:

Because its an old standard and Apple wanted to push people towards wireless. Good point at them doing it just before they released the AirPods, as well as moving more wireless lines on Beats, which they own. 

3 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Why they don't have the adapter in the box:

 

I got my jack-in-the-box. They also include default lighting headphones. Selling separately for like $10 at any Apple Store is just more money for them. 

3 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Why they don't give fast chargers in box: 

Because they can make more money by selling them separately

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

for so long apple has do things to piss us off, every yr , every phone. 

they only have one goal, need you to keep buying their stuff.

 

small & non removable battery giving very limited lifetime.

 

new charging cable every gen. can you imagine using different gen of iphones in family fighting for wall plugs? 

and adding those stupid chips in wires.

 

unsupported ios version so that even whatsapps cannot run properly, then a phone is really bricked and unusable

 

their tech is 3~5 years(roughly) behind samsung:

wireless charging/ NFC (2012 samsng s3)

and pretending they invented it...

 

and much more software bugs

 

[TheReal_ist]

Just now, floofer said:

Because its an old standard and Apple wanted to push people towards wireless. Good point at them doing it just before they released the AirPods, as well as moving more wireless lines on Beats, which they own. 

I got my jack-in-the-box. They also include default lighting headphones. Selling separately for like $10 at any Apple Store is just more money for them. 

Because they can make more money by selling them separately

Sick a real thoughtful response great to see more critical thinkers.

 

First Point:

I can see how it works out both ways for Apple honestly. While yes they do get more Adapter money purchases from each Jack dongle they don't give u. I honestly think this is just another step in there plan to move to wireless everything. First they induce the shock with their most popular device that the stupid masses flock to the most (Hence why they did it on the iphone FIRST over any other product. And ALSO why they want to shock them first since once u convince them its game over for the change they add). Then they give us an adapter to make the change a bit easy to swallow since this time its felt bigger then normal. 

 

But then as we are getting used to the dongle headphones we start to hate them and say "Hey those new wireless headphones look pretty cool (let it be airpods or those wired ones u could get from amazon for years here if u care). Then right as this is happening its been a year and the new X is launching and this time the Dongle is gone. We go into shock how dare they do this to us those greedy assholes u all say.

 

While this is all happening the anger fades and u realize wow wireless headphones are super convenient and u end up losing wired less and less until NEVER again or rarely ever. This is what they did and it has worked FLAWLessly we now have Hundreds of millions of users on the Wireless train. Ready to buy new wireless things so the market can finally grow into the dead carcass of the used to be giant Wired one. 

 

Second Point:

 

Fast chargers. Again this could be both them wanting more money or them wanting the average idiot consumer to not want fast chargers. Easy example ok what is a fast charger? its a charger that is Faster then the normal slow watt chargers we once used right?

 

Wrong. Its not its a band aid solution to the bigger issue at hand which is...................... Batteries. THey are dog shit and have been Since the dawn of tech really. This is my point apple is keeping them out of the average idiot so that they don't one become reliant on it as the solution to shit batteries. That way apple users will bitch at battery research firms to make better batteries because theres are terrible and slow.

 

But if they caved and used fast chargers consumers would accept the shit batteries and move on. They are in a sense insighting activism in a way to consumers so that they actually fight for better batteries and not just accept these bullshit fast charging methods. (FYI fast charging isn't new its literally just playing the amps, and volts to get it just right so the battery doesn't blow up. my point is its not new)

 

But the NEW BATTERIES we are seeing are. Thats what they are trying to push, since u know to have a wireless future u also need really good batteries. WHICH we do not have today. 

 

 

 

Obviously both of these can just be seen as a cash grab but if that were the case. No one would believe in Apple as a company. And yet they are still one of the most respected ones standing. I could be making all of this up who the fuck knows. But Idk I feel as though this is what they are really doing. I've seen them look out for the consumer like this so many times in the past, so until they show otherwise I will defend them.

 

They did give birth to the ENTIRE world we know today. All thanks to the first iPhone.

I praise based on facts and the past and that is what I am doing now. 

And I hope u can see that as a rational person would. 

 

thxs,

[Dash Lambda]

28 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

-snip-

Ditching floppy drives for optical media was good. Floppies are delicate, slow, have much harder capacity constraints, and degrade very easily. The only advantage to maintaining support for floppies is compatibility.

 

Moving on from optical media to flash media is a little more muddy. Each have their advantages, and while optical media isn't used as much as it was before it'll probably continue to be used even longer than flash. Removing optical players from portable devices made sense because they're bloody massive.

 

But you speak of moving onto wireless like it's a universal good. It's tradeoffs -It's not striding forward in a great march of progress, it's finding a solution that fits a certain set of needs better. The audio jack is an analogue standard that supports passive devices, wireless is almost always Bluetooth and needs actively powered devices. You ditch the cable in favor of inferior audio quality and the need to keep your headphones charged. You also add weight and cost to the headphones, and the electronics usually take up space that could otherwise be used for acoustics.

Oh, and a lot of companies are integrating the battery into the headphones. For such a small battery, that puts an even more definite lifespan on those than it does on phones.

 

And no, the notch was not a necessary step towards under-screen components. In fact, it was a step in the wrong direction, that is being corrected by doing what anyone with half a brain would have tried to do in the first place. The only thing the notch did was to establish that people are not okay with companies half-assing it.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying that wireless is bad. Wireless is great for what it's good at, and it's wonderful that we're getting more (and better) wireless options. It's just that trying to replace the headphone jack with wireless right now is just nonsensical, they have completely different goals.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheReal_ist said:

Sick a real thoughtful response great to see more critical thinkers.

0% thought I put in them, sorry, but I appreciate your response. 

1 minute ago, TheReal_ist said:

First Point:

Can see where you are going with this, but the original plan was for AirPower, which has taken a large number of setbacks. We'll never know the true reason, but definitely have had a massive difference with my AirPods - which I would have bought anyway probably. Its definitely more convenient than other bluetooth headsets, and super low profile. I don't like those dots - crappy microphones (or end up way too big like the Samsung ones), or super chunky ones. Airpods are very portable and their battery style, with the case lasts forever. 

1 minute ago, TheReal_ist said:

Second Point:

Wouldn't mind a new battery tbh. Whilst I have many fast chargers - you get them with iPads and have others floating about, I use a combination slow charger, just because it has two ports - I charge my stuff overnight so IDC. I would love a new super-long battery, my 7 gets only around a day, which is fine, but I wouldn't mind some comfort room. 

[TheReal_ist]

1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

Ditching floppy drives for optical media was good. Floppies are delicate, slow, have much harder capacity constraints, and degrade very easily. The only advantage to maintaining support for floppies is compatibility.

 

Moving on from optical media to flash media is a little more muddy. Each have their advantages, and while optical media isn't used as much as it was before it'll probably continue to be used even longer than flash. Removing optical players from portable devices made sense because they're bloody massive.

 

But you speak of moving onto wireless like it's a universal good. It's tradeoffs -It's not striding forward in a great march of progress, it's finding a solution that fits a certain set of needs better. The audio jack is an analogue standard that supports passive devices, wireless is almost always Bluetooth and needs actively powered devices. You ditch the cable in favor of inferior audio quality and the need to keep your headphones charged. You also add weight and cost to the headphones, and the electronics usually take up space that could otherwise be used for acoustics.

Oh, and a lot of companies are integrating the battery into the headphones. For such a small battery, that puts an even more definite lifespan on those than it does on phones.

 

And no, the notch was not a necessary step towards under-screen components. In fact, it was a step in the wrong direction, that is being corrected by doing what anyone with half a brain would have tried to do in the first place. The only thing the notch did was to establish that people are not okay with companies half-assing it.

 

To be clear, I'm not saying that wireless is bad. Wireless is great for what it's good at, and it's wonderful that we're getting more (and better) wireless options. It's just that trying to replace the headphone jack with wireless right now is just nonsensical, they have completely different goals.

Ok the best way I can explain this is that..........

hindsight is 20/20. 

 

You've heard that saying I'm guessing but if not then I'll add in what exactly I mean by it. So you mention how there are disadvantages and advantages right. Great thats the key bit here. For early tech there is always a trade off, there always will be honestly in some form or another. My point is that that sit is irrelavent all because we know it will be there. So if u get stuck on the little things here and there u will in the end say NOPE fuck it i'm staying in the past till it gets better. 

 

That is THE ISSUE u can't compare and contrast the new and the old I'm a fucking hard core techy believe me I fucking REALLY want to. But once u realize the greater  picture of how this shit fits together u realize that u can't do this anymore. I hate to say it but u honestly have to go in blind for the most part. Ya u will fuck up aka 3d tvs lol remember those. 

 

But thats the point this cluster fuck of new weird shit is how things get done. Because out of it all in the end something REVOLUTIONARY comes out. Just look at the first real phones they were ATROCIOUS and everyone was different and weird. THEN finally the iPhone came out and it showed everyone guys this is the direction we need to go.

 

This shit is really abstract Sorry if It doesn't come out right but I'm new to this too. Its hard to wrap your head around it all since u are in a sense wrapping it around the entire market. But hey this theory has worked out so far. If it hadn't then we would be ON A VERY DIFFERENT COURSE indeed. 

 

[FakeNSA]

Not trying to hate, but I think you are totally wrong. The removal of the headphone jack was a strictly business decision. First, they wanted to stop people from using wired headphones, you are correct. However, they removed the jack and did not bundle an adaptor in order to make money selling "apple certified" adaptors, and to drive people toward their heavily marketed, "cool" product, airpods. They did also remove the jack for ease of design: partially space, but also waterproofing. While other manufacturers, such as samsung, offer ip68 dust and water resistance with their s8-10 lineup, this was certainly an expensive thing to develop, and as such apple was money ahead not "wasting the time" engineering a solution to a problem they had deleted. 

Personally, I can't see myself buying a phone without the jack, purely because of the price-performance ratio of wired headphones/earbuds, and the sticker shock of wireless sets. (am a broke college student, sue me.) 

Overall, good question, and I do understand your perspective, but imo, apple should have released another se that still has the jack for "old" people like me. I do see the revolution of wireless audio that this move has caused, but I also see the cost. Have a great night!

[PlayStation 2]

I love how everyone tries to rationalize either their love or hatred for Apple (or even just opinions) with the excuse of "mainstream idiots".

[TheReal_ist]

8 minutes ago, floofer said:

0% thought I put in them, sorry, but I appreciate your response. 

Can see where you are going with this, but the original plan was for AirPower, which has taken a large number of setbacks. We'll never know the true reason, but definitely have had a massive difference with my AirPods - which I would have bought anyway probably. Its definitely more convenient than other bluetooth headsets, and super low profile. I don't like those dots - crappy microphones (or end up way too big like the Samsung ones), or super chunky ones. Airpods are very portable and their battery style, with the case lasts forever. 

Wouldn't mind a new battery tbh. Whilst I have many fast chargers - you get them with iPads and have others floating about, I use a combination slow charger, just because it has two ports - I charge my stuff overnight so IDC. I would love a new super-long battery, my 7 gets only around a day, which is fine, but I wouldn't mind some comfort room. 

 

Good point that is the thing I'm starting to notice. While yes Apple does have a plan or shit. It seems they are realizing these new technologies are taking longer then they wanted to. Because of this the transition to TRUE wireless shit isn't going as fast. Normally I would have expected this to happen within 4 yrs max.

 

But it seems Apple is caving a bit, hence the rumors of them putting Type C ports on all there products (the iOS ones fyi). Its there way of saying alrit we can't just stick with lighting until we remove the port all together we need to get with the other Market leaders."

 

I could be wrong but it seems as tho they are REALLY considering saying fuck it with "Wait till wireless power over the air" is ready. Which shows that even a Giant as Apple can make mistakes with there once perfect predictions. I mean its still right of course but not 100% as they pretended it would be. Lets hope they aren't stubborn and refuse to be proven wrong. But again IDK switching to Type C feels like a big step back. 

 

If we take that step then we will be stuck with that connector for how many more years as the engineers fiddly with there dicks doing nothing. Where as if we kept the market a fucking mess and then Apple came out with a glorious wireless tech that worked with everything. We would all switch to it and BAM WE DONE. But newsflash this reality bitch slapped Apple and showed them the world is WAY TO COMPLEX for such a simple plan like that to work. Since u know they planned for a REAL TRUE WIRELESS power solution and instead we got Airpower and on top of that they FUCKED that up and realized ohh shit this is basic bitch shit is hard too. 

 

 

Its honestly a weird time for the entire industry. We are in that state of wireless is good but not true wireless and to get there we would need to stop with the other bullshit and focus on True wireless fully. Idk I'm sorta losing my vision of how this will turn out. 

 

Kinda cool tho honestly, seeing a giant falter not knowing if they will fall flat on there ass or if they will rise up and fucking show us all up. Even if its not them someone will convenience  beats out everything for humans. So if someone else provides that over apple game over.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

[RejZoR]

A forced upgrade doesn't mean something is better, you just don't have an option. I certainly don't need 150€ wireless headphones for those 3 times a year I might need them. And I can't use the Lightning ones on my PC even though I'd prefer to. I'd even buy additional ones for it. But I won't be buying AirPods for laptop either coz I also don't need them that often either. It's again a status item, if you're seen with weird white sticks that have no wires, you're the "cool kid". I guess I ain't cool...

[Dash Lambda]

12 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

-snip-

I understand perfectly.

 

The problem is that I don't get a tool to dream about what the future will bring. I get a tool to use it. There's nothing complicated or high-philosophical about this, a phone is supposed to serve a purpose and that purpose is not to make people look forward to the days when wireless actually can replace wired.

 

And do understand, we're not close to wireless replacing wired. At all. We aren't even sure it ever will. Wired is inherently more reliable, faster, more efficient, and can carry power. That last one is huge for me, and we may well invent warp drive before we come up with a usable solution to it.

[TheReal_ist]

6 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

I love how everyone tries to rationalize either their love or hatred for Apple (or even just opinions) with the excuse of "mainstream idiots".

I'm confused at what your point is. Are u arguing that the mainstream crowd isn't a thing?

 

Then the rationalizing bit I don't love or hate Apple or any company. I respect companies for what they do, not for brand or clout. 

 

For instance Apple I respect there nobel ness to remove shit that people have gotten used to all in the name of the greater good. If they didn't LITERALLY no one else would have. Ya sure maybe the Moto Z phone could have been something, but unlikely at best anyone would follow them since they have no credibility with the market. That is how Apple does it and its how no one else could. 

 

For Samsung I respect there push to always try new things. They are the leader in there fields because of it, Apple and literally EVERY other phone brand sure as hell wouldn't have been able to develop OLED or EVEN good LCD screen without the amazing ground work and even further refinement they did to these screen technologies. 

 

 

I don't love or hate companies I respect what they do and if i do that then I buy there shit. Thats what every critical thinking consumer should do. But they don't hence the whole mainstream crowd. They are the majority of users sadly but o well we gotta deal with it. And thats what Apple does, they manipulate them (while not good yes, if we didn't the market would collapse. They don't know better for the most part, i hate to say it but they need to be coaxed in the right direction. And thats what companies do. Just what happens now a days. 

 

So please explain how the term Mainstream idiots is wrong. That is what they are its not meant to laugh at them that is just what they are with regards to how they act. Nothing more. 

[TheReal_ist]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

A forced upgrade doesn't mean something is better, you just don't have an option. I certainly don't need 150€ wireless headphones for those 3 times a year I might need them. And I can't use the Lightning ones on my PC even though I'd prefer to. I'd even buy additional ones for it. But I won't be buying AirPods for laptop either coz I also don't need them that often either. It's again a status item, if you're seen with weird white sticks that have no wires, you're the "cool kid". I guess I ain't cool...

Taking the term "Forced upgrade" out of context just to say 
"I personally don't apply to this" doesn't prove anything. 

 

Again the forced push isn't for u the enthusiasts, its for the rest of the market that will go along with it. Sorry but if it were up to us the enthusiasts we would have backwards compatibility for our devices for DECADES. 

 

I'm sorry but humans lest they be Mainstream idiots or techy enthusiasts just don't know the best path for themselves. I'm literally a techie I don't know how much more I can prove that I should BE AGAINST this. But I'm not it makes sense while its harsh yes, it still makes sense.

 

Sorry but humans just can't choose for themselves if we did we wouldn't be EVEN CLOSE to where we are today. 

 

 

A great example:

 

During the Cold War there was this SINGULAR Nuclear russian sub somewhere off the coast of Cuba. During the most tense part of the disputes warning shot was fired at the sub. The US sailors who did it had no idea the sub was even there. But yet the sub saw this as them getting attacked, so they did as they were told in this instance. They armed the nuclear warheads they had on board and were about to launch. 2 of the 3 men agreed this was the right thing to do, but the last man (who was funny enough the higher ranked officer lucky enough). Said "we need to wait". And while the others protested heavily arguing that there was all out nuclear going on above them. SO they HAD to defend themselves. (they didn't know anything since they were in a sub in enemy waters aka they had no coms so they had to make assumptions pretty much hence why the other two men thought this)

 

After saying this the 3rd man made them wait and so they did. In the end nothing more happened, there sub wasn't attacked or shot at again. As the other men thought was happening It was a false alarm, and he was right. And he also just avoided a nuclear war for humanity all on his own. 

 

Know why this happened? He told them in his report, hes said something along the lines of "I was trained just as the other two were to react quickly to such situations as they did. But in the end when I thought about what was going to happen whether it be true or not that we were being attacked. I couldn't see myself firing our NUCLEAR warheads based on a hunch that we were being attacked. So I chose differently and turns out I was right, if I hadn't done that the world would be a nuclear wasteland. So u could say I was happy years later that I didn't act so hasty then."

 

 

 

 

 

If the 3rd man said yes instead of lets wait. They Would have launched there war heads at the bases on Cuba. This would have been seen as an act of war and the US would fire there warheads  at Russia followed by Russia at the US. What I'm getting at is if that man didn't see the bigger picture he would have LITERALLY STARTED a nuclear war. I am not exaggerating we were that close to it, I can't remember where I saw this at but it was a verified situation that the crew later reported about. 

 

Pretty insane to know that honestly, but back to my point. This 3rd man saw the entire picture as I'm trying to make u see. Also I wanted to share that story as well, I fucking can't believe the fate of humanity was in a single stupid unpredictable humans hands. Just imagine if he never went into the military and instead we had another brain less chump that just followed orders. 

 

We would have literally had a nuclear war. Followed but a nuclear winter, followed by mass famine and a loss of most human lifes. We would have nearly went extinct even more so then, since we didn't have what we have now. Crazy shit to think about hence why i shared it, but also helps explain my reasoning. Which I hope u can see. 

[TheReal_ist]

21 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I understand perfectly.

 

The problem is that I don't get a tool to dream about what the future will bring. I get a tool to use it. There's nothing complicated or high-philosophical about this, a phone is supposed to serve a purpose and that purpose is not to make people look forward to the days when wireless actually can replace wired.

 

And do understand, we're not close to wireless replacing wired. At all. We aren't even sure it ever will. Wired is inherently more reliable, faster, more efficient, and can carry power. That last one is huge for me, and we may well invent warp drive before we come up with a usable solution to it.

All i wanted to do was to show u the reality of it. And u are right to have your opinion most humans do lol. 

 

So I will say the cliche "I agree to disagree" 

It was nice having a civil debate tho. Always nicer then the stupid fanboy baseless ones. lmao Cheers mate

[TheReal_ist]

38 minutes ago, Aelar_Nailo said:

Not trying to hate, but I think you are totally wrong. The removal of the headphone jack was a strictly business decision. First, they wanted to stop people from using wired headphones, you are correct. However, they removed the jack and did not bundle an adaptor in order to make money selling "apple certified" adaptors, and to drive people toward their heavily marketed, "cool" product, airpods. They did also remove the jack for ease of design: partially space, but also waterproofing. While other manufacturers, such as samsung, offer ip68 dust and water resistance with their s8-10 lineup, this was certainly an expensive thing to develop, and as such apple was money ahead not "wasting the time" engineering a solution to a problem they had deleted. 

 

Personally, I can't see myself buying a phone without the jack, purely because of the price-performance ratio of wired headphones/earbuds, and the sticker shock of wireless sets. (am a broke college student, sue me.) 

 

Overall, good question, and I do understand your perspective, but imo, apple should have released another se that still has the jack for "old" people like me. I do see the revolution of wireless audio that this move has caused, but I also see the cost. Have a great night!

And dude that is fine u are fine to have your opinion as am I. So now worries lol, I'm not one of those hate filled blind fucks. 

 

I get why you would think thats why, but Apple for as long as they have been a thing. HAVE ALWAYS based there decisions on a long term philosophical idea. So while its easy to bash them for making "Such an obvious cash grab move" its honestly not what they are trying to do. Alrit let me explain. If apple wanted to make the most money from there users as u suspect right? What would they do well they'd keep them just happy enough to stay with them but ALSO make decisions to cost them tons of money right?

 

Great your following. Ok so they do all that, but u forget thats not what Apple is doing thats not what any company is doing. Rather Apple along with others are the opposite, yes they are doing things that anger you such as removing the CD drive, Firewire, the 30pin, and now the jack. Those aren't meant to squeeze u dry of money, if it were apple would change it every year, and people would still buy it.

 

But they don't and neither do others, what they do is make a goal and they then see alrit how can we achieve this while also getting everyone to move over with out much hassle. So where as u might think they didn't follow through on this "do as little possible to hurt the consumer". Sorry but u may think that but if everyone thought that, then the entire Apple consumer base would revolt. 

 

Seeing any patterns yet?? What I'm getting at is this opinion of yours might as well be valid. But it doesn't matter really, Apple convinced the users that matter aka the mainstream idiots. The ones who make up nearly 90% of every market, those are the ones to keep happy. Sorry to say but your not one of those people neither am I or ANYONE on this forum. WE are a niche that is what I'm getting at mate. U may believe all those things and in your techy mind they might be valid concerns but to the rest of the market they are not. 

 

 

 

It sucks but thats how it is, u just gotta stop fighting it as u are doing now. Trying to convince me of your stated things, it doesn't work not only cause I have my set in stone opinions as do u. But the bigger thing is that your basically:

 

Trying to make a Giant move his house where as u are an ant. It just isn't possible man, u gotta know when to give in and today is that day. 

 

Curious to see your response. Most don't take this well fyi but hey who knows. Maybe u will take well to being told u are inherently flawed as a human. lul 

[kirashi]

4 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Apple removed the jack not to save room but more so as a philosophical reasoning. By that I mean of course that they removed it so that the mainstream idiots who are the main buyers and therefore the ones who control the market would switch away from it.

Sadly, you're right about this part - the consumers who make up most of the mainstream purchasing market inherently govern the entire market, which makes it damn near impossible for those of us who actually have specific requirements in a product to look elsewhere our of convenience sake.

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We can't keep wired forever and wireless needed to happen.

Um... yes, actually we can. And the best part is, we can have wireless at the same time - it's called BlueTooth, and it's been a part of most mobile phones since the early 2000's or earlier. One does not have to strip wired functionality from a device to implement wireless functionality.

Quote

So BY REMOVING it they not only upended the 90% of users who buy phones but they also showed how amazing wireless canbe with the Airpods. Which is now the #1 selling wireless headphones in the ENTIRE world fyi.

Best selling (by way of market share) does not by any respects mean best sounding, best for convenience, best for cross-compatibility, or any other form of best that would be objective. Granted, AirPods are pretty damn awesome subjectively if you live in an Apple household due to the seamless integration & handoff between devices, but objectively they're far from the best way to enjoy music, movies, or audio calls on a mobile device, because everyone's ear are shaped & tuned to hear differently.

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So no they didn't just do it to save a LITTLE more space that's stupid and ignorant to think that. They removed it for the greater good, by doing so they pushed the market of wireless ANYTHING Massively forward years. Something that doesn't happen if u half ass the change and keep the jack and still release airpods. If u did that then people would as THEY ALWAYS do revert back to there old ways. Thats why u need to force them to change, and that's EXACTLY what Apple did.

Partially correct; forcing change by removing a connectivity option is certainly one way to go about things. Apple made sure a lot of people will never buy another one of their headphone jack-less products, while at the same time introduced the idiotically confusing world of BlueTooth audio to mass market consumers. There's good and bad here, because you're right that many consumers won't upgrade until they're forced, but at the same time many consumers genuinely need legacy connectivity for a variety of reasons, as you'll read about in my reply to the next section.

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Hence Why I'm posing this discussion. Is there a reason why so many Tech Tubers continually hate on Companies who remove the port as Apple is doing? Because all I see is the bullshit rhetoric of them saying that removing it for space is pointless. No other points are made but that one so please someone explain why they STILL do this when Everyone but them has moved on?? 

While I cannot speak for tech YouTubers, I can indeed speak for my own personal needs: My car's BlueTooth does not always work, and only supports pairing one device at a time if I don't want to have to perform CPR on the factory radio (because it's a piece of shit), but it does support AUX in by way of 3.5mm jack. This is great because a 3.5mm jack allows me to fallback to a legacy standard that literally just works (unlike BlueTooth's inability to work as advertised) even when friends want to pop-on their tunes when we're on an adventure. Now, if phone companies offered to replace my car stereo with one that wasn't a potato, I wouldn't be complaining, but I have yet to find a phone company willing to do this, so until then, no phones without headphone jacks for me.

 

Another small but important reason for headphone jacks is that non-AirPod BlueTooth pairing (so literally any BlueTooth device other than AirPods) is anything but seamless. Let's say I want to seamlessly switch my Logitech UE9000 headphones from my iPad I was using on the back deck to my OnePlus 5T phone in my pocket because I'm going to listen to tunes while doing the dishes, then switch over to my Dell XPS 15 laptop for an evening work session. All of these devices are priced in the higher-end range, and all sport at least BT4.0 so I'm able to use aptX over A2DP, but that doesn't matter because unless I actually turn off BlueTooth on the prior device I was using my headphones with, I cannot make the headphones pair with another device. Mighty convenient - not, so many times I still plug in when listening around the house.

Quote

Apple is trying to move everyone using an iphone away from the jack right? Now if you had the option to continue using an adapter that is literally given to you "Making you think I need to use this from Apple". Ya you'd likely use it and therefore continue using jack style headphones. Rather then biting the bullet and going bluetooth already. 

At least if they included the adapter in the box, I'd be able to listen reliably in my car before deciding to return the product because it's absurd that we're to use dongles in 2019 rather than simply having products designed properly in the first place. An electronic device is simply a tool that enables me to make my life more convenient by saving me time and energy doing something manually - if I now have to remember to bring dongles with me everywhere I go just to plugin a headphone jack, or worse - an SD card - then that piece of technology is no longer saving me time or reducing the complexity of my life, and therefore serves no purpose compared to a device that offers the connectivity options I require for work, play, or otherwise.

Quote

So then rather then this being an example of being cheap its rather an example of Apple following there principle of pushing people to a jack less wireless future. You have to really take into context the ideals, values and principles Apple is going by when reviewing there products. 

But that's exactly what this is - an example of Apple following their [business] principles by pushing people to a jack-less wireless future [where Apple now owns a huge percentage of the wireless headphone market by way of Beats audio], creating an anti-competitive closed ecosystem of segregated products that don't work seamlessly with each other despite supposedly following the BlueTooth standard.

 

To be clear, it's not just Apple doing this - all manufacturers are following suit, and therefore are all in the same sinking ship for me. My point isn't that manufacturer's can't make devices with or without features - it's that consumers aren't being given a choice in the matter. Without the awareness of choice, consumers could soon wind up purchasing cars that need to be thrown away at 12,000kms because you cannot change the oil due to the hood being welded shut, all because a manufacturer said this was better and no consumers stopped to ask questions.

 

I'll close with 2 articles demonstrating prime examples of why USB-C audio is broken, and why BlueTooth is far too "broken" in its' current form. Until all of these issues are rectified across ALL PLATFORMS (laptops, automobiles, desktop PCs, tablets, smarthome devices, and speakers) I'll forever be tied to products that utilize the one connection standard that just works: the 3.5mm audio jack.

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/bring-back-the-headphone-jack-why-usb-c-audio-still-doesnt-work.html

 

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphone-jack-bluetooth-walled-garden

[Arika]

At this point i no longer care why they did it, they did and now other companies are following suit what what ever reasons they want to give.

 

also you keep saying this post is your "opinion", yet you titled it 

Quote

The real reason why Apple removed the Jack.

which is pretty arrogant

 

Quote

And why u still haven't figured it out yet.

and condescending 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

 

Good point that is the thing I'm starting to notice. While yes Apple does have a plan or shit. It seems they are realizing these new technologies are taking longer then they wanted to. Because of this the transition to TRUE wireless shit isn't going as fast. Normally I would have expected this to happen within 4 yrs max.

 

But it seems Apple is caving a bit, hence the rumors of them putting Type C ports on all there products (the iOS ones fyi). Its there way of saying alrit we can't just stick with lighting until we remove the port all together we need to get with the other Market leaders."

People do forget that Apple were the first mainstream adopters of USB-C. It's really just late game applying it to their phones, which is understandable since lightning is better by far. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

I could be wrong but it seems as tho they are REALLY considering saying fuck it with "Wait till wireless power over the air" is ready. Which shows that even a Giant as Apple can make mistakes with there once perfect predictions. I mean its still right of course but not 100% as they pretended it would be. Lets hope they aren't stubborn and refuse to be proven wrong. But again IDK switching to Type C feels like a big step back. 

AirPower is actually quite a big concept, creating a wireless charger capable of charging 3 devices at once (phone, AirPods, watch etc) is a big draw over wireless charging. Its not all set in water that they are putting type C in their phones, but seeing as they have Type-C ports only on their laptops, and Type-A to lightning for their phones - its pretty natural. Its a welcome change for sure. I do find it silly that I can't plug my phone into my laptop - with the chord it came with!!

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

If we take that step then we will be stuck with that connector for how many more years as the engineers fiddly with there dicks doing nothing. Where as if we kept the market a fucking mess and then Apple came out with a glorious wireless tech that worked with everything. We would all switch to it and BAM WE DONE. But newsflash this reality bitch slapped Apple and showed them the world is WAY TO COMPLEX for such a simple plan like that to work. Since u know they planned for a REAL TRUE WIRELESS power solution and instead we got Airpower and on top of that they FUCKED that up and realized ohh shit this is basic bitch shit is hard too. 

 

We haven't seen airpower just yet - don't jump to conclusions. AirPods and no HJ was a huge step, but other companies have taken note. Apple is still the marketing powerhouse to influence consumers as ever. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Its honestly a weird time for the entire industry. We are in that state of wireless is good but not true wireless and to get there we would need to stop with the other bullshit and focus on True wireless fully. Idk I'm sorta losing my vision of how this will turn out. 

True wireless, like power over wifi or something like that is truly tricky and most likely will never happen. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Kinda cool tho honestly, seeing a giant falter not knowing if they will fall flat on there ass or if they will rise up and fucking show us all up. Even if its not them someone will convenience  beats out everything for humans. So if someone else provides that over apple game over.

They aren't faltering. AirPods are way more convenient than using a headphone jack - just put in ears! Can't get more convenient than that. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Simple as that.

It never is unfortunately 

[TheReal_ist]

42 minutes ago, Arika S said:

At this point i no longer care why they did it, they did and now other companies are following suit what what ever reasons they want to give.

 

also you keep saying this post is your "opinion", yet you titled it 

which is pretty arrogant

 

and condescending 

Please stick to the topic.

 

thanks,

lul