AMD Navi 20 GPU Allegedly Supports Ray Tracing & Enhanced GCN Architecture - May Be Faster Than RTX 2080 Ti

[BiG StroOnZ]

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Looks like we have some new details coming in from the rumor mill. There have been many reports recently about AMD’s Navi GPU based Radeon RX graphics cards that could be launching in the second half of 2019 and while they are aimed at the more budget-tier audience, details of a second Navi GPU which is aimed at the enthusiast tier have been revealed by RedGamingTech. Now the details that are mentioned are broken into two parts, one is for the initial AMD Navi cards that utilize the Navi 10 GPU architecture and the second is for the high-end, enthusiast grade parts that would feature the Navi 20 GPU. According to RedGamingTech, the details were acquired from sources who have been very accurate in the past as per their claim.

 

The details say that before Raja Koduri, AMD’s ex-head of Radeon Technologies Group, left the company, one of his major tasks was to fix many of the weaknesses in the GCN architecture. The reason to do this was to let AMD RTG focus on both, producing a next-gen architecture while working on GCN iterations to remain competitive against NVIDIA GeForce and Quadro lineups.

 

So starting off with the Navi 20 details, we first have the alleged Ray Tracing support and to be honest, I think it’s very likely that AMD would introduce their own take on Ray Tracing. It is also said that the internal ray tracing performance estimates look really good and AMD Navi 20 GPUs may end up being competitive or even faster than the competing NVIDIA GeForce RTX cards (Navi 20 flagship vs GeForce RTX 2080 Ti). But we have to take into consideration that AMD’s Navi 20 GPUs will be launching a year after the Navi 10 mainstream parts. Other than that, we are hearing reports that AMD Navi GPUs may introduce features such as Variable Rate Shading which would be available across the Navi architecture. We have also seen various reports which indicate that Navi GPUs would be the underlying graphics architecture of next-generation consoles from Sony and Microsoft so looks like Navi, while being the last GCN based GPU architecture, might end up capturing multiple markets for AMD and be competitive at the same time.

 

Source: https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-20-radeon-rx-graphics-card-ray-tracing-gcn-architecture-rumor/

 

As always, this is a rumor, and is subject to criticism and skepticism. However, the source it does come from (not WCCFTech directly) has been correct in the past. Although, this puts the Vega 20 launch at sometime in 2020, probably over nine months away. Which gives much time for more credible, accurate and thorough leaks to come until then. But in the mean time, this rumor does give some hope for future competition in the video card space, as we see AMD currently doing in the CPU space.

[Fnige]

This contains more salt than possible, Though Ray tracing would be cool

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, SlimyPython said:

This contains more salt than possible, Though Ray tracing would be cool

This time it's different though, it's RTX On salt.

[Bcat00]

Why are the members on this forum so in love with exaggerating AMD products?

 

like come on, does history not show that crappy company can’t roll out a decent GPU for the past decade?

 

What changed? 

 

They invent a new manufacturing method?

 

Nope

 

They get a genius scientist on their team?

 

Nope

 

they get a giant influx of investment from a third party firm?

 

Nope

 

 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

They say faster, but in what context? With what tests?

[Fnige]

1 minute ago, Bcat00 said:

Why are the members on this forum so in love with exaggerating AMD products?

 

like come on, does history not show that crappy company can’t roll out a decent GPU for the past decade?

 

What changed? 

 

They invent a new manufacturing method?

 

Nope

 

They get a genius scientist on their team?

 

Nope

 

they get a giant influx of investment from a third party firm?

 

Nope

 

 

 

This is not us... It is Red Gaming Whatever clickbait he post and ShetTech.

 

BiG StroOnZ is posting this so called rumor for us to see. Not to exaggerate AMD's navi

[CarlBar]

1 minute ago, Bcat00 said:

Why are the members on this forum so in love with exaggerating AMD products?

 

like come on, does history not show that crappy company can’t roll out a decent GPU for the past decade?

 

What changed? 

 

They invent a new manufacturing method?

 

Nope

 

They get a genius scientist on their team?

 

Nope

 

they get a giant influx of investment from a third party firm?

 

Nope

 

 

 

 

Anyone who's done the dive on the architecture at even the most shallow level is fully aware that from a pure theoretical performance standpoint Vega is an amazingingly good card that gives the best NVIDIA has to offer a real run for it's money. The issue is that because it's focused on the datacenter as an architecture a great deal of that performance can;t be utilized because of in silicon bottlenecks.

 

The whole point of Navi is to rework the architecture to remove those bottlenecks. So a Navi 20 absolutely could be that fast. I'd be impressed if it is, but the power draw and thermals should be rock solid relative to the performance. Vega is only so hot and power hungry because it's got so much silicon sitting there powered on chewing power, generating heat, but doing little if any actual work.

[Bcat00]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

It don't matter what the inside story is or if that's even true. What matter is the final product that came out and its shit on the power consumption

[ouroesa]

AMD and their sales team, never cease to disappoint. I am sure this has to be taken with a mountain of salt.

[CarlBar]

5 minutes ago, Bcat00 said:

It don't matter what the inside story is or if that's even true. What matter is the final product that came out and its shit on the power consumption

 

As has been pointed out give Vega a workload the architecture is optimized for and it's power and thermals are quite alright relative to the performance. it all comes back to the fact that every vega card is a repurposed compute datacenter card in architecture terms.

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

If it was true, as I said, it's probably just a non-recycled Vega 20 card.

Either way the problem I have with something like this is there's nothing to base a comparison off of. The only software using DXR that we know AMD's architecture supports is CryEngine, using a tech demo that the public doesn't have access to (as far as I know). They also, as far as I know, have not run the same demo on NVIDIA's hardware so we can't even get someone like Digital Foundry to do a frame-by-frame scrutiny on it. So claiming that AMD's new hardware is faster than the RTX 2080 Ti should be taken with a galaxy of salt until they provide us with numbers from tests that actually we can find some basis in.

 

But I guess this is just the website's MO to generate ad revenue.

[CarlBar]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

I don't think Vega FE/64/56 were.  Didn't Raja create those as a new project?  I thought only the Radeon VII was a repurposed Instinct card.

 

I missed a piece off the end and edited it in while you were posting. They're not literally repurposed datacenter cards for 56/64/FE, but they use an identical architecture with all the limits that involves.

[CarlBar]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

To be honest, this card isn't even officially confirmed.  Some guy went to GDC and is speculating that exists because of some shady ass source.  XD  This just sounds like a BS card.

 

There is a section at the end where a new unknown AMD GPU shows up on a benchmarking site and he goes over the comparison while speculating it's a Navi 10 sample. He also talks about some leaked intel GPU stuff. But the benchmark he found is one i know nothing about and his presentation of the info is abysmal.

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

I don't think Vega FE/64/56 were.  Didn't Raja create those as a new project?  I thought only the Radeon VII was a repurposed Instinct card.

Not really.

Raja was too late to be really involved in that.

 

Anyway: Good to hear this, but the last I heard about Navi 20 was that it was at 2070 level and not much more.

Did they do a respin and also added some other things and not just fix the stuff that was broken??

I mean its entirely possible to can a Chip and replace it with another one - and still call it the same...

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Not really.

Raja was too late to be really involved in that.

 

Anyway: Good to hear this, but the last I heard about Navi 20 was that it was at 2070 level and not much more.

Did they do a respin and also added some other things and not just fix the stuff that was broken??

I mean its entirely possible to can a Chip and replace it with another one - and still call it the same...

you are thinking of navi 10, navi 20 is the one always rumored to come latter on, which was supposed to be high end

[CarlBar]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Sounds like Adored. "I have this source from AMD, but I can't confirm this.  Check back with me in a few months and I will prove it!"

 

Soubd slike every leak ever you mean. Thats the nature of leaks. The best you can do is get multiple leak sources on somthing. But there's no such thing as a confirmed leak, and some things, (like naming schemes and pricing), can and will change upto the last minute.

[BuckGup]

14 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Anyone who's done the dive on the architecture at even the most shallow level is fully aware that from a pure theoretical performance standpoint Vega is an amazingingly good card that gives the best NVIDIA has to offer a real run for it's money. The issue is that because it's focused on the datacenter as an architecture a great deal of that performance can;t be utilized because of in silicon bottlenecks.

 

The whole point of Navi is to rework the architecture to remove those bottlenecks. So a Navi 20 absolutely could be that fast. I'd be impressed if it is, but the power draw and thermals should be rock solid relative to the performance. Vega is only so hot and power hungry because it's got so much silicon sitting there powered on chewing power, generating heat, but doing little if any actual work.

Considering ray tracing, while not the same as what’s NVIDIA is doing, was shown off with software only, and also what power table modding does to VEGA. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 2080ti performance and ray tracing support by 2020

[Blademaster91]

24 minutes ago, Bcat00 said:

Why are the members on this forum so in love with exaggerating AMD products?

they get a giant influx of investment from a third party firm?

I guess the clickbait rumors are exciting, though to me its just more crap to take with a bunch of salt.

Well AMD did probably get some money from Google for their Stadia cloud gaming service.

19 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Vega was decent, and so was the 480/580.  The 480/580 kept up with the 1060 6GB card and sold well.  Vega was only targeting up to the 1080 which it did well, but Raja wasn't given enough of a budget to keep the power consumption down.  It was dropped with the Radeon VII which can compete with the 2080 and will do so more with driver maturity.  In pro work, it can beat the 2080 Ti.  You can dislike AMD if you want, though.

I agree Vega was decent, and the 480/580 was a good value, I don't dislike AMD but they need to get the power consumption down because not everyone wants a hot and loud card that you can't fit into a smaller build. The Radeon VII is great for pro work but in gaming it consumes more power than a 2080 and only keeps up with a 1080Ti.

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Sounds like Adored. "I have this source from AMD, but I can't confirm this.  Check back with me in a few months and I will prove it!"

when the leaker is doing something he should not, what do you expect 

[CarlBar]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

I agree Vega was decent, and the 480/580 are a good value, I don't dislike AMD but they need to get the power consumption down because not everyone wants a hot and loud card that you can't fit into a smaller build. The Radeon VII is great for pro work but in gaming it consumes more power than a 2080 and only keeps up with a 1080Ti.

 

As i mentioned above the issue is that a lot of the silicon, (i've heard more knowledgeable people claim as much as 40%), is powered on, (because it has to be for the stuff thats doing work to be on), and thus chugging down power and generating heat whilst doing no work.

 

R7 if optimized would probably be drawing 2/3 the power it does now based on that. And thats what Navi is. It's R7 with the architecture reworked for gaming optimized workloads.Meaning less underused silicon and thus less power and heat from that. But it's going to take a while to do that on a CPU scaled to R7 performance so they're relasing somthing a bit smaller and easier to work on first.

 

3 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

when the leaker is doing something he should not, what do you expect 

 

Amen, It's standard operating procedure for various types of source in every sector of the reporting industry.

 

5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Considering ray tracing, while not the same as what’s NVIDIA is doing, was shown off with software only, and also what power table modding does to VEGA. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 2080ti performance and ray tracing support by 2020

 

I didn't say that they couldn't. But better than 2080Ti sounds like a gol rather than something i'd feel confident putting money on. Navi 20 will certainly match the R7 IMO, and maybe beat it a little. But if it'll get upto 2080Ti or above is another matter.

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

you are thinking of navi 10, navi 20 is the one always rumored to come latter on, which was supposed to be high end

True, the one I was thinking about was the 10, the 20 was the higher end.

 

But you are making very good point:

Why are we talking about NAVI 20 now??

Its soposed to be later, much later...

 

What happened to Navi 10?? Was Navi 20 closer than we thought and they moved 20 forward??
Was Navi 10 scrapped because Navi 20 was so close??

Is Navi 10 still the one to be released this year and Navi 20 next year?

 

[Stefan Payne]

9 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

because not everyone wants a hot and loud card

My Nitro+ VEGA64 is neither particularly loud nor hot.

On the contrary, its quieter than the Power Color Red Devil (RX480) I had before and also stays cooler than that card as well.

[onlybuilt4cubanxlinx]

[cj09beira]

Just now, Stefan Payne said:

True, the one I was thinking about was the 10, the 20 was the higher end.

 

But you are making very good point:

Why are we talking about NAVI 20 now??

Its soposed to be later, much later...

 

What happened to Navi 10?? Was Navi 20 closer than we thought and they moved 20 forward??
Was Navi 10 scrapped because Navi 20 was so close??

Is Navi 10 still the one to be released this year and Navi 20 next year?

 

if adored is correct then its possible that navi 10 is coming latter than expected so navi 20 rumors started in the mean time as it gets closer to launch, more concrete leaks about the navi 10 should come soonish 

[Chett_Manly]

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But we have to take into consideration that AMD’s Navi 20 GPUs will be launching a year after the Navi 10 mainstream parts.

 

It's VEGA all over again. 980ti killer released against 1080ti, and now an RTX 2080ti killer released in 2020 against Nvidia 7nm Ampere. They are doing it again!