EU Vote in Favour of Article 13

[mr moose]

27 minutes ago, EldritchMoose said:

While I don't disagree about keeping the proposed law intentionally hidden, they are helped by the fact that the internet initially grabbed onto this as a "meme ban" rather than a potentially damaging piece of legislature that could break the way the internet functions. They are not, in my opinion, doing enough to inform people on why this law would be a good thing beyond "it gives us more leverage to protect copyright, you like copyright, right?"

 

Having read the first couple of iterations it appears most people don't understand how far it reaches, or this case doesn't really reach at all. It's not an internet destroying dictatorial law as many people make out.  

[EldritchMoose]

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Remember how GDPR was going be used to fine everyone and their dog?  Hasn't happened, only the large ones that feel like the rules shouldn't apply to them actually get fined after either repeated infractions or refusal to fix problems.

This is most likely going to end up the same way.  There will be some inconveniences, but it won't be anywhere near as bad as some people make it out to be.

GDPR already has a bit more of an effect than just fining large companies. It's not a big deal yet, but there are quite a lot of US news outlets that are currently unavailable in the EU because they refuse to update their privacy policies. As someone who likes to use multiple news sources to filter the bias out of news as much as I can, this bothers me, albeit not to a great degree at this time.

 

When it comes to copyright, though, you start getting into a legal minefield even before taking Article 17 into consideration. Everyone knows about Google's issues with Content ID and Copyright takedowns. They have been weaponised to silence critics, used for outright extortion and in some cases actual theft.

 

I hope you're right, and that this will serve as a wake-up call for companies like Google and Facebook, rather than creating a schism in the internet between EU traffic and non-EU traffic.

[SignedAdam]

On 4/1/2019 at 8:07 AM, EldritchMoose said:

GDPR already has a bit more of an effect than just fining large companies. It's not a big deal yet, but there are quite a lot of US news outlets that are currently unavailable in the EU because they refuse to update their privacy policies. As someone who likes to use multiple news sources to filter the bias out of news as much as I can, this bothers me, albeit not to a great degree at this time.

 

When it comes to copyright, though, you start getting into a legal minefield even before taking Article 17 into consideration. Everyone knows about Google's issues with Content ID and Copyright takedowns. They have been weaponised to silence critics, used for outright extortion and in some cases actual theft.

 

I hope you're right, and that this will serve as a wake-up call for companies like Google and Facebook, rather than creating a schism in the internet between EU traffic and non-EU traffic.

Quote

For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

As @Captain Chaos kindly pointed out we have no say on what law passes in the EU, so it doesn’t matter how many seats we have or how  much I want to arguing that we should have more seats than hitler, so what ever the Id decide to do next has nothing to do with us, despite what most of you think about the EU, it is a bad thing, as we the U.K. have meant to be leaving the EU for a few years now, I have very little Energy to argue your points, as you can imagine we are all arguing about it in real life not just on the internet!  

 

the EU has control of our borders, how many EU citizens and even non citizens enter our country, at times I think I’m on holiday in my own country cause that’s how bad it has got, (some people can’t talk English) I actually side with trump stopping people entering America, cause I see directly how it’s effecting us, our history is being destroyed from the inside out as more homes are demanded on our little Island, more hospitals,  transport, food, resources is needed for these people as a result councils / Government can’t afford museums to stay open, some have even been knocked down for homes or immigration demands of there places of Worship to be built (it’s worse in east of England) but you guys don’t see this and even some parts of the U.K. don’t see it, cause some places are effected more than others, anyway it’s not just immigration it’s lots of things, how we are also paying the EU for this immigration privilege, just the whole thing is stupid, anyway I think we all need to get back on topic, I’m saying no more on the issue because it’s a big topic and I believe none of us are qualified to talk about it, me included, there’s obviously a problem though Otherwise the U.K. wouldn’t have voted leave

 

my point, the longer we stay in the EU, the more our country (UK) is losing its identity, soon it won’t be fish and chips the U.K. stands for but curry and rice... 

[chiller15]

2 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

the EU as has controls our borders, how many EU citizens and even non citizens enter our country, at times I think I’m on holiday in my own country cause that’s how bad it has got, (some people can’t talk English) I actually side with trump stopping people entering  America, cause I see directly how it’s effecting is, our history is being  destroyed  From the inside out as more homes are demanded on our little Island, (London and going outwards) but you guys don’t see this and even some parts of the U.K. don’t see it, cause some places are effected more than others, anyway it’s not just  immigration it’s lots of things, how we are also paying the EU for this  immigration privilege, just the whole thing is stupid, anyway I think we all need to get back on topic, I’m saying no more on the issue

As someone who lives and works in one of the most multi-cultural areas in the UK (and especially the specific area of Birmingham I work in), I cannot agree with your points at all. The issues of immigration here in the UK have nothing to do with the EU, but issues with our own benefits system...which is entirely within our control. It is extremely easy for people from poorer countries to come to the UK, manage for a short time and then be eligible for benefits from the government. Why do they chose the UK over other EU countries? Because it's easier to apply and receive benefits here than anywhere else. Will leaving the EU fix this? No.

[SignedAdam]

14 minutes ago, chiller15 said:

As someone who lives and works in one of the most multi-cultural areas in the UK (and especially the specific area of Birmingham I work in), I cannot agree with your points at all. The issues of immigration here in the UK have nothing to do with the EU, but issues with our own benefits system...which is entirely within our control. It is extremely easy for people from poorer countries to come to the UK, manage for a short time and then be eligible for benefits from the government. Why do they chose the UK over other EU countries? Because it's easier to apply and receive benefits here than anywhere else. Will leaving the EU fix this? No.

Good point but let’s stop them coming over here in the 1st place, oh but we can’t cause we don’t have control of our borders (what’s not to understand about our government having no control) government should have Ultimate control over everything but it doesn’t 

 

Instead we have unelected EU deciding what happens, I would like to see a point system, like what Australia have in place

[chiller15]

10 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

Good point but let’s stop them coming over here in the 1st place, oh but we can’t cause we don’t have control of our borders (what’s not to understand about our government having no control) government should have Ultimate control over everything but it doesn’t 

I think you're also confusing immigration with migration. There is a difference.

 

From your stance on the subject, I would imagine that you don't really like the NHS then? Since a massive amount of our NHS is staffed by non-UK born people, what will happen if you kick them out or prevent them from coming in the first place? We don't have people with the skills because our education system is ***ed up (also the UK's fault, not the EU) and our own citizens are unwilling to do that sort of work, so people from other countries will do a better job. We have become complacent as a nation (I do include myself in that) and we have caused our own problems. It is not the EU's fault that we've screwed ourselves over.

[SignedAdam]

1 minute ago, chiller15 said:

I think you're also confusing immigration with migration. There is a difference.

 

From your stance on the subject, I would imagine that you don't really like the NHS then? Since a massive amount of our NHS is staffed by non-UK born people, what will happen if you kick them out or prevent them from coming in the first place? We don't have people with the skills because our education system is ***ed up (also the UK's fault, not the EU) and our own citizens are unwilling to do that sort of work, so people from other countries will do a better job. We have become complacent as a nation (I do include myself in that) and we have caused our own problems. It is not the EU's fault that we've screwed ourselves over.

Your wrong and we are both off topic, I really do think a moderator should step in and move this conversation else where, 

 

anyone coming from another country to this one (U.K.) should get reviewed before being allowed to enter this Country like Australia, based on how much they earn and there education, 

 

i believe the NHS is the best thing we have invented, if we left tomorrow I believe we will still have a working NHS, cause guess what, we have universities and college students who are unemployed, 

 

im saying no more on the matter, this really is my last reply, and getting old please stop spreading fear of the U.K. leaving because that’s what lost you the remain vote, (remoan) respect the out come of the vote, leave won, end of story.

[SignedAdam]

I’ll add as I’m still here... 

 

the EU use to be about trade, use to be the open market and that’s what my grandfather voted to join, not what it is today, it’s went from something dealing with goods, moving thing freely from one country to another, too, moving goods as well as laws, people, money, and a whole lot more, not what our grandfathers voted for... which is why we had a vote again and the out come was leave! Just in case that hasn’t sunk in yet 

[chiller15]

18 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

Your wrong and we are both off topic, I really do think a moderator should step in and move this conversation else where, 

 

anyone coming from another country to this one (U.K.) should get reviewed before being allowed to enter this Country like Australia, based on how much they earn and there education, 

 

i believe the NHS is the best thing we have invented, if we left tomorrow I believe we will still have a working NHS, cause guess what, we have universities and college students who are unemployed, 

 

im saying no more on the matter, this really is my last reply, and getting old please stop spreading fear of the U.K. leaving because that’s what lost you the remain vote, (remoan) respect the out come of the vote, leave won, end of story.

Yes we have unemployed students (which is again our fault, not the EU)...but what use is their Business Studies or Travel and Tourism BTEC or degree going to be for a nursing position? Sweet FA. This country has historically ran itself into the ground and I can tell you now (as I work in the education sector), this government have royally screwed up the education system. I cannot get across how utterly effed it is now. I'm not spreading fear of leaving. Sure the country will carry on once we leave, I just genuinely think we'll be worse off for it. The housing market has starting to slide, which puts homeowners like me in a more risky position.

 

11 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

I’ll add as I’m still here... 

 

the EU use to be about trade, use to be the open market and that’s what my grandfather voted to join, not what it is today, it’s went from something dealing with goods, moving thing freely from one country to another, too, moving goods as well as laws, people, money, and a whole lot more, not what our grandfathers voted for... which is why we had a vote again and the out come was leave! Just in case that hasn’t sunk in yet 

The UK isn't the same as it was back when Grandaddy voted. Even without the EU. Times change, it's time you changed with them.

[Master Delta Chief]

35 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

Your wrong and we are both off topic, I really do think a moderator should step in and move this conversation else where, 

 

anyone coming from another country to this one (U.K.) should get reviewed before being allowed to enter this Country like Australia, based on how much they earn and there education, 

Since we're now getting off-topic a little, let me add this in regarding being allowed in a country based on a certain checklist. The ones you have provided right here are plainly discriminatory as there will always be people that don't have any sort of education nor earn any money. 

1 hour ago, SignedAdam said:

my point, the longer we stay in the EU, the more our country (UK) is losing its identity, soon it won’t be fish and chips the U.K. stands for but curry and rice... 

...

Let me be clear. British identity won't be gone, but it will change and so did any other country around the world. The core identity will be the same, but the rest will be different. If you don't like change, just try to embrace it at least a little, but of course you don't have to.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Master Delta Chief
Adding another short phrase at the end

[SignedAdam]

20 minutes ago, chiller15 said:

Yes we have unemployed students (which is again our fault, not the EU)...but what use is their Business Studies or Travel and Tourism BTEC or degree going to be for a nursing position? Sweet FA. This country has historically ran itself into the ground and I can tell you now (as I work in the education sector), this government have royally screwed up the education system. I cannot get across how utterly effed it is now. I'm not spreading fear of leaving. Sure the country will carry on once we leave, I just genuinely think we'll be worse off for it. The housing market has starting to slide, which puts homeowners like me in a more risky position.

 

The UK isn't the same as it was back when Grandaddy voted. Even without the EU. Times change, it's time you changed with them.

 

20 minutes ago, chiller15 said:

Yes we have unemployed students (which is again our fault, not the EU)...but what use is their Business Studies or Travel and Tourism BTEC or degree going to be for a nursing position? Sweet FA. This country has historically ran itself into the ground and I can tell you now (as I work in the education sector), this government have royally screwed up the education system. I cannot get across how utterly effed it is now. I'm not spreading fear of leaving. Sure the country will carry on once we leave, I just genuinely think we'll be worse off for it. The housing market has starting to slide, which puts homeowners like me in a more risky position.

 

The UK isn't the same as it was back when Grandaddy voted. Even without the EU. Times change, it's time you changed with them.

We aren’t qualified to talk about this... thanks for disagreeing with my points I disagree with yours still! But I refuse to go round and round in circles! 

 

In response to the internet as a whole.

Just in case you are both part of Anonymous, some things I’ve said in this forum may have been said in anger and now can not be taken back, I do not hate  Germany I think plenty of good things come out of the country like thermal grizzly, just disagree with them being allowed more seats than the U.K... I also do not hate people out side of my country, I’m not a racist though I may have sounded like one. 

[EldritchMoose]

13 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Let me be clear. British identity won't be gone, but it will change and so did any other country around the world. The core identity will be the same, but the rest will be different. If you don't like change, just try to embrace it at least a little. 

Exactly! I hate this thinking that "the British identity" will somehow be lost by actually having to work together with the people whom "the British identity" is directly responsible for bringing to the UK. Hell, I'm not even British and I can tell you that fish and chips will never die in the north. 

[EldritchMoose]

1 hour ago, SignedAdam said:

As @Captain Chaos kindly pointed out we have no say on what law passes in the EU, so it doesn’t matter how many seats we have or how  much I want to arguing that we should have more seats than hitler, so what ever the Id decide to do next has nothing to do with us, despite what most of you think about the EU, it is a bad thing, as we the U.K. have meant to be leaving the EU for a few years now, I have very little Energy to argue your points, as you can imagine we are all arguing about it in real life not just on the internet!  

 

the EU has control of our borders, how many EU citizens and even non citizens enter our country, at times I think I’m on holiday in my own country cause that’s how bad it has got, (some people can’t talk English) I actually side with trump stopping people entering America, cause I see directly how it’s effecting us, our history is being destroyed from the inside out as more homes are demanded on our little Island, more hospitals,  transport, food, resources is needed for these people as a result councils / Government can’t afford museums to stay open, some have even been knocked down for homes or immigration demands of there places of Worship to be built (it’s worse in east of England) but you guys don’t see this and even some parts of the U.K. don’t see it, cause some places are effected more than others, anyway it’s not just immigration it’s lots of things, how we are also paying the EU for this immigration privilege, just the whole thing is stupid, anyway I think we all need to get back on topic, I’m saying no more on the issue because it’s a big topic and I believe none of us are qualified to talk about it, me included, there’s obviously a problem though Otherwise the U.K. wouldn’t have voted leave

 

my point, the longer we stay in the EU, the more our country (UK) is losing its identity, soon it won’t be fish and chips the U.K. stands for but curry and rice..

Dude, you were the one who brought up the amount of seats in the first place! And now that it turned out that you were wrong it suddenly doesn't matter anymore? As I pointed out before, modern day Germany is a far cry from Germany under Hitler. You're right in that it's off-topic, but again, you're the one who keeps bringing him into this.

 

Regarding the old chestnut of "people not speaking the language"...people who live in glass houses should not be throwing stones and your spelling and grammar show that you are (to put it in your own words) not qualified to be discussing people's ability to communicate using the English language.

 

You're not wrong that the UK has its share of problems. However, it is neither fair nor correct to place the blame for financial mismanagement on the shoulders of the EU when it has been the direct result of David Cameron's austerity politics. You guys voted the Tories into power and they are systematically defunding the arts, healthcare, Northern city councils...the list goes on.

1 hour ago, SignedAdam said:

Good point but let’s stop them coming over here in the 1st place, oh but we can’t cause we don’t have control of our borders (what’s not to understand about our government having no control) government should have Ultimate control over everything but it doesn’t 

 

Instead we have unelected EU deciding what happens, I would like to see a point system, like what Australia have in place

Face it, the current UK government couldn't control a game of Pong, much less the country it purports to govern. You (the UK public) voted for a party that has hitched its cart to an unpopular campaign promise for which they held off discussion until the reality set in that it would actually have consequences. You voted a party into power that is more invested in selling off public assets and fracking for oil no matter how many people get thrown out of their homes than actually discussing a viable exit strategy. They had two and a half years and all anybody has to show for the efforts of the UK government is posturing across party lines and a promise to shift the blame on the uncooperative EU.

 

I've said this before, but the EU is, in fact, an elected body. EU parliament elections will be held again next month, just like they wer held in 2014. You guys elected a bunch of UKIP prodicts of rectal haberdashery who promptly started abusing every financial loophole they could to show how important they felt that EU funds were used for their intended purpose.

49 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

Your wrong and we are both off topic, I really do think a moderator should step in and move this conversation else where, 

 

anyone coming from another country to this one (U.K.) should get reviewed before being allowed to enter this Country like Australia, based on how much they earn and there education, 

 

i believe the NHS is the best thing we have invented, if we left tomorrow I believe we will still have a working NHS, cause guess what, we have universities and college students who are unemployed, 

 

im saying no more on the matter, this really is my last reply, and getting old please stop spreading fear of the U.K. leaving because that’s what lost you the remain vote, (remoan) respect the out come of the vote, leave won, end of story.

Ah yes, the old "Leave won, so now suck it lol!" argument...Let's actually unpack this, shall we?

 

Yes, the referendum ended in a vote in favour of leaving the EU. Leave won by a margin of 1% in an election that had an attendance of 72%. Hardly conclusive proof that leaving was the de facto "will of the people" as the party line from the Tories has been over the past few years. Not to mention that the Leave campaign has violated campaign finance laws, immediately retracted its boldest claim and saw the resignation of Nigel Farage, citing that his work to secure the vote was done. I guess he didn't want to have to bother with the actual difficult part of ushering in the new era for the UK. Boris Johnson, once the chosen replacement for Cameron if Brexit were to become a thing, washed his hands of the whole thing and Theresa May has probably been regretting her decision to take Cameron's poison pill ever since.

 

None of these are the fault of the EU, all of them are a direct fault if political mismanagement from both the leave campaign and the politicians who were tasked with securing a good Brexit agreement after the referendum. A referendum which was non-binding, but has been treated as though it can never possibly be ignored.

 

Because "Leave" won. And now the real world comes calling and no one knows what will happen come the end of may.

 

You are free to believe that the NHS is the best thing the UK has invented. I am married to someone who was diagnosed with PTSD as a direct result of the mistreatment she experienced at the hands of the NHS, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Speaking of, you won't have a working NHS if you keep allowing Theresa May to defund it into oblivion, no matter how many unemployed students you throw at the problem.

13 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

 

We aren’t qualified to talk about this... thanks for disagreeing with my points I disagree with yours still! But I refuse to go round and round in circles! 

 

In response to the internet as a whole.

Just in case you are both part of Anonymous, some things I’ve said in this forum may have been said in anger and now can not be taken back, I do not hate  Germany I think plenty of good things come out of the country like thermal grizzly, just disagree with them being allowed more seats than the U.K... I also do not hate people out side of my country, I’m not a racist though I may have sounded like one. 

Oh I like this. It's amazing how much you show your replies to be a metaphor for Brexit as an idea. You derail a discussion by making bold accusations about the EU ("we're paying 350 million to the EU on a daily basis!"), refuse to address counterpoints, insisting that you are right without explaining why ("We voted leave, deal with it!") and now, when reality comes calling and there may be some actual consequences to your actions, you're suddenly trying to desperately make yourself out to not be the bad guy (The problem is that the EU won't co-operate with us to make a deal).

 

Also, if you're worried about not coming across like a racist on the internet: Don't say racist shit! That's a free tip from me to you, because even if Anonymous isn't hot on your heels it's probably a good thing to keep from admitting that you voted Leave in part because you think people who make curry and rice shouldn't be allowed to live in the UK if you're trying to make it sound like you're not a racist. At best, it does not add anything to your point and at worst it makes you sound like a racist. Something you are apparently worried about. Kinda like how worried the Leave campaign was about the money that "could go to the NHS" while cutting funding even more after the vote. 

[SignedAdam]

I voted Labour, lots of re-moaners in here... and I like curry and rice but would prefer to go to the country that it originated from, to try it, not have it thrown in my face everywhere here, we are not known for curry but fish and chips.. 

[chiller15]

41 minutes ago, SignedAdam said:

I voted Labour, lots of re-moaners in here... and I like curry and rice but would prefer to go to the country that it originated from, to try it, not have it thrown in my face everywhere here, we are not known for curry but fish and chips.. 

The Balti, arguably one of the most famous curry dishes, is credited at being invented in Birmingham. So that's one exotic holiday you have planned in Buuuur-min-gum.

 

P.s, I voted labour and always will. I grew up in an ex-mining town in Merseyside, so you can guess my views on the conservatives.

[mr moose]

This thread reminded me of this:

 

 

[CarlBar]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:53 PM, VegetableStu said:

WOOOOAAAAAA O_O

 

It's a holdover from the gunpowder plot when they tried to blow up parliament.

 

On 3/31/2019 at 1:53 PM, VegetableStu said:

... don't you guys (well those reading in the UK anyway) have like the Queen going around in the carriage every year or something...? o_o

 

Every law on that list is basically an example of a law that exists, but in practise enforcement is unlikely in the extreme. 

[GoldenLag]

18 hours ago, SignedAdam said:

fish and chips.. 

But chips is of Belgian origin iirc........

 

And fried fish is of Iberian origin......