Jump to content

EU Vote in Favour of Article 13

chiller15

well if any good can come of this is now people are awake to fight back and laws can be changed and the people who voted this in can be voted out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

case in point of this:

 

Because they left out this:

in there desire to not have to think about this:

 

 

This does no make much sense at all. Those who cannot behave were always thrown out by platforms so idk what social BS are you talking about. As for control it is better if it is uncontrolled. As for why look at China.... Right now the only ones pushing for this are the parasites who afraid that they cannot keep their outdated business going. It wont help the common user one bit. Or any other legislation i seen so far for that matter.

 

/EDIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdlHM-ytD6A&t=0s

And this is why i say it is best to forget about the idea of "controlling the internet". It cannot end well.

Edited by jagdtigger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

This does no make much sense at all. Those who cannot behave were always thrown out by platforms so idk what social BS are you talking about. As for control it is better if it is uncontrolled. As for why look at China.... Right now the only ones pushing for this are the parasites who afraid that they cannot keep their outdated business going. It wont help the common user one bit. Or any other legislation i seen so far for that matter.

I see it only as getting legistation up to date. After all CR infringement is a crime and easiest way to fight it is to go for the big fishes, orginal uplaoders and platforms. Platforms are currently quite immune because DMCA and other legistations are quite a lot toothless against them because "content isn't platforms but users", "content isn't saved on the platform" and so on. With this there's going to be a legistation that says "if you are not maintaining the level of CR infringening material on your platform and handle takedown notices, it's your fault and you get punished". And it has nothing to do with business models, CR infringement is still a crime, no matter how it is turned to be white knights bringing content available for free so the demonic and greedy corporations with ancient business models wouldn't make money. It will make things harder for common user because they can no longer just google "free full movie" and watch the movie for free from a platform that uses DMCA takedowns as toiletpaper and manage things so that they don't get gaught and even if gaught they can get away with it, but again it isn't ment to help the common user a bit, it's ment to enforce a law that is far too easy to circumvent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

I see it only as getting legistation up to date. After all CR infringement is a crime and easiest way to fight it is to go for the big fishes, orginal uplaoders and platforms. Platforms are currently quite immune because DMCA and other legistations are quite a lot toothless against them because "content isn't platforms but users", "content isn't saved on the platform" and so on. With this there's going to be a legistation that says "if you are not maintaining the level of CR infringening material on your platform and handle takedown notices, it's your fault and you get punished". And it has nothing to do with business models, CR infringement is still a crime, no matter how it is turned to be white knights bringing content available for free so the demonic and greedy corporations with ancient business models wouldn't make money. It will make things harder for common user because they can no longer just google "free full movie" and watch the movie for free from a platform that uses DMCA takedowns as toiletpaper and manage things so that they don't get gaught and even if gaught they can get away with it, but again it isn't ment to help the common user a bit, it's ment to enforce a law that is far too easy to circumvent.

Problem is this "update" is worded very loosely and way too open for abuse.... (even worse than DMCA...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, EldritchMoose said:

Why wouldn't it?

It definitely doesn't in Germany

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Why?

Germany bans all Nazi symbols. While a horrifically deplorable people and group, you can't have "free speech but..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Eaglerino said:

Germany bans all Nazi symbols. While a horrifically deplorable people and group, you can't have "free speech but..."

That is why its banned, and not only in Germany but here in Hungary as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is this "update" is worded very loosely and way too open for abuse.... (even worse than DMCA...)

It's loosely worded because it's not a law, it's a directive (directions) for member countries to make laws. Quite often EU directives are loosely worded to allow governments make laws fitting their countries. Like:

Quote

Member States shall ensure that online content sharing service providers and rightholders cooperate with each other in a diligent manner to ensure the effective functioning of the measures referred to in point (a) of paragraph 4 over time.

is very loosely worded because it's up to member countries to figure out how they are going to ensure that there is dialog between service providers and CR holders. Probably quite many EU countries will just make some law that allows some official to answer and lead negotiations between service providers and CR holders if problems arise while others may even adapt some councils and stuff that include service providers, CR holder, politicans and experts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

This does no make much sense at all. Those who cannot behave were always thrown out by platforms so idk what social BS are you talking about. As for control it is better if it is uncontrolled. As for why look at China.... Right now the only ones pushing for this are the parasites who afraid that they cannot keep their outdated business going. It wont help the common user one bit. Or any other legislation i seen so far for that matter.

 

/EDIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdlHM-ytD6A&t=0s

And this is why i say it is best to forget about the idea of "controlling the internet". It cannot end well.

Well if you genuinely don't think the internet needs to be managed or controlled in anyway then I am sure you'd be happy for large companies to be allowed to do whatever they please with it?  Maybe the malware and ransomware people don't need to remain anonymous anymore, because, you know, the internet has no rules or regulations applied.

 

 Of course it has to be, managed it is a major part of humanity, it is a major part of infrastructure that is intrinsically linked to the economy, you can't just pretend none of that is important because you have feelings.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Thaldor said:

It's loosely worded because it's not a law, it's a directive (directions) for member countries to make laws. Quite often EU directives are loosely worded to allow governments make laws fitting their countries. Like:

is very loosely worded because it's up to member countries to figure out how they are going to ensure that there is dialog between service providers and CR holders. Probably quite many EU countries will just make some law that allows some official to answer and lead negotiations between service providers and CR holders if problems arise while others may even adapt some councils and stuff that include service providers, CR holder, politicans and experts.

 

The problem here is that many (almost all) people who aren't lawyers or invested in the legal side of things, don't understand how the law (or the justice system) works.  We are debating things from a position of understanding as well as concern, where as most people here are just concerned.  

 

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is this "update" is worded very loosely and way too open for abuse.... (even worse than DMCA...)

 

It is loosely worded not only for the reasons outlined by Thaldor, but because most justice systems need room to be appropriate with their response to someone breaking CR law.  I think you will agree there is a huge difference between a 12 year downloading a movie because the website said it was legitimate and free and a group of organised people running a website designed to disseminate pirate material.   If the such directives were not written in the manner they are (and most copy write law is written in the same way) then the judge would have no option but to sentence the 12 year old as if they were as guilty as the organised pirates.   Everyone knows that is not fair.  

 

I think the problem here is you don't understand the much wider picture.   The internet and what is lawful and ethical is huge and you seem to be arguing for a wild west as if there are no consequences to any of it.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

The problem here is that many (almost all) people who aren't lawyers or invested in the legal side of things, don't understand how the law (or the justice system) works.  We are debating things from a position of understanding as well as concern, where as most people here are just concerned. 

Yeah and it doesn't help a bit when Americans try to argue over this and they think EU government and juridical systems work the same as in the US. Like even MattPatt (who does a great deal of background work) was missing shots with his Article 13 video (most notably he thought that because EU doesn't have specific Fair use laws -> There's no Fair Use laws in EU, which is as wrong as anything can be, because IIRC even the EU legistative has the same rights of use written in the copyright law as the Fair Use laws in US). I haven't even watched Jayz video or much of anyones who I don't know would do extensive background checks and really deep dive into the information available (really waiting for Kurzgesagt to make a video about this, but they probably are at least few months away knowing that they take really long time to research the topic and factcheck the script with experts of the field) just because most of them fall to very basic mistakes, like that the article 13 would make every platform responsible for their content, I don't even want to know how many blank shots someone like Jay has in his gun for this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Yeah and it doesn't help a bit when Americans try to argue over this and they think EU government and juridical systems work the same as in the US. Like even MattPatt (who does a great deal of background work) was missing shots with his Article 13 video (most notably he thought that because EU doesn't have specific Fair use laws -> There's no Fair Use laws in EU, which is as wrong as anything can be, because IIRC even the EU legistative has the same rights of use written in the copyright law as the Fair Use laws in US). I haven't even watched Jayz video or much of anyones who I don't know would do extensive background checks and really deep dive into the information available (really waiting for Kurzgesagt to make a video about this, but they probably are at least few months away knowing that they take really long time to research the topic and factcheck the script with experts of the field) just because most of them fall to very basic mistakes, like that the article 13 would make every platform responsible for their content, I don't even want to know how many blank shots someone like Jay has in his gun for this...

It really annoys me when people don't realise you can't make an educated video on something this complex in a few weeks.   It annoys me as much as jury's who find a defendant guilty in a few days over something as complex as IP law or the chemical effects on biological matter.    We may as well consult a crystal ball.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't it also spesifically say that content providers have to try to not make their system take down legitimate uses anyway? 

 

To those people that is afraid it will make them take down so much legitimate stuff.

“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, EldritchMoose said:

Why wouldn't it?

You know the EU parliament is an elected body, right?

IIRC the parliament only makes recommendations, not actually enacting law.

 

And aren't they elected by the governments of the constituent countries, not the people of those countries?

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

IIRC the parliament only makes recommendations, not actually enacting law.

 

And aren't they elected by the governments of the constituent countries, not the people of those countries?

Parliament makes directives which are more like frameworks from which member states must make laws.

 

And nope, MEPs are directly elected by the people. Elections methods differenciate between member states but there are guidelines: a) the voting system must be a form of proportional representation, under either the party list or the single transferable vote system b) the electoral area may be subdivided if this will not generally affect the proportional nature of the electoral system and c) the possible election treshold cannot be over 5%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Parliament makes directives which are more like frameworks from which member states must make laws.

 

And nope, MEPs are directly elected by the people. Elections methods differenciate between member states but there are guidelines: a) the voting system must be a form of proportional representation, under either the party list or the single transferable vote system b) the electoral area may be subdivided if this will not generally affect the proportional nature of the electoral system and c) the possible election treshold cannot be over 5%.

Fair enough, but this legislation still got passed, despite overwhelming opposition from the people themselves.

 

I have similar problems with the federal system here in the US. I'm beginning to realize that governments made up of more governments are just generally a bad idea. Really governments shouldn't go beyond the local size. The smaller the government is, the easier it is to keep them under control.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

 despite overwhelming opposition from the people themselves.

 

Like most opposition, it is likely just a very loud minority.   As online enthusiasts we are positioned to hear more about it than the average facebook junky.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Like most opposition, it is likely just a very loud minority.   As online enthusiasts we are positioned to hear more about it than the average facebook junky.

IIRC the likes of Facebook, Google, Apple, etc. all had objections.

 

I'd call that more than a vocal minority.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

IIRC the likes of Facebook, Google, Apple, etc. all had objections.

 

I'd call that more than a vocal minority.

That's three objections.  Majority of their users don't even know it's a thing.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, mr moose said:

That's three objections.  Majority of their users don't even know it's a thing.

I find it hard to believe no one has heard of it, considering the media coverage of it. I've seen it on Drudge and even Google News.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

IIRC the likes of Facebook, Google, Apple, etc. all had objections.

 

I'd call that more than a vocal minority.

In fact I'd be willing to bet that majority of the population doesn't know what it is beyond some letter that some company wrote about or an article headline that they didn't read.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

I find it hard to believe no one has heard of it, considering the media coverage of it. I've seen it on Drudge and even Google News.

 

Go down the street and ask as many people as you like, I guarantee most won't even know what you are talking about.  you only know because it's an interest to you and gets talked about in the these circles.    

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Who do I have to pay in order to use a swastika? This needs plenty2 of swastikas. 

Cor Caeruleus Reborn v6

Spoiler

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K

CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver - 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste 
Motherboard: ASRock Z370 Extreme4
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ RGB 2x8GB 3200/14
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive 
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive
Storage: Western Digital - BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: EVGA - 970 SSC ACX (1080 is in RMA)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA P2 750W with CableMod blue/black Pro Series
Optical Drive: LG - WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit and Linux Mint Serena
Keyboard: Logitech - G910 Orion Spectrum RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard
Mouse: Logitech - G502 Wired Optical Mouse
Headphones: Logitech - G430 7.1 Channel  Headset
Speakers: Logitech - Z506 155W 5.1ch Speakers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Who do I have to pay in order to use a swastika? This needs plenty2 of swastikas. 

These guys might be able to direct you to the best place to pay for it?

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×