Laptop I5-4200M CPU Upgrade

[Mister_G]

Can it be profitable? I was thinking on upgrading to a more recent haswell I5 with the same tdp or maybe to a I7, but i'm not sure if the cooling would suffice...

Also, I plan on doing upgrades like ssd, battery and maybe ram because it is possible and also because I want to build a pc and not spend it on a new laptop.

 

 

[rcmaehl]

Assuming your chip is Socket G3 PGA and not a BGA, then cooling performance can always be improved. Liquid metal will significantly help temp stay low, and when under heavy load a cooling pad can be used.

[Mister_G]

2 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

Assuming your chip is Socket G3 PGA and not a BGA, then cooling performance can always be improved. Liquid metal will significantly help temp stay low, and when under heavy load a cooling pad can be used.

CPU-Z says it's a 947 rPGA.. what ever it means

 

edit: also, I am a little frightened by the idea of using liquid metal. but i plan on using a high quality paste

[schwellmo92]

Laptop CPU's aren't upgrade-able. 

[Mister_G]

1 minute ago, schwellmo92 said:

Laptop CPU's aren't upgrade-able. 

this one isn't soldered so I am willing to give a try

[Wufflez]

1 minute ago, schwellmo92 said:

Laptop CPU's aren't upgrade-able. 

What makes you think that? I've upgraded my CPU on my laptops a couple of times

[LukeSavenije]

6 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Laptop CPU's aren't upgrade-able. 

there actually are socketed laptops

 

so you're wrong. i thought the same too for a while

[Wufflez]

18 minutes ago, Hallinger_G said:

Can it be profitable? I was thinking on upgrading to a more recent haswell I5 with the same tdp or maybe to a I7, but i'm not sure if the cooling would suffice...

Also, I plan on doing upgrades like ssd, battery and maybe ram because it is possible and also because I want to build a pc and not spend it on a new laptop.

 

 

If an i7 has the same tdp, it will not generate more or less heat. What model laptop do you have, and your current cpu?

[Mister_G]

1 minute ago, Wufflez said:

If an i7 has the same tdp, it will not generate more or less heat. What model laptop do you have, and your current cpu?

asus aspire e1-772g with a I5-4200M. It's in the title and tags

[Wufflez]

6 minutes ago, Hallinger_G said:

asus aspire e1-772g with a I5-4200M. It's in the title and tags

Who reads tags? Put a i7-4702MQ in it. They seem to go for $70-100 used/refurbished.

[Mister_G]

38 minutes ago, Wufflez said:

Who reads tags? Put a i7-4702MQ in it. They seem to go for $70-100 used/refurbished.

well, this cooler currently throttles the current cpu under heavy load. maybe a new thermal paste will fix it, but if it doesn't?

 

[rcmaehl]

50 minutes ago, Hallinger_G said:

well, this cooler currently throttles the current cpu under heavy load. maybe a new thermal paste will fix it, but if it doesn't?

 

Liquid metal
 

 

[Mister_G]

1 hour ago, rcmaehl said:

Liquid metal
 

 

I have seen the vid (I see all of them :P) but tbh I am kind of scared to use liquid metal

[Firewrath9]

3 hours ago, Wufflez said:

If an i7 has the same tdp, it will not generate more or less heat. What model laptop do you have, and your current cpu?

it will generate more. a 9900k has "95W" tdp, and a 8350k has "95W" tdp. the 9900k will have vastly higher temps.

more freq = more heat.

[Mister_G]

3 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

a 9900k has "95W" tdp, and a 8350k has "95W" tdp

but those are different architectures... I understand your point of view but I don't think that is a good "apples to apples" comparison

[Mister_G]

Just now, Hallinger_G said:

but those are different architectures... I understand your point of view but I don't think that is a good "apples to apples" comparison

wait, what a fool I forgot that the 9900k is just a buffed up version of the 8000 series :V

[Firewrath9]

5 minutes ago, Hallinger_G said:

but those are different architectures... I understand your point of view but I don't think that is a good "apples to apples" comparison

even 8350k vs 8600k, or 8700k.

By the way:

A repaste with regular thermal paste (medium to high end aka NT-H1,MX-4,Kryonaut,NT-H2), should drop temps a goodly amount, esp. if the laptop has never been repasted. Also cleaning out fan + heatsink + replace thermal pads if dry should lower temps and allow for higher boost clocks.

 

Depending on how much you want to pay, a i7-4710MQ or i7-4700MQ (not HQ, MQ!)

should increase performance by 30-40%. They are ~60-70$ on eBay.

A i7-4800MQ or 4810MQ is 45-50% better for 90-100$, and a 4900MQ is 60% better for 130$

 

A new i5 laptop that has a i5-8300H/8259U would be 80% better,

and a new i5 that has a i5-8250/8350U would be 50% better.

[Mister_G]

3 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

even 8350k vs 8600k, or 8700k.

By the way:

A repaste with regular thermal paste (medium to high end aka NT-H1,MX-4,Kryonaut,NT-H2), should drop temps a goodly amount, esp. if the laptop has never been repasted. Also cleaning out fan + heatsink + replace thermal pads if dry should lower temps and allow for higher boost clocks.

 

Depending on how much you want to pay, a i7-4710MQ or i7-4700MQ (not HQ, MQ!)

should increase performance by 30-40%. They are ~60-70$ on eBay.

A i7-4800MQ or 4810MQ is 45-50% better for 90-100$, and a 4900MQ is 60% better for 130$

 

A new i5 laptop that has a i5-8300H/8259U would be 80% better,

and a new i5 that has a i5-8250/8350U would be 50% better.

WOW! Love the detailed info

 

i have done a clean-up on it (the fan was disgusting) and, because it was never repasted, I have in mind buying some IC diamond. haven't thought in thermal pads.

 

considering what I've read here, either i7-4710MQ or i7-4810MQ will be on my radar but where do you guys find those for <100$? i only see them for >120$.

 

I have considered a new laptop, but I would prefer to build a new machine by spending about 200€ per month in parts so I'll be a slow build. So I plan on upgrading this laptop with 400 to 500€ (I'm in switzerland btw)

[Firewrath9]

30 minutes ago, Hallinger_G said:

WOW! Love the detailed info

 

i have done a clean-up on it (the fan was disgusting) and, because it was never repasted, I have in mind buying some IC diamond. haven't thought in thermal pads.

  

considering what I've read here, either i7-4710MQ or i7-4810MQ will be on my radar but where do you guys find those for <100$? i only see them for >120$.

  

I have considered a new laptop, but I would prefer to build a new machine by spending about 200€ per month in parts so I'll be a slow build. So I plan on upgrading this laptop with 400 to 500€ (I'm in switzerland btw)

Oh, in US its much cheaper. The thing is, after you get something like a i7-4710MQ, there isn't much you can do.

There are no more better cpus, and ram is also limited.

for 500 euros, you can get a laptop that is faster than the i7-4710MQ.

 

maybe look at this.

https://www.dell.com/de-ch/shop/notebooks/inspiron-14-3000/spd/inspiron-14-3480-laptop/cn38001?view=configurations

The i5-8265U is twice as good as your i5-4200M, and is better than the 4710MQ aswell.

You also get new warranty, new screen, new hdd, and potentially better igpu.

[X_X]

@Hallinger_G

See  https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1044306-question-about-alienware-laptop-cpu/?tab=comments#comment-12410214

 

6 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

The i5-8265U is twice as good as your i5-4200M, and is better than the 4710MQ aswell.

Better in what way other than power draw?

[Firewrath9]

13 hours ago, X_X said:

@Hallinger_G

See  https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1044306-question-about-alienware-laptop-cpu/?tab=comments#comment-12410214

 

Better in what way other than power draw?

strength, and power draw/efficency is a major factor, as it increases battery life.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4710MQ-vs-Intel-Core-i5-8265U/m9397vsm566107

also, the new laptop will prob be thinner/quieter, (cooling a 15W vs cooling a 47W part), Newer HDD, new warranty, if using igpu on the 4200M, better igpu (HD 4600 on i7-4710MQ vs UHD 620).

[X_X]

Meh, I said other than power draw. Do be aware though that 15W rating is for base clock which is 1.6GHz while the 4710 is for a base clock of 2.5GHz. 

 

I'm not a fan of userbench, only seems to publish average or mediocre results.

 

For example here's a couple of results I found that were done a while back

 

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/224475

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/613476

 

Perhaps some results from HWBOT would be better, especially those benches that last a lot longer than 30 Seconds. I think you'll find the 8265U gets beaten by a mobile CPU from over 5 years ago.

[Mister_G]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:39 PM, Firewrath9 said:

There are no more better cpus, and ram is also limited.

not a problem to me, I intend to build a new desktop

[Firewrath9]

10 hours ago, X_X said:

Meh, I said other than power draw. Do be aware though that 15W rating is for base clock which is 1.6GHz while the 4710 is for a base clock of 2.5GHz. 

  

I'm not a fan of userbench, only seems to publish average or mediocre results.

  

For example here's a couple of results I found that were done a while back

 

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/224475

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/613476

 

Perhaps some results from HWBOT would be better, especially those benches that last a lot longer than 30 Seconds. I think you'll find the 8265U gets beaten by a mobile CPU from over 5 years ago.

By the way, I doubt its "101%", as 100% is a 7700k. so you are saying a 47W 22nm laptop cpu can beat a 95W desktop 14nm 7700k.

On notebookcheck, it has a median of 610cb, with a few laptops reaching 660cb. This means that most laptops are small, as they have trouble cooling the 15W chip. 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-8265U-SoC-Whiskey-Lake.321340.0.html

 

The 4700mq gets a avg. of 630, with a high of 640. What I can conclude from this is that most laptops have adequate cooling, and for a 45W chip, that means they are big.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-4700MQ-Notebook-Processor.92959.0.html

 

 

Now, onto single-thread, which is what most office/web browsing requires:

i5-8265U gets an avg. of 155cb, with a max of 163

 

The i7-4700MQ gets an avg. of 130cb, with a max of 140cb.

 

Therefore, they are around equal in therms of multi-core, with the i7-4700mq winning w/ a small margin.

However, in single thread, the 8265U is much better.

To get a composite score, I will add the percentages of both, with 600cb being the baseline for multithread, and 150 being it for single.

 

i5-8265U multi (610/600= 101.7%) single (155/150 = 103.3) total = 205 composite score

 

i7-4700MQ = multi (630/600 = 105%), single (130/150 = 87%) = 192 composite score.

 

If you believe I weigher the single thread to much, here is another way, take the percentage of the best one.

 

for multi-thread, the 4700MQ wins, so (630 = 100%, for the i5-8265U, 610/630 = 96%)

for single-thread, the 8265U wins, so (155 = 100%), for the i7-4700MQ, 130/155 = 84%)

Sum for 4700MQ = 100% + 84% = 184% vs 8265U vs 196%.

 

Keep in mind that efficiency is a big factor for laptops, as it determines battery life/size, and cooling size which equals weight, which is prob something you want to keep low for a laptop.

 

[X_X]

8 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

By the way, I doubt its "101%", as 100% is a 7700k. so you are saying a 47W 22nm laptop cpu can beat a 95W desktop 14nm 7700k.

Like I said, that's userbench for you.

 

I don't have a ST CBR15 score to hand but have an MT one of 896 cb. Considering MP ratio will usually be under 5 for same clocks then at least 180cb for ST, probably more.

 

We can take SuperPi from HWBOT, a well known single thread bench and compare how many seconds each takes to complete.

Size	8265U	4700MQ
1M     	9.636   7.846    	4700mq 23% Faster
32M    	572.638 433.774    	4700mq 32% Faster

 

For multi threaded we can use the well known wPrime bench with sizes of 32M and 1024M and again compare how many seconds each takes to complete.

Size	8265U		4700MQ		
32M    	6.064    	5.131    	4700mq 18% Faster
1024M  	271.675    	163.316    	4700mq 66% Faster

66% with 1024M! Does the performance of the 8265U drop off that much on benches that last a fair bit more than 30 seconds? Maybe someone can double check.

 

Now if you want to run efficiently with crippled performance then the 8265U would win of course. For some though it's about maximum performance and you cannot get that being efficient unfortunately.