child abuse and culture differences

[Techstorm970]

15 minutes ago, floofer said:

If ur hitting a child that’s child abuse 

Really not that simple.  If you do it once, it's usually fine.  Unless it's a punch to the face or results in some sort of lasting moderate to severe injury, like a broken bone or a black eye.  Of course, on a one-time occurrence, that is Domestic Violence, not child abuse.  Child abuse arrests require that the children's safety is actually threatened.  A spanking, when done correctly, should inflict pain without actually causing injury.  At that point, the child is not unsafe.  Of course, if it is done too often (like, several times a week, for sake of argument), THEN there is a cause for concern.  Spanking as the go-to form of punishment is generally ineffective past a certain age anyway; in order for the same amount of pain to be inflicted on a teenager (with the same message sent), injury is basically required.  So, unsuitable for older children.

 

Generally, you have to prove with extreme confidence that the parent(s) are an imminent, unrelenting threat to the health and safety of their child.  Infrequent spanking is not nearly enough to prove that.

[Techstorm970]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Spanking is not outright hitting.

 

Law is not an indicator of what's right or wrong.

1st part:  Agree.  It's closer to slapping.

2nd part:  I disagree.  It is in many cases, but morality is a highly debatable topic beyond the universal basics of it.  Some things that U.S. law is ok with aren't moral, some things they aren't ok with are not morally wrong, but in most cases it's a great guideline.

[Tech_Dreamer]

to be fair, if you have to call a so called disciplinary action in terms of "an abuse" & asking if it's right or wrong , you already know what's wrong there , either ways it usually translates into the kid generic growing up to be an asshat scenario. ending up replicating the bad behavior over someone else & ends up in quarantine.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The welfare of children is everyone's business, whether they are yours or not. If you feel they are being abused (and it certainly seems like from your description), then you need to report it to the authorities. There is a huge difference between discipline, including swats on the behind, and physical and emotional abuse.

 

I used to try to talk to people before calling the police, etc. but, far too many times, it just made matters worse. Now, I just call the police or contact the appropriate authority and let them deal with it. They are trained for those situations.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Spanking is not outright hitting.

 

Law is not an indicator of what's right or wrong.

That’s literally what the Law is

[Aimi]

4 minutes ago, floofer said:

That’s literally what the Law is

So is it wrong to be gay since it's outlawed in some places?
Is it wrong to ever question the government, because some places don't allow it?

I could go on.

[BirdyTheMighty]

 

3 hours ago, floofer said:

If ur hitting a child that’s child abuse 

that really depends on how it was done and how seriously it is. Hitting a child on the bum saying you did something wrong to me is not child abuse its called displine. Hitting a child continuously or until they bleed and giving them bruises is child abuse.

well i grew up with probably what you call a traditional parents so strict and i get more of a slap on the bum if i did something wrong. and look at me im completely fine  

[wasab]

My mom used to beat me if i got marks lower than 90s on my exams. That was in 1st, and 2nd grade. 

[wasab]

In my conservative culture, we see family matter as internal family matter and none of public or authority's business. Even if a wife or child gets murder, it would still be internal family business.

 

Btw, sorry if i offend anyone but physically beating your children are usually parent styles of plebs. Weathly and middle class parents rarely lay a finger on their kids and these children usually grew up with greater sense of self esteem, confidence, and excel better in whatever goals they have. 

[TetraSky]

On 3/21/2019 at 3:41 PM, Techstorm970 said:

Spanking as the go-to form of punishment is generally ineffective past a certain age anyway; in order for the same amount of pain to be inflicted on a teenager (with the same message sent), injury is basically required.  So, unsuitable for older children.

This ^

It's more or less effective as a slap on the ass cheeks for kids around 3 to 5... but past that age, nope...

I remember when I was 7 and my mother spanked me... I essentially laughed in her face. Not only did it not hurt, it didn't even look like she wanted to do it. She basically stopped after that.

 

Spanking is a quick and easy way to show that actions have consequences to a young mind.

Yes you could just send your kid in the "reflection corner" or in their bedroom...
But unless you've essentially built a "jail" in said corner to keep them there for a bit, you'll have to stay there with them and force them to stay there until they calm down/realize what they did wrong(could take a LONG time and could end up as an even bigger deal if they outright refuse to stay there and try to leave). As for the room, they usually have all toys and other crap there(we don't all have a dedicated room for kids entertainment) so it's not so much of a punishment to them.

 

For older children these days, you can basically just take away their phone/consoles/tv privilege/etc... to show that their behavior isn't appropriate.... But it might not always work, especially if they were raised until then to think the world owes them a favor for being born.

 

But then again, the last time I ever stole something(I was around 12y), I got slapped across the face by the owner(old foreigner) of the store(could've totally pressed charged for that in Canada... I didn't, didn't even tell my mom he slapped me until years later and she basically said I deserved it, I agreed) after which he essentially forced me to either call my mom for her to come and pay for the item I was stealing(this is in a DOLLARSTORE, so like 1.5$ tops), or he would call the cops... I've never felt more ashamed of myself than at that time sitting behind that counter with everyone staring, swore I'd never steal again... So... sometimes it can help I suppose...

 

Actual corporal punishment, with a fist or "weapon", that cause lasting injuries, is never ok though...

[SenKa]

You don't lay your hand on your fucking kids, plain and simple.

 

Though to us it sounds absurd, the mind of a child is far more active emotionally as well as creatively. This means childhood memories are seen through the light of a child, not through that of logic. That means whats good is extra-good, and what's bad is extra-bad.

 

So, screaming at and spanking a child is really fucking scary to the child, even though through logic it is simple punishment. I was never hit as a child, not while in the stage mentioned above. And thank god I wasn't, because the bad memories i have of my childhood are far darker than they are if I think logically.

 

My fiancee was beaten during this stage, by beating I mean anything from spanking to actual permanent damage, and it traumatized her beyond description. To this very day so much as a raise of voice will frighten her to the point of tears, god forbid somebody hit her (even on accident).

 

I frequently intern with a pediatrician, and we have personally called CPS on the parents of children with marks the parent cannot explain. Most if not all cases, it is found there is a pattern of emotional or physical abuse in the home.

 

If you spank your children, hit your children in any way, or raise your voice to the point of fear at your child/children I sure as hell hope you burn for it.

[Sylvie]

On 3/21/2019 at 7:36 PM, Aimi said:

Cool, but just spanking isn't abuse. 

that's gonna be a hard disagree from me. You can discipline your children without once hurting them, and it's more effective.

[mr moose]

Topics like this piss me off royal, it has little to do with the actual debate but the absolute nature of everyone involved to not want to even consider the opposing view.  You'll never learn or grow in anyway if you don't thoroughly consider in an open manner all views.  

[Phentos]

Gonna get some real hot flames for this, but I'm of the opinion that parents should be allowed to responsibly discipline their children the way they feel they have to, short of actual domestic violence or abuse.

 

If I have children of my own, I doubt I could ever think to raise my hand against them myself. I'm too nice of a person and the thought of purposely hurting someone else physically or emotionally (emphasis on this) is reprehensible to me, especially if it's a child. There are ways of disciplining your child effectively without resorting to corporal punishment. 

 

But again, how parents discipline their own children is their business, so long as it's humane and fair. If the parent sees that corporal punishment is absolutely necessary, at least refrain from using anything else but the palm of their hand. Using a board or a belt is cruel imo.

 

Also screaming at the child while spanking them just makes the experience much worse. It fosters resentment and fear in the child and conditions them to be afraid of you especially if you raise your voice for any other reason in earshot of them. If you absolutely have to spank, be calm and don't raise your voice. Just get it over with and let the child go, then after a bit comfort the child. 

 

Personally my parents tended to use corporal punishment on me until I got old (and big enough) that the effect began to diminish. Though I was a well behaved child, so the actual use of corporal punishment was very rare for me. Most of my family is conservative and very much Christian, so spanking was seen as the norm.

[killcomic]

Well, corporal punishment is never  necessary. It's just a lazy way of discipline. What are you going to do when your child is too old to hit and can smash your face instead?

Maybe it's just me and my upbringing, but I never see hitting a kid as necessary.

I would only call the cops if the child is being put under clear danger of harm and abuse. Other than that, I just think parents are being lazy/ignorant.

 

 

[killcomic]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:00 AM, BirdyTheMighty said:

 

that really depends on how it was done and how seriously it is. Hitting a child on the bum saying you did something wrong to me is not child abuse its called displine. Hitting a child continuously or until they bleed and giving them bruises is child abuse.

well i grew up with probably what you call a traditional parents so strict and i get more of a slap on the bum if i did something wrong. and look at me im completely fine  

Except for the spelling grammar. How's your "displine"?

[Drak3]

4 hours ago, Sylvie said:

You can discipline your children without once hurting them

1 hour ago, Phentos said:

'm too nice of a person and the thought of purposely hurting someone else physically or emotionally (emphasis on this) is reprehensible to me, especially if it's a child.

Spanking a child when they do something bad isn't actually hurting them, provided you're telling them why you're spanking them whilst you do it.

 

1 hour ago, killcomic said:

What are you going to do when your child is too old to hit and can smash your face instead?

If you're still having those types of issues with older children, you're a bad parent.

[Fasauceome]

41 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Spanking a child when they do something bad isn't actually hurting them, provided you're telling them why you're spanking them whilst you do it

Spanking has been shown to be very narrowly and selectively effective, not at all universal. Hell, my friends kids like getting spanked now, talk about the worst outcome you could ask for. Spanking is just a lazy way to discipline, only the people who want to hit kids do it. Those people are fucked up. I've been teaching kids for several years, and the very least effective teaching method I've ever come across is spanking.

[Drak3]

Just now, fasauceome said:

Spanking has been shown to be very narrowly and selectively effective, not at all universal.

Not in early stages of human life.

 

1 minute ago, fasauceome said:

've been teaching kids for several years, and the very least effective teaching method I've ever come across is spanking.

Because that's past the point where spanking is effective, and education systems are designed so that the entry age is past the point that a child learns the basics of actions having consequences (to which, spanking is very effective at teaching).

 

3 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Spanking is just a lazy way to discipline

No, it's not. The near lack of discipline that's become a common parenting tactic is a lazy way to discipline.

[Fasauceome]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it's not. The near lack of discipline that's become a common parenting tactic is a lazy way to discipline.

Spanking is a narrow margin above not disciplining, hence why I said least effective form of discipline.

 

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not in early stages of human life.

 

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Because that's past the point where spanking is effective, and education systems are designed so that the entry age is past the point that a child learns the basics of actions having consequences (to which, spanking is very effective at teaching).

Oh, so you suggest spanking 3 year olds and no older? That's not only barbaric but also foolish and displays a complete lack of comprehension of this issue. A huge number of my students are 6 years old or younger, I can guarantee you spanking them instead of the systems I've been using is vastly less effective. They don't have reasoning skills, that bullshit you said earlier about how if you tell them why you're spanking them while you're spanking them just doesn't make any logical sense.

 

Really, don't weigh in on this if you haven't had extensive experience with child development, since you clearly haven't 

[wasab]

16 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not in early stages of human life.

 

Because that's past the point where spanking is effective, and education systems are designed so that the entry age is past the point that a child learns the basics of actions having consequences (to which, spanking is very effective at teaching).

 

No, it's not. The near lack of discipline that's become a common parenting tactic is a lazy way to discipline.

history has shown spanking kids tend to turn them into psychopaths when they are all grown. Do you know what Joself Stalin and Adolf Hitler have in common? alcoholic fathers who would beat young hilter and stalin senseless during their childhood. 

[BirdyTheMighty]

1 minute ago, wasab said:

history has shown spanking kids tend to turn them into psychopaths when they are all grown. Do you know what Joself Stalin and Adolf Hitler have in common? alcoholic fathers who would beat young hilter and stalin senseless during their childhood. 

yeah what you mention there " alcoholic fathers who would beat young hilter and stalin senseless during their childhood" that is not spanking that is abuse 

[Drak3]

11 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

They don't have reasoning skills, that bullshit you said earlier about how if you tell them why you're spanking them while you're spanking them just doesn't make any logical sense.

Spanking is a part of effective early development of reasoning skills, though positive punishment.

11 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I can guarantee you spanking them instead of the systems I've been using is vastly less effective

Probably because of:

 

11 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

A huge number of my students are 6 years old or younger,

And unless you're teaching a preschool that sees alot of kids not developmentally ready for kindergarten, your students are highly unlikely to be under the age of 5. Techstorm970 and TetraSky already elaborated on the age where spanking is effective.

 

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

history has shown spanking kids tend to turn them into psychopaths when they are all grown.

No, it hasn't. Prior to the past few generations, spanking was commonplace. Far too commonplace to lead to people becoming psychopaths.

 

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

Do you know what Joself Stalin and Adolf Hitler have in common? alcoholic fathers who would beat young hilter and stalin senseless during their childhood. 

1. Spanking =/= beating.
2. Not causation.

 

1 minute ago, BirdyTheMighty said:

yeah what you mention there " alcoholic fathers who would beat young hilter and stalin senseless during their childhood" that is not spanking that is abuse 

We're going to see this conflation quite alot.

[Mister Woof]

You don't know the entire situation, and they aren't your kids or your concern.

 

Myob unless you seriously think the kids are in physical danger.

[wasab]

14 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Spanking is a part of effective early development of reasoning skills, though positive punishment.

Probably because of:

 

And unless you're teaching a preschool that sees alot of kids not developmentally ready for kindergarten, your students are highly unlikely to be under the age of 5. Techstorm970 and TetraSky already elaborated on the age where spanking is effective.

 

No, it hasn't. Prior to the past few generations, spanking was commonplace. Far too commonplace to lead to people becoming psychopaths.

 

1. Spanking =/= beating.
2. Not causation.

 

We're going to see this conflation quite alot.

No, i am pretty sure spanking kids will turn them into psychopaths. 

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/spanking-linked-to-increase-in-childrens-behavior-problems.html

 

watch out. Your kids might turn into genocidal psychopaths if you consistently spank them.