[OLD] PSU Tier List 3.0 (Legacy)

[LukeSavenije]

40 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

this is what I meant, I brought up that the prime ultra titanium's OPP was 140%, just like the G3.

that's not the problem

 

again, i think it's another protection that should've done something to prevent bricking it while testing the opp in aris's testing

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

 and the OTP requires a heat gun

You don't understand what Protections are for.

Its the same with Seatbelts and Airbags in cars. You don't need it for normal operation. 

 

 

OTP you need for:
a) fan fails

b) intake obstructed

c) fan obstructed

 

Or you rather have your PSU catch on fire, because some components are already rated for 175°C or more. And can also be  way hotter than that.

The Transformer can overheat, dust or the carpet can catch on fire.

Yeah, absolutely NOT important...

 

In Jonnyguru someone posted pictures of an old Delta unit that desoldered itself because the fan failed...

 

Same with other protection features. They are there to protect against faults, not needed for normal operation.

 

[Firewrath9]

Just now, Stefan Payne said:

You don't understand what Protections are for.

Its the same with Seatbelts and Airbags in cars. You don't need it for normal operation. 

 

 

OTP you need for:
a) fan fails

b) intake obstructed

c) fan obstructed

 

Or you rather have your PSU catch on fire, because some components are already rated for 175°C or more. And can also be  way hotter than that.

The Transformer can overheat, dust or the carpet can catch on fire.

Yeah, absolutely NOT important...

 

In Jonnyguru someone posted pictures of an old Delta unit that desoldered itself because the fan failed...

 

Same with other protection features. They are there to protect against faults, not needed for normal operation.

 

jesus, did you not see what I replied?

omfg

for OTP, i meant it took Toms HW a heatgun to trigger it, which means the OTP is really really high

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/corsair-rm650x-psu,review-33614-6.html

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

for OTP, i meant it took Toms HW a heatgun to trigger it, which means the OTP is really really high

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-cx750m-psu,4799-6.html

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/corsair-rm650x-psu,review-33614-6.html

The CX750m don't seem to have OTP.

But 113°C is not "really really high", its what you'd expect and the range you'd expect it to be.

2 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

OCP/OTP/OPP, OCP isn't necessary due to single rail design,

oh dear, oh dear...

Here, read that, the last paragraph, under the picture of the insides:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/netzteile/29916-enermax-triathlor-eco-650w-und-lepa-maxbron-700w-im-test.html?start=3

 

THAT is what happens when OPP and OCP isn't there or correctly implemented.

100A on 12V, wich dropped to 6V. Ripple/Noise not measurable.

 

OCP is another safety measure, if you mess up one of them or it fails for whatever reason.

 

 

[Stefan Payne]

7 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

for OTP, i meant it took Toms HW a heatgun to trigger it, which means the OTP is really really high

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/corsair-rm650x-psu,review-33614-6.html

Yes, and??

Does that mean its not important??

 

Just because he used a heatgun doesn't mean its not necessary and you don't need it.

There are other situations where you might not need a heatgun and the PSU overheats.

That depends for example on the Position. What if the PSU is on the side and 12V on top for example?

[Firewrath9]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, and??

Does that mean its not important??

 

Just because he used a heatgun doesn't mean its not necessary and you don't need it.

There are other situations where you might not need a heatgun and the PSU overheats.

That depends for example on the Position. What if the PSU is on the side and 12V on top for example?

wat

never said becuase of that its not important lmao?

i meant it as other PSUs have OTP problems, and you're not bashing them like you bash the G3

I said OCP isn't necessary in a single rail design, not OTP/OPP. Commas were made for a reason

many high-end single rail designs don't have OCP

[Tristerin]

@jonnyGURU you weren't wrong - it wasn't the PSU.  It was MSI Afterburner causing the restarts.  After extensive testing, part replacement, pulling my hair out after admitting its not the PSU, the bowels of reddit had my answer.

 

I was incorrect - I should not have assumed so quickly, and vehemently about the product. 

 

For those of you with Radeon cards, Wattman is no longer playing nice with Afterburner/Riva Statistics Tuner - Im not the only one experiencing this.  Removed MSI Afterburner and Riva, PSU whine completely gone, zero crashes since.  (EDIT - only used AB for fan curve, and didn't utilize Riva at all so no overclocks)

 

Sorry for mucking up the thread, and doing it again with this post but felt a bit of an apology on my end was needed.  Sorry @jonnyGURU!

[_Hustler_One_]

Which tier is the Seasonic Focus Gold SGX (SFX form factor)? Is it generalized as the Focus Gold in the mid-range class?

[LienusLateTips]

1 hour ago, _Hustler_One_ said:

Which tier is the Seasonic Focus Gold SGX (SFX form factor)? Is it generalized as the Focus Gold in the mid-range class?

Should be

[radosuaf]

Hi, I have recently changed my graphic card from 1050 Ti to RX 570. My good old Corsair TX650W (CMPSU-650TX, so quite an old one) developed pretty nice "sizzling" when turning on games (Battlefield 1 for example) since then. As soon as I got to the main menu - sizzling (quite audible), Alt+Tab to the desktop - no sizzling. Well, OK, I decided to buy a new PSU and after reading reviews here and there plus reading the list in the first post here - I went for the BitFenix Formula Gold 450W. Swapped, turned on Battlefield 1 and... there's a buzz. It's very quiet (you have to put your ear next to the PSU), but it's there. Switch to desktop - silence. Is that normal? My system is i5-6402P (no OC) + RX 570 (@1435/8100), 2x8GB DDR4 RAM, 1x SATA SSD, 2x SATA 10K RPM HDDs, 1x SATA DVD-RW, Sound Blaster X-Fi PCI, 3x case fans, nothing too fancy.

[Stefan Payne]

19 hours ago, radosuaf said:

Hi, I have recently changed my graphic card from 1050 Ti to RX 570. My good old Corsair TX650W (CMPSU-650TX, so quite an old one) developed pretty nice "sizzling" when turning on games (Battlefield 1 for example) since then. 

After almost 15 years you should replace the PSU with something modern...

 

Just choose something from this List from Tier B or better...

[radosuaf]

I wrote I have bought a shiny new BitFenix Formula Gold 450W in the same post . The whole thing is that it also makes a silent buzz.

[Oalei]

I'm gonna ask how good is a Japanese conductor and what model uses Japanese conductor, with how things are now is it still as good as before? People say it's a very good stuff (yeah in a sense that it's good in today standards) 

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, Oalei said:

I'm gonna ask how good is a Japanese conductor and what model uses Japanese conductor, with how things are now is it still as good as before? People say it's a very good stuff (yeah in a sense that it's good in today standards) 

????????

 

What are you talking about?!

Japanese Caps?? Those are not important, the rest is more important than the caps.

[Oalei]

11 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

????????

 

What are you talking about?!

Japanese Caps?? Those are not important, the rest is more important than the caps.

thank you, cause people just say its japanese caps so its good so i was just wondering how good is THE CAPS ONLY (that can make the whole PSU is great) and that doenst matter becase what matters is the PSU as a whole. they cant answer anything so do i, so here i am asking this stuff.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Oalei
needed to be more detailed

[bintang]

https://www.enermax.com/home.php?fn=eng/product_a1_1_1&lv0=1&lv1=117&no=379

 

enermax revobron 500w

 

any thoughts?

[Stefan Payne]

37 minutes ago, bintang said:

https://www.enermax.com/home.php?fn=eng/product_a1_1_1&lv0=1&lv1=117&no=379

enermax revobron 500w

any thoughts?

just get something better

[LukeSavenije]

7 hours ago, Oalei said:

thank you, cause people just say its japanese caps so its good so i was just wondering how good is THE CAPS ONLY (that can make the whole PSU is great) and that doenst matter becase what matters is the PSU as a whole. they cant answer anything so do i, so here i am asking this stuff.

that was something from years ago that sticked around for no reason. the country where it comes from doesn't make it better or worse

[Oalei]

3 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

that was something from years ago that sticked around for no reason. the country where it comes from doesn't make it better or worse

Well I was just debating over a PSU with a person and suddenly the person mentioned a Japanese Caps so I was like ok? I don't know that much about PSU insides so I was OK man whatever You say. But with this I know caps do matter but what really matters is everything else also. 

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Oalei said:

Well I was just debating over a PSU with a person and suddenly the person mentioned a Japanese Caps so I was like ok? I don't know that much about PSU insides so I was OK man whatever You say. But with this I know caps do matter but what really matters is everything else also. 

caps do matter

 

if they're japanese or not doesn't

[Oalei]

18 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

caps do matter

 

if they're japanese or not doesn't

Well I just don't want to say anything that I don't really know about, I would rather back down before giving some false information. Well it's because of me saying focus+ is bad with high end hardware, even if its fixed IDK the condition on the retailers because I'm just a buyer so I reccomended PP11/Whisper instead and probably feel offended because he uses focus+ with I5 9600K and 1060 with no issue, I think I don't really specify what problems it have also so I kinda back down (in a sense that I'm completely not very knowledgeable).

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Oalei said:

Well I just don't want to say anything that I don't really know about, I would rather back down before giving some false information. Well it's because of me saying focus+ is bad with high end hardware, even if its fixed IDK the condition on the retailers because I'm just a buyer so I reccomended PP11/Whisper instead and probably feel offended because he uses focus+ with I5 9600K and 1060 with no issue, I think I don't really specify what problems it have also so I kinda back down (in a sense that I'm completely not very knowledgeable).

then tell him that The Mask told you so (dutch psu reviewer at tweakers, works with CM's testing equipment)
 

because that's how i got it

[Stefan Payne]

16 hours ago, Oalei said:

thank you, cause people just say its japanese caps so its good so i was just wondering how good is THE CAPS ONLY (that can make the whole PSU is great) and that doenst matter becase what matters is the PSU as a whole. they cant answer anything so do i, so here i am asking this stuff.

How good is it to put 225er 1st Tier tyres on a LADA?

That's how you have to see caps.

Its the icing on the cake. 

BUT: 

Every (non Japanese) Capacitor Manufacturer has low end to high end products!

Its comparable to for example VW vs Mercedes or BMW in the 90s.

VW now has everything from small cars up to luxory cars. Mercedes and BMW started pretty far up (VW at the time had at least 2 cars below the lowest BMW/Mercedes, wich was 3 Series and C-Class, while VW offered Golf and Polo below that).

Its the same with Capacitors. The Japanese companys start pretty high up on the list, where other manufacturers such as Teapo have at least one but more often even more than that below the Japanese manufacturers.

 

In lower price ranges you can't have high quality caps and decent electronics, you can have, if you're lucky, a decent Electronic with entry level caps. But even that should last for many many years.

 

A shitty PSU with out OCP on all rails, no UVP on 12V and also no UVP is still a shitty Unit, regardless of the caps used.

 

4 hours ago, Oalei said:

Well I just don't want to say anything that I don't really know about, I would rather back down before giving some false information.

Yeah, that's not too bad, Problem is: How do you know the other side is knowlegable and knows what he's talking about?

But its nice of you to ask and trust us...

 

Problem is that even Engineers have absolutely no idea about Caps. They even stand in Front of a Camera and say "Teapo?? Are they still around??"

Yeah and those people, whose knowledge about Caps is 30-50 Years old and they never read up on it since then, still claim that everything non japanese is crap.

 

And the Problem we have is that we have no idea how good a Cap is right now. We can, at best, see how good a cap was 10 years ago.

And then there are those peoples who say "that's a garbage cap. It only lasted 7 Years". Äh, yeah, right...

Quote

Well it's because of me saying focus+ is bad with high end hardware, even if its fixed IDK the condition on the retailers because I'm just a buyer so I reccomended PP11/Whisper instead and probably feel offended because he uses focus+ with I5 9600K and 1060 with no issue, I think I don't really specify what problems it have also so I kinda back down (in a sense that I'm completely not very knowledgeable).

CPUs are less problematic for whatever reason. Whats problematic is the GPU.

And a 1060 is pretty low end, even if it is expensive. Everything under at least 200W TDP (for the GPU) is not relevant and can be powered by every somewhat OKish 400W PSU. Hell even a good quality 300W would be enough (sadly those don't exist).

 

The Focus had Issues with OCP and switched off with certain GPUs and another one is a random reboot with other.

It doesn't even need to be high end as one of the GPUs they listed was the ASUS GTX970 Strix...

 

If you're mean you could accuse Seasonic of building PSU for reviews and not testing them with real world components...

 

 

PS: Nichicon UPS is utter shit...

Very High Impedance, low lifetime...

[Oalei]

54 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

But its nice of you to ask and trust us...

Who else could I trust, that guy?

 

54 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

And a 1060 is pretty low end, even if it is expensive. Everything under at least 200W TDP (for the GPU) is not relevant and can be powered by every somewhat OKish 400W PSU. Hell even a good quality 300W would be enough (sadly those don't exist).

 

The Focus had Issues with OCP and switched off with certain GPUs and another one is a random reboot with other.

It doesn't even need to be high end as one of the GPUs they listed was the ASUS GTX970 Strix...

Well after I re-check what I said is gpu problems such as 980(Ti),1080(Ti),Vega,2080(Ti), with what I said is not enough amps to power those up which I don't really sure about, now I know it's OCP. Thank you very much. 

[bintang]

http://en.1stplayer.com/en/upload/product.php?id=92

 

should i even consider? my friend told me that at least its better than cheap rgb thermaltake