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LienusLateTips

[OLD] PSU Tier List 3.0 (Legacy)

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1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

prime too? i thought only the focus above 420 watts is loud?

Its not the fan RPM with Prime its fan Motor...

I have a 140mm Hong Hua fan that rotates at around 350rpm and its annoying as hell due to the tickering of the motor IC.

 

In theory they could fix it, if they wanted to by changing the Motor IC...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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2 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

they made changes that i'm not aware of?

it has working ocp and opp unlike focus

 

for the whole nzxt e-series btw, not just the 500


PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

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RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

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PS4 FTP Special Edition 500 GB

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3 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

12v out of spec? isn't that another reason to tier it down?

 

3 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

2/5 units failed or were out of spec, doesn't that sound like a reason to tier down?

 

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Öhm, acording to that List there are at least 1 others that really has Problems.


Protection should latch before voltages go out of spec. If not they are set incorrectly.

Also the 150%+ OPP are worrysome.

If this is how you're tiering you've definitely haven't kept consistent to it. Otherwise a third of the units in "S, A+ and A" would be brought down to "B" with the G3. Just to name a couple from the top of my head due to Out-of-spec voltage / ripple or dead from protection testing on one sample... Toughpower iRGB plus, Focus Gold, Antec HCG Gold, Riotoro Enigma...

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45 minutes ago, Rexper said:

If this is how you're tiering you've definitely haven't kept consistent to it. Otherwise a third of the units in "S, A+ and A" would be brought down to "B" with the G3. Just to name a couple from the top of my head due to Out-of-spec voltage / ripple or dead from protection testing on one sample... Toughpower iRGB plus, Focus Gold, Antec HCG Gold, Riotoro Enigma...

it's mainly from the opp(?) issues, but we'll discuss it further with lienus


PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

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CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

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HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

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PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

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I have few questions regarding FSP models:

 

-Hydro Bronze 500w. AFAIK semi-modular, cheap. I assume, not very good quality? No DC-DC, cheap Caps.

-RaiderII Silver: I guess cannot be recommended either. I know the original Raider is tierD, but, I did not find the RaiderII listed.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.


Life is really challenging. I don't always suceed: )

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13 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

No to the Focus and co... they have issues powering a ton of GPUs. OCP is a important protection, too. Ripple is concerning.

 

Basically, I can only recommend these four in the US market @ 550W:

Cheap and good: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FdRFf7/corsair-cx-2017-550w-80-bronze-certified-atx-power-supply-cp-9020121-na

Above, but modular: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3hkwrH/corsair-power-supply-cp9020102na

Fully modular: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/J7F48d/cooler-master-mwe-gold-650-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-mpy-6501-afaag-us

Will last you for quite a while, high quality: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bqVD4D/corsair-rmx-2018-550w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020177-na

 

A few others are nice, on sale.

 

okay, okay. Narrowed it down.......

 

 

I also got a few more questions for all of you:

 

#1: Does the Corsair Vengeance 80+ Silver 650W compare well against the CXMs and TMX Golds?

 

#2: Does a PSU pump out a continuous stable wattage up to the rated amount (as much as my system demands) or does it draw the max wattage from the wall outlet no matter how much my system needs (or doesn't need)?

 

#3: Which affordable, "not doomed to fail" PSU pick would you say be the most quiet under load?

 

#4: How would you say you've become an "expert" on PSUs? Did you buy and test several dozen of these yourself? Extensive data research & analysis from around the web? Community experiences and discussion of almost every conceivable PSU model? Other avenues of acquiring wisdom over the years? 

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Why the 650w units if this is meant for a 'budget' system? 650w would only really be required for high end stuff like a 9900K + 2080Ti. 450/550 would make more sense.

 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#1: Does the Corsair Vengeance 80+ Silver 650W compare well against the CXMs and TMX Golds?

Better than the CXm. Not quite as good as the TXm
 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#2: Does a PSU pump out a continuous stable wattage up to the rated amount (as much as my system demands) or does it draw the max wattage from the wall outlet no matter how much my system needs (or doesn't need)?

It will only draw what your system needs at that time. If you're just sitting idle at the desktop then depending on the system likely 50-75W or so. If you open up Call of Battlefield then maybe 300-400w+.

 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#3: Which affordable, "not doomed to fail" PSU pick would you say be the most quiet under load?

The Be Quiet Pure Power units you listed would be good choices. The RM550x would also be a good pick for silence.


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3 hours ago, Results45 said:

How would you say you've become an "expert" on PSUs?

When you can design a power supply yourself. Probably only one person on these forums.

"knowledgeable" is when you can completely comprehend an Aris review.

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3 minutes ago, Rexper said:

Probably only one person on these forums.

probably not... a electronic engineering student could probably do that

 

i won't say well, but he can


PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

Primary PC:

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CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

GPU: GTX 1070 ti EVGA SC Gaming

RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

Consoles:

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DSI XL Orange

Gameboy Advanced Color

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a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

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5 hours ago, nifty917 said:

a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

Sleeve bearing are the worst - in any configuration, especially upside down. Ball bearing are the best for longevity, though they can be a bit louder at times. 

 

The other types lay somewhere in between. 


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35 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Ball bearing are the best for longevity, though they can be a bit louder at times. 

At normal temperture and medium RPM, FDB is as good or better than Ball Bearing, without the noise disadvantage that 2BB has.

 

Ball Bearing in Consumper products make no sense no more.

The only exception where it might still make sense is GPU Fans. And that's about it.

 

For other stuff, the FDB is superior, for consumer.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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so rifle and hydro are on the same "tier"?

is it ok to have rifle mounted upside down such as top exhaust?

 

thx before

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On 5/4/2019 at 9:04 AM, LukeSavenije said:

but there's one focus based unit i can recommend (not valuewise tho, the unit is normally much more expensive than the focus)

 

nzxt e500

e500 is 10% more expensive than 550w focus
e650 is 15% more expensive than 650w focus
e850 is same price as 850w focus at my place, not sales or anything, just regular prices
you get better protection and better fan, so not that bad, also e500 is exact same rm550x price so it's good if you get NZXT case to match it

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On 5/4/2019 at 3:02 AM, Results45 said:

So below is what I gather as "not bad choices" for someone (like me) looking to get a 450-650W power supply for under $75. Cuz the master-list seems to be organized by general quality, not price.

prices are different everywhere, so you shouldn't take that into consideration


for example some "not bad" priced units at my place are:


bequiet! System Power 9 400W, 80+ bronze - 40 euros
Xilence Performance A+ 430W, 80+ bronze - 42 euros
Corsair CX450, 80+ bronze - 53 euros

Cooler Master MasterWatt 450W, 80+ bronze - 57 euros(this one is semi-modular)
bequiet! Pure Power 11 400W, 80+ gold - 58 euros
SUPER-FLOWER Platinum King 450W, 80+ platinum - 67 euros
BITFENIX Whisper M 450W, 80+ gold - 77 euros(this one is full-modular)

if you need 500W or more to power your system just get something better, obviously prices vary by region, but this should all be decent units unlike your list

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Tom's Hardware have posted their review of the new Enermax MaxRevo 1600/1800w PSU.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-maxrevo-1800w-psu,6070.html

Also up on Cybernetics (has been since last month actually). Going to link both 115V and 230V since the 1800W is only available on 230V mains and 115V is limited to 1600W.

230V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=p8Q

115V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=4gj


(see also: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1035566-enermax-unleashes-the-beastly-maxrevo-1800w-power-supply/)

TLDR; old platform from Enermax being recycled. Poor 12V regulation, okay 12v ripple, 5v, 3.3v pretty average, poor hold up time, 'only' 80+ gold efficiency, multiple 12v rails, DBB fan.

 

No semi-fanless mode. Fan starts at 2000RPM! Has a hearing impaired "Turbo" switch on the back of the unit to spin the fan up to 3000+RPM.

image.png.2822896dbc818fafe4f04f938a914204.png


The cables are bloody hideous. Looks like they come out of a $40 PSU, not what I would expect to get with a $400 PSU.
image.png.746f91fe5702e91ddce97534bc33535d.png


CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x8GB 3000MHz G.Skill Ripjaws 5 | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Corsair H100i AIO | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB | HDD: Seagate Ironwolf 8TB + 2x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

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On 5/5/2019 at 9:53 AM, nifty917 said:

a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

AFAIK

Sleeve is pretty bad.

Hydro+Fluid+rifle are basically fancy sleeves, can be good or bad

ball is louder, but usually more reliable

and theres maglev, which is sleeve but using magnets. best AFAIK


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Pencils: Staedtler 925-05 (.5mm), Pentel Smash Q1005 (.5mm), Uni Kuru Toga Roulette (.5mm), Uni Nano Dia .5mm 2B, Mitsubishi 9850 HB

Pens: Several Uni Signo UM-151s, Several Pilot G2s, Kaweco AL Sport Touch ballpoint

Fountain Pens: Pilot Metropolitan F, Lamy Al-Star M, Lamy CP1 F

Ink: Diamine Jet Black, Diamine Oxford Blue

 

Wishlist (feel free to PM me recommendations): Pentel Orenz .2/.3mm, Pentel Graph for Pro 1000 (.5mm), Rotring 600 (.5mm), Pilot Vanishing Point/Lamy 2000, Pilot Iroshizuki Kon-peki, Noodler's Tiananmen.

 

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still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun


Hello! Feel free to PM me anything. Here's my stuff below!

PC (Main)

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CPU: i5-8400 CPU Cooler: Cryorig M9 Plus   Motherboard: Gigabyte B360M DS3H | RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x8 DDR4-2400 SSD: Inland 480GB SSD | Video Card: RX 570 4GB Strix OC | Case: Fractal Design Meshify C White TGPSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750 Monitor: Sceptre 24" 1080p 75hz Webcam: Logitech C920 Keyboard: Corsair Strafe | Mouse: Corsair Harpoon RGB

 

NAS:

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Synology DS418J w/ 4x WD Red Pro 6TB RAID 10

Seagate 5TB external SMR 2.5" HDD

MS Office 365 - 1TB Onedrive

 

Phone/Tablet:

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iPhone XR 64GB iPad Mini 4 128GB

 

Laptops:

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Dell XPS 15 9570 i7-8750H + 1050 Ti MacBook Air 13" mid-2012

 

Audio:

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Schiit Fulla 2 & Sennheiser HD 598 Cs | Corsair HS70 KZ ZS10 Pro | Audio-Technica LP120USB Audioengine A2+

 

Stationary (new hobby!)

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Pencils: Staedtler 925-05 (.5mm), Pentel Smash Q1005 (.5mm), Uni Kuru Toga Roulette (.5mm), Uni Nano Dia .5mm 2B, Mitsubishi 9850 HB

Pens: Several Uni Signo UM-151s, Several Pilot G2s, Kaweco AL Sport Touch ballpoint

Fountain Pens: Pilot Metropolitan F, Lamy Al-Star M, Lamy CP1 F

Ink: Diamine Jet Black, Diamine Oxford Blue

 

Wishlist (feel free to PM me recommendations): Pentel Orenz .2/.3mm, Pentel Graph for Pro 1000 (.5mm), Rotring 600 (.5mm), Pilot Vanishing Point/Lamy 2000, Pilot Iroshizuki Kon-peki, Noodler's Tiananmen.

 

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1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Tom's Hardware have posted their review of the new Enermax MaxRevo 1600/1800w PSU.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-maxrevo-1800w-psu,6070.html

Also up on Cybernetics (has been since last month actually). Going to link both 115V and 230V since the 1800W is only available on 230V mains and 115V is limited to 1600W.

230V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=p8Q

115V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=4gj


(see also: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1035566-enermax-unleashes-the-beastly-maxrevo-1800w-power-supply/)

TLDR; old platform from Enermax being recycled. Poor 12V regulation, okay 12v ripple, 5v, 3.3v pretty average, poor hold up time, 'only' 80+ gold efficiency, multiple 12v rails, DBB fan.

 

No semi-fanless mode. Fan starts at 2000RPM! Has a hearing impaired "Turbo" switch on the back of the unit to spin the fan up to 3000+RPM.

image.png.2822896dbc818fafe4f04f938a914204.png


The cables are bloody hideous. Looks like they come out of a $40 PSU, not what I would expect to get with a $400 PSU.
image.png.746f91fe5702e91ddce97534bc33535d.png

at least they are 16AWG

17AWG should be more common.

 


Hello! Feel free to PM me anything. Here's my stuff below!

PC (Main)

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NAS:

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Synology DS418J w/ 4x WD Red Pro 6TB RAID 10

Seagate 5TB external SMR 2.5" HDD

MS Office 365 - 1TB Onedrive

 

Phone/Tablet:

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iPhone XR 64GB iPad Mini 4 128GB

 

Laptops:

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Dell XPS 15 9570 i7-8750H + 1050 Ti MacBook Air 13" mid-2012

 

Audio:

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Schiit Fulla 2 & Sennheiser HD 598 Cs | Corsair HS70 KZ ZS10 Pro | Audio-Technica LP120USB Audioengine A2+

 

Stationary (new hobby!)

Spoiler

Pencils: Staedtler 925-05 (.5mm), Pentel Smash Q1005 (.5mm), Uni Kuru Toga Roulette (.5mm), Uni Nano Dia .5mm 2B, Mitsubishi 9850 HB

Pens: Several Uni Signo UM-151s, Several Pilot G2s, Kaweco AL Sport Touch ballpoint

Fountain Pens: Pilot Metropolitan F, Lamy Al-Star M, Lamy CP1 F

Ink: Diamine Jet Black, Diamine Oxford Blue

 

Wishlist (feel free to PM me recommendations): Pentel Orenz .2/.3mm, Pentel Graph for Pro 1000 (.5mm), Rotring 600 (.5mm), Pilot Vanishing Point/Lamy 2000, Pilot Iroshizuki Kon-peki, Noodler's Tiananmen.

 

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Just now, Firewrath9 said:

still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun

well... we think it's ocp

 

it died in the opp test at tomshw


PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

Primary PC:

Spoiler

CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

GPU: GTX 1070 ti EVGA SC Gaming

RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

Consoles:

Spoiler

PS4 Slim Glacier White 500 GB

PS4 FTP Special Edition 500 GB

PS3 Super Slim 500 GB

PS2 OG

Xbox OG

DS Lite White

DS Lite Black/blue

DS Lite Blue

DSI XL Orange

Gameboy Advanced Color

PS Vita v2

Wii

 

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Just now, Firewrath9 said:

still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun

Well, no. If the fan fails then OTP is definitely required. Otherwise if the fan dies you probably won't know until the unit cooks itself to death.
A lot of the PSUs that lack OCP on the 12v rail are single rail PSUs that use OPP for the 12v rail instead. Should still have OCP on 3.3v and 5v.


CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x8GB 3000MHz G.Skill Ripjaws 5 | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Corsair H100i AIO | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB | HDD: Seagate Ironwolf 8TB + 2x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

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1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

well... we think it's ocp

 

it died in the opp test at tomshw

oh yeah, i forgot, its doesnt need ocp, as it has OPP and only 1 rail,

but things that are supposed to be the best of the best

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-ultra-titanium-1000w-psu,5510-6.html

has almost 200c OTP (is that normal)

and 140% OPP aka same as EVGA G3


Hello! Feel free to PM me anything. Here's my stuff below!

PC (Main)

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CPU: i5-8400 CPU Cooler: Cryorig M9 Plus   Motherboard: Gigabyte B360M DS3H | RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x8 DDR4-2400 SSD: Inland 480GB SSD | Video Card: RX 570 4GB Strix OC | Case: Fractal Design Meshify C White TGPSU: EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750 Monitor: Sceptre 24" 1080p 75hz Webcam: Logitech C920 Keyboard: Corsair Strafe | Mouse: Corsair Harpoon RGB

 

NAS:

Spoiler

Synology DS418J w/ 4x WD Red Pro 6TB RAID 10

Seagate 5TB external SMR 2.5" HDD

MS Office 365 - 1TB Onedrive

 

Phone/Tablet:

Spoiler

iPhone XR 64GB iPad Mini 4 128GB

 

Laptops:

Spoiler

Dell XPS 15 9570 i7-8750H + 1050 Ti MacBook Air 13" mid-2012

 

Audio:

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Schiit Fulla 2 & Sennheiser HD 598 Cs | Corsair HS70 KZ ZS10 Pro | Audio-Technica LP120USB Audioengine A2+

 

Stationary (new hobby!)

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Pencils: Staedtler 925-05 (.5mm), Pentel Smash Q1005 (.5mm), Uni Kuru Toga Roulette (.5mm), Uni Nano Dia .5mm 2B, Mitsubishi 9850 HB

Pens: Several Uni Signo UM-151s, Several Pilot G2s, Kaweco AL Sport Touch ballpoint

Fountain Pens: Pilot Metropolitan F, Lamy Al-Star M, Lamy CP1 F

Ink: Diamine Jet Black, Diamine Oxford Blue

 

Wishlist (feel free to PM me recommendations): Pentel Orenz .2/.3mm, Pentel Graph for Pro 1000 (.5mm), Rotring 600 (.5mm), Pilot Vanishing Point/Lamy 2000, Pilot Iroshizuki Kon-peki, Noodler's Tiananmen.

 

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Just now, Firewrath9 said:

OTP temperature depends on where the temperature is measured inside the PSU.


CPU: Intel i7 6700k  | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z170x Gaming 5 | RAM: 2x8GB 3000MHz G.Skill Ripjaws 5 | GPU: Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti | PSU: Corsair RM750x (2018) | Case: BeQuiet SilentBase 800 | Cooler: Corsair H100i AIO | SSD: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB + Samsung 840 500GB | HDD: Seagate Ironwolf 8TB + 2x Seagate Ironwolf 6TB | Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU + Samsung BX2450

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2 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

and 140% OPP aka same as EVGA G3

opp settings are a choice, not a indication of quality


PSU Tier List 4.0//Motherboard Tier List//Community Standards//ATX Specification//Group Regulation//Topologies and Regulations//How many watts?//PSU Protections

Don't forget to quote or mention me

 

Primary PC:

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CPU: I5-8600k 5.0ghz

GPU: GTX 1070 ti EVGA SC Gaming

RAM: 2x8 3333 mhz DDR4 Trident Z

MOBO: MSI Gaming Pro Carbon AC

HDD: 1 TB 7200 RPM Seagate Baracudda, 1 TB 5400 RPM Samsung Spinpoint HD103SI

SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB

Case: Cooler Master Masterbox Lite 5 RGB (modified)

PSU: Seasonic Focus GX650

 

Consoles:

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PS4 Slim Glacier White 500 GB

PS4 FTP Special Edition 500 GB

PS3 Super Slim 500 GB

PS2 OG

Xbox OG

DS Lite White

DS Lite Black/blue

DS Lite Blue

DSI XL Orange

Gameboy Advanced Color

PS Vita v2

Wii

 

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