[OLD] PSU Tier List 3.0 (Legacy)

[Vejnemojnen]

I have few questions regarding FSP models:

 

-Hydro Bronze 500w. AFAIK semi-modular, cheap. I assume, not very good quality? No DC-DC, cheap Caps.

-RaiderII Silver: I guess cannot be recommended either. I know the original Raider is tierD, but, I did not find the RaiderII listed.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Results45]

13 hours ago, LienusLateTips said:

No to the Focus and co... they have issues powering a ton of GPUs. OCP is a important protection, too. Ripple is concerning.

 

Basically, I can only recommend these four in the US market @ 550W:

Cheap and good: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FdRFf7/corsair-cx-2017-550w-80-bronze-certified-atx-power-supply-cp-9020121-na

Above, but modular: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3hkwrH/corsair-power-supply-cp9020102na

Fully modular: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/J7F48d/cooler-master-mwe-gold-650-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-mpy-6501-afaag-us

Will last you for quite a while, high quality: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bqVD4D/corsair-rmx-2018-550w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020177-na

 

A few others are nice, on sale.

 

okay, okay. Narrowed it down.......

 

• Corsair CX/CXM Black Bronze 550/650
• Corsair TXM Gold 550/650
• Corsair RMx Gold 550 (if $10-$25 cheaper)
• Cooler Master MWE Gold 550/650
• EVGA BQ Bronze 500/600/650 (if $10-$20 cheaper)
• Be Quiet! Pure Power 10 Silver/11 Gold 600

 

I also got a few more questions for all of you:

 

#1: Does the Corsair Vengeance 80+ Silver 650W compare well against the CXMs and TMX Golds?

 

#2: Does a PSU pump out a continuous stable wattage up to the rated amount (as much as my system demands) or does it draw the max wattage from the wall outlet no matter how much my system needs (or doesn't need)?

 

#3: Which affordable, "not doomed to fail" PSU pick would you say be the most quiet under load?

 

#4: How would you say you've become an "expert" on PSUs? Did you buy and test several dozen of these yourself? Extensive data research & analysis from around the web? Community experiences and discussion of almost every conceivable PSU model? Other avenues of acquiring wisdom over the years? 

[Spotty]

Why the 650w units if this is meant for a 'budget' system? 650w would only really be required for high end stuff like a 9900K + 2080Ti. 450/550 would make more sense.

 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#1: Does the Corsair Vengeance 80+ Silver 650W compare well against the CXMs and TMX Golds?

Better than the CXm. Not quite as good as the TXm
 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#2: Does a PSU pump out a continuous stable wattage up to the rated amount (as much as my system demands) or does it draw the max wattage from the wall outlet no matter how much my system needs (or doesn't need)?

It will only draw what your system needs at that time. If you're just sitting idle at the desktop then depending on the system likely 50-75W or so. If you open up Call of Battlefield then maybe 300-400w+.

 

1 minute ago, Results45 said:

#3: Which affordable, "not doomed to fail" PSU pick would you say be the most quiet under load?

The Be Quiet Pure Power units you listed would be good choices. The RM550x would also be a good pick for silence.

[Rexper]

3 hours ago, Results45 said:

How would you say you've become an "expert" on PSUs?

When you can design a power supply yourself. Probably only one person on these forums.

"knowledgeable" is when you can completely comprehend an Aris review.

[LukeSavenije]

3 minutes ago, Rexper said:

Probably only one person on these forums.

probably not... a electronic engineering student could probably do that

 

i won't say well, but he can

[nifty917]

a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

[Vejnemojnen]

Oh and btw, how typical is the use of ceramic bearings? Just curious.

[MEC-777]

5 hours ago, nifty917 said:

a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

Sleeve bearing are the worst - in any configuration, especially upside down. Ball bearing are the best for longevity, though they can be a bit louder at times. 

 

The other types lay somewhere in between. 

[Stefan Payne]

35 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Ball bearing are the best for longevity, though they can be a bit louder at times. 

At normal temperture and medium RPM, FDB is as good or better than Ball Bearing, without the noise disadvantage that 2BB has.

 

Ball Bearing in Consumper products make no sense no more.

The only exception where it might still make sense is GPU Fans. And that's about it.

 

For other stuff, the FDB is superior, for consumer.

[bintang]

so rifle and hydro are on the same "tier"?

is it ok to have rifle mounted upside down such as top exhaust?

 

thx before

[komi1997]

On 5/4/2019 at 9:04 AM, LukeSavenije said:

but there's one focus based unit i can recommend (not valuewise tho, the unit is normally much more expensive than the focus)

 

nzxt e500

e500 is 10% more expensive than 550w focus
e650 is 15% more expensive than 650w focus
e850 is same price as 850w focus at my place, not sales or anything, just regular prices
you get better protection and better fan, so not that bad, also e500 is exact same rm550x price so it's good if you get NZXT case to match it

[komi1997]

On 5/4/2019 at 3:02 AM, Results45 said:

So below is what I gather as "not bad choices" for someone (like me) looking to get a 450-650W power supply for under $75. Cuz the master-list seems to be organized by general quality, not price.

prices are different everywhere, so you shouldn't take that into consideration

for example some "not bad" priced units at my place are:

bequiet! System Power 9 400W, 80+ bronze - 40 euros
Xilence Performance A+ 430W, 80+ bronze - 42 euros
Corsair CX450, 80+ bronze - 53 euros

Cooler Master MasterWatt 450W, 80+ bronze - 57 euros(this one is semi-modular)
bequiet! Pure Power 11 400W, 80+ gold - 58 euros
SUPER-FLOWER Platinum King 450W, 80+ platinum - 67 euros
BITFENIX Whisper M 450W, 80+ gold - 77 euros(this one is full-modular)

if you need 500W or more to power your system just get something better, obviously prices vary by region, but this should all be decent units unlike your list

[Spotty]

Tom's Hardware have posted their review of the new Enermax MaxRevo 1600/1800w PSU.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-maxrevo-1800w-psu,6070.html

Also up on Cybernetics (has been since last month actually). Going to link both 115V and 230V since the 1800W is only available on 230V mains and 115V is limited to 1600W.

230V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=p8Q

115V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=4gj

(see also: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1035566-enermax-unleashes-the-beastly-maxrevo-1800w-power-supply/)

TLDR; old platform from Enermax being recycled. Poor 12V regulation, okay 12v ripple, 5v, 3.3v pretty average, poor hold up time, 'only' 80+ gold efficiency, multiple 12v rails, DBB fan.

 

No semi-fanless mode. Fan starts at 2000RPM! Has a hearing impaired "Turbo" switch on the back of the unit to spin the fan up to 3000+RPM.

The cables are bloody hideous. Looks like they come out of a $40 PSU, not what I would expect to get with a $400 PSU.

[Firewrath9]

On 5/5/2019 at 9:53 AM, nifty917 said:

a little bit out of topic but what types of bearing are the best?rifle,hydro,fluid,ball which one is best to worst? also i heard some types of bearing shouldnt be placed facing down (using as top exhaust) is that true?

AFAIK

Sleeve is pretty bad.

Hydro+Fluid+rifle are basically fancy sleeves, can be good or bad

ball is louder, but usually more reliable

and theres maglev, which is sleeve but using magnets. best AFAIK

[Firewrath9]

still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun

[Firewrath9]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Tom's Hardware have posted their review of the new Enermax MaxRevo 1600/1800w PSU.

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/enermax-maxrevo-1800w-psu,6070.html

Also up on Cybernetics (has been since last month actually). Going to link both 115V and 230V since the 1800W is only available on 230V mains and 115V is limited to 1600W.

230V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=p8Q

115V - https://www.cybenetics.com/code/pdf.php?id=4gj

(see also: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1035566-enermax-unleashes-the-beastly-maxrevo-1800w-power-supply/)

TLDR; old platform from Enermax being recycled. Poor 12V regulation, okay 12v ripple, 5v, 3.3v pretty average, poor hold up time, 'only' 80+ gold efficiency, multiple 12v rails, DBB fan.

 

No semi-fanless mode. Fan starts at 2000RPM! Has a hearing impaired "Turbo" switch on the back of the unit to spin the fan up to 3000+RPM.

The cables are bloody hideous. Looks like they come out of a $40 PSU, not what I would expect to get with a $400 PSU.

at least they are 16AWG

17AWG should be more common.

 

[LukeSavenije]

Just now, Firewrath9 said:

still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun

well... we think it's ocp

 

it died in the opp test at tomshw

[Spotty]

Just now, Firewrath9 said:

still don't know why G3 gets bashed for the OCP and the OTP when some psus higher up don't even have OCP, and the OTP requires a heat gun

Well, no. If the fan fails then OTP is definitely required. Otherwise if the fan dies you probably won't know until the unit cooks itself to death.
A lot of the PSUs that lack OCP on the 12v rail are single rail PSUs that use OPP for the 12v rail instead. Should still have OCP on 3.3v and 5v.

[Firewrath9]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

well... we think it's ocp

 

it died in the opp test at tomshw

oh yeah, i forgot, its doesnt need ocp, as it has OPP and only 1 rail,

but things that are supposed to be the best of the best

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-ultra-titanium-1000w-psu,5510-6.html

has almost 200c OTP (is that normal)

and 140% OPP aka same as EVGA G3

[Spotty]

Just now, Firewrath9 said:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-ultra-titanium-1000w-psu,5510-6.html

has almost 200c OTP (is that normal) 

OTP temperature depends on where the temperature is measured inside the PSU.

[LukeSavenije]

2 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

and 140% OPP aka same as EVGA G3

opp settings are a choice, not a indication of quality

[Firewrath9]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Well, no. If the fan fails then OTP is definitely required. Otherwise if the fan dies you probably won't know until the unit cooks itself to death.
A lot of the PSUs that lack OCP on the 12v rail are single rail PSUs that use OPP for the 12v rail instead. Should still have OCP on 3.3v and 5v.

for OTP, i meant it took Toms HW a heatgun to trigger it, which means the OTP is really really high

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-cx750m-psu,4799-6.html

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/corsair-rm650x-psu,review-33614-6.html

[Firewrath9]

Just now, LukeSavenije said:

opp settings are a choice, not a indication of quality

so why again is the G3 bad, i heard it was noisy fan (not that I or cybernetics could tell), OCP/OTP/OPP, OCP isn't necessary due to single rail design, OTP is high, but not necesarily higher than others, and OPP doesn't matter

[Spotty]

11 minutes ago, Firewrath9 said:

so why again is the G3 bad, i heard it was noisy fan (not that I or cybernetics could tell), OCP/OTP/OPP, OCP isn't necessary due to single rail design, OTP is high, but not necesarily higher than others, and OPP doesn't matter

OPP does matter...
Conversation about the G3 and its placement came up a few days ago. Go back to page 33/34 and have a look at some of the discussion there. 
Here were my thoughts on its placement, but I'd recommend reading through the entire discussion: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1045610-new-psu-tier-list/?do=findComment&comment=12531497

[Firewrath9]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

OPP does matter...
 

this is what I meant, I brought up that the prime ultra titanium's OPP was 140%, just like the G3.

18 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

opp settings are a choice, not a indication of quality