[OLD] PSU Tier List 3.0 (Legacy)

[Stefan Payne]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Sorry if this has been asked already but I don't really feel like reading 33 pages... Why is the evga g3 considered poorer than the G2?  My understanding was that the quality was as good or better and the only downside was potentially more fan noise.

OPP is set a bit high so it might burn under overload and die.

OTP is set really really high

 

The usual sutff that really differentiates PSU these days: Protection. Protection and Protection. The electrical stuff is fine for most units.

[Stefan Payne]

7 hours ago, 123Abdallah said:

Is 620 watt psu enough for i5 9600k and rtx 2080 gaming x trio which is the gpu recommend psu is 650watt

As Jon said.

Look for a different PSU. Its not the Wattage, its the way the PSU is made/constructed that makes it not desirable for any somewhat higher end system.

 

In short: Its an old design, lacks protection, is loud as hell under medium loads (the 300-400W you might reach with that system)...

And you also can get far better units for the money...

[123Abdallah]

11 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

What 620W?  If Sesaonic M12II, I think I know the answer. 

 

Yes seasonic s12 620w

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Sorry if this has been asked already but I don't really feel like reading 33 pages... 

Probably a good reason for people to start new threads.

 

 

[LukeSavenije]

4 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

Probably a good reason for people to start new threads.

 

 

yeah... but for some reason people like to ask it here

[Tristerin]

11 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Reboot isn't typically a PSU issue.  Shut down is.

 

If it's rebooting, look at RAM as a possible source of your issue.

 

Coil whine is something that occurs in lots of PSUs, new and old, and can vary based on hardware used and the load.  The whine is caused by electricity flowing through magnetics (transformer, coils, etc.) at an audible frequency.  It does not point to a defective PSU.

 

They give the PSU a 7 year warranty because they expect it to only last 7 years.  Of all of the parts in a PC, the PSU easily works the hardest, yet is the one that is often overlooked and is left in the PC from upgrade to upgrade because there's no way to "benchmark" a PSU without very expensive equipment.

Windows Event Viewer shows a power failure each time its occured (not at home again right now so cant give a screen/exact nomenclature) and the way its worded (on each instance it occurs, and Wattman pops up saying there was a power issue and the GPU restarted) is indicative to me as a PSU issue, because the whine just developed last week to the point of having a quiet PC to having one I can absolutely hear as soon as load is put on the PSU.  Ill run memtest but I 100% doubt is the RAM, and have another DDR4 dual channel kit to check just in case as well.  99% of every other indication says yes, PSU can cause Restarts so not sure why you would say this wouldn't be indicative of a PSU as I am not getting anything but this restart (no BSOD, BlackSOD, shut downs, memory codes, etc - the things that point to RAM). 

 

I understand why you say its oft overlooked - but in my cases that isn't even the case.  Every PSU Ive owned was, at its time of purchase, was considered a tier 1 PSU when it was released.  So I expect the highest end equipment to provide me with years of enjoyment, even beyond the Warranty.  Cars still get Lemon Laws even though it passes up its Warranty provided by the Manufacturer.

 

I cant rule out the GPU yet, as I cannot replicate.  But I can say that the whine is still there with a 130w GPU, as soon as load is dropped on the single (instead of using both) PCIe 6+2 pin coming from the PSU.

 

They give the PSU a warranty of 7 years because anything short of that is a PSU failure at this pricepoint.  Since I bought this in December 2012, this is still within Warranty so - failure.  You seem to be thinking I have no leg to stand on here - which is whatever in my case I don't care that is your opinion and you can opine it - however, everything you are saying screams to me Industry Excuses.  And if buying a PSU at that pricepoint still doesn't get me through the Warranty - why would I ever go through the hassle of that brand again?  My ANTECs and EVGA (old, used to be T1 PSUs) PSUs are still kicking it with zero issues and they are older than my HX.  And I paid a lot less.

 

Anyhow, I didn't get time to pull the PSU last night so will run the voltmeter across the PCIe rails - Im still bettings its one of them, or could be that one of the "legs" in the PCIe connector isn't making a good connection but that doesn't explain the sudden whine developed.

 

If you want, we can continue on this thread - but that wouldn't seem right given the amount of "why not make your own threads" you espouse. And the reason I haven't created a thread on this, is - it doesn't have me stumped.  Its the PSU.  Theres a slight off chance its the GPU but last nights troubleshooting has removed even more of the onus on the GPU - to the PSU being the culprit.

[Vejnemojnen]

Meanwhile in local forum thread: Someone requires assistance to decide, which unit to choose (550w)

- Corsair RMX (2018)

- Evga G3

- SuperFlower Leadex Platina

 

I'd go with the corsair due to 10y warranty time, if I were him. Any reason to choose any of the other two?

[keizo]

what to pick aerocool project 7 750w, corsair rm750i , or some seasonic or something else?

Why some people tell that aerocool project 7 is bad PSU ?

[LukeSavenije]

23 minutes ago, keizo said:

what to pick aerocool project 7 750w, corsair rm750i , or some seasonic or something else?

some seasonic? if you're going to get one, at least get a prime. focus really isn't that good...

[LukeSavenije]

35 minutes ago, Vejnemojnen said:

Meanwhile in local forum thread: Someone requires assistance to decide, which unit to choose (550w)

at that price point... get a rmx

 

the difference between platinum and gold is minimal, and there's nothing wrong with it, unlike the g3

[vanished]

2 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Probably a good reason for people to start new threads.

Yeah we don't want personal questions like which psu should I buy, troubleshooting, etc. in here, just questions about the list itself, but inevitably that will happen here or there and regardless at some point even the legitimately relevant discussion will have piled up to far too much so it's kinda unavoidable.

[AndreiArgeanu]

On 3/18/2019 at 7:22 AM, dizmo said:

I still think it's stupid to have S above A.

No, not really, actually reminds of NFS World where the classes go from E I think all the way up to S

[AndreiArgeanu]

Why would you pay 200£ for a 850W PSU (ROG Thor). What does it do to deserve its price? Talking about performance not aesthetics 

[LukeSavenije]

49 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Why would you pay 200£ for a 850W PSU (ROG Thor). What does it do to deserve its price? Talking about performance not aesthetics 

nothing

 

because in the inside it's a slightly modified seasonic prime

[XR6]

1 hour ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Why would you pay 200£ for a 850W PSU (ROG Thor). What does it do to deserve its price? Talking about performance not aesthetics 

There's no reason to pay £200 for that, it's only £200 because it has ROG branding on it. It's overpriced (as ROG products usually are).

It's just a slightly modified Seasonic Prime Platinum with ROG branding on it.

[seon123]

1 hour ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Why would you pay 200£ for a 850W PSU (ROG Thor). What does it do to deserve its price? Talking about performance not aesthetics 

Well, it performs well, and has a long hold up time. 

https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=database&manfID=66&volts=1

Compared to the Prime, it also adds RGB and the power monitoring thing on the side. I wouldn't recommend it for any rig, though, as it just doesn't make sense. 

[Rexper]

15 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Sorry if this has been asked already but I don't really feel like reading 33 pages... Why is the evga g3 considered poorer than the G2?  My understanding was that the quality was as good or better and the only downside was potentially more fan noise.

It isn't any worse the G2. The list creators like to exaggerate the protection flaws in the G3, but fail to recognise the G2 has the same flaws, if not worse.

Some protection testing on EVGA G2 550

[vanished]

54 minutes ago, Rexper said:

It isn't any worse the G2. The list creators like to exaggerate the protection flaws in the G3, but fail to recognise the G2 has the same flaws, if not worse.

Some protection testing on EVGA G2 550

Hmm well someone must be wrong... Looks like this needs more investigation

[LukeSavenije]

18 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Hmm well someone must be wrong... Looks like this needs more investigation

i mean... this should say enough imo

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-1000-g3-psu,4941-6.html

[vanished]

8 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

i mean... this should say enough imo

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-1000-g3-psu,4941-6.html

Well that seems pretty clear.  Now I guess we just need to see if they got a bad unit or they're exaggerating the issue, which should be possible to determine by seeing if others who test for this sort of thing found the same problems.  If they did, then it would seem its place in the list is deserved, and it's just a matter of seeing if the G2s also have these issues or not.

[seon123]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well that seems pretty clear.  Now I guess we just need to see if they got a bad unit or they're exaggerating the issue, which should be possible to determine by seeing if others who test for this sort of thing found the same problems.  If they did, then it would seem its place in the list is deserved, and it's just a matter of seeing if the G2s also have these issues or not.

We're planning to bump down all PSUs that lack OTP to tier A, and same for high wattage single rail PSUs. So it probably won't matter anyway. 

Still not decided how many watts is required for "high wattage", and I also don't have too much time to bump the PSUs down, at least for the next few weeks. 

[vanished]

23 minutes ago, seon123 said:

We're planning to bump down all PSUs that lack OTP to tier A, and same for high wattage single rail PSUs. So it probably won't matter anyway. 

Still not decided how many watts is required for "high wattage", and I also don't have too much time to bump the PSUs down, at least for the next few weeks. 

I wonder if it might make sense to have everything in a table rather than a list.  Might make updates such as this easier.  For example, keep the "master copy" in google sheets, excel, open office, etc. and then just copy that to the forum whenever there's a change, either in that tabular form, or have a simple formula or macro that generates a more text-like output such as what currently exists.

 

For example the master list could be something like this:

That way, when you need to change a few models it's as easy as changing their tier cell rather than having to take their name and move it to a new line, marge it with existing ones, etc.

Company	Model	Tier
EVGA	P2	A+
EVGA	T2	A+
EVGA	G2	A+
EVGA	PS	A+
EVGA	1000G1	A
EVGA	G1+	A
EVGA	GQ	A
EVGA	GD	A
Antec	High Current Pro	S
Antec	High Current Platinum	S
Antec	Earthwatts Pro Gold	A
Antec	HCG Gold	A
Be Quiet!	Dark Power Pro 11	S
Be Quiet!	Straight Power 11	A+
Be Quiet!	Dark Power Pro P10	A+
Be Quiet!	Straight Power E10	A
Be Quiet!	Pure Power 10/11 =>400W	A
Cooler Master	MasterWatt Maker MiJ	S
Cooler Master	V series	A+
Cooler Master	MasterWatt Maker	A+
Cooler Master	VSM-series =>550W	A
Cooler Master	MWE Gold	A

  

 

You could have a simple formula or macro that then reads this table and creates an output either like you already have, or in a different table form, such as this:

	Tier S	Tier A+	Tier A
EVGA		P2 T2 G2 PS	1000G1 G1+ GQ GD
Antec	High Current Pro High Current Platinum		Earthwatts Pro Gold HCG Gold
Be Quiet!	Dark Power Pro 11	Straight Power 11 Dark Power Pro P10	Straight Power E10 Pure Power 10/11 =>400W
Cooler Master	MasterWatt Maker MiJ	V series MasterWatt Maker	VSM-series =>550W MWE Gold

[Results45]

Hey guys! Does anybody here know whether these PSUs are any good (and why) compared to those on the "official list"?

• Corsair VS550/650
• EVGA BR 450/500/600/700

.

[Spotty]

4 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Hmm well someone must be wrong... Looks like this needs more investigation

The concerns around the EVGA G3 and its protections stem from the Tom's Hardware article in which one of the units Aris tested failed during testing.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-supernova-1000-g3-psu,4941-6.html
The unit failed during OPP testing. He doesn't give any details on how the unit failed, or what component failed, or any further information beyond "it failed". While he suggests it might be possible that the OPP is set too high for that unit to handle, he also suggests the possibility that it was simply just a bad unit that he got for testing.
All other G3 units tested by Tom's Hardware (Aris) completed testing without issue, and all had OPP trip at around 140% load and safely shut down to protect itself. As far as I know, there have been no further reports of units failing due to OPP issues in tests.

OPP tripping at around 140% is at the high end of the spectrum, so it is fair for a reviewer to say that tripping at 140% on OPP is higher than they would like, with preferred trip point usually being somewhere between 115%-130%. Though with that said, 140% is actually rather common for OPP, with many other units, including ones that are currently in Tier S, also tripping at around 140% on OPP when tested by Tom's Hardware. (eg. Seasonic Prime units https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-ultra-platinum-1000w-psu,5397-6.html)

As pointed out by @Rexper, the EVGA G2 has just as bad or possibly even worse OPP protection.

5 hours ago, Rexper said:

It isn't any worse the G2. The list creators like to exaggerate the protection flaws in the G3, but fail to recognise the G2 has the same flaws, if not worse.

Some protection testing on EVGA G2 550

You might need google translate to help read the article, but in it it's showing that OPP for the EVGA G2 550W tripped at 69A on 12V, which is roughly 150% load before OPP kicked in.
So I wouldn't agree with the people who are directly comparing the EVGA G3 to the G2 and saying "Don't buy the EVGA G3, it has bad OPP!!! Buy the EVGA G2 instead it's much better!!". It just doesn't make any sense when you consider the EVGA G2's protections.

Any time that a unit fails during testing it's worth acknowledging and taking seriously. Any doubts or concerns regarding a unit are usually reflected in the Tier List, at least until the issue is identified/confirmed or ruled out completely. Having a unit fail during OPP testing does raise some concerns regarding its OPP, however AFAIK they have yet to be confirmed and we haven't seen any other failures to suggest that it is a repeatable issue with the entire G3 range.
We have only seen one EVGA G3 fail during testing, that was an EVGA G3 1000W. There's no information about why it failed, so we have no idea whether or not it's a problem with the entire EVGA G3 range, just the EVGA G3 1000W in particular, or if the particular unit tested was simply a bad test sample (ie. manufacturing defect that slipped through Q.C., etc).

It's worth having a discussion about the potential concerns and doubts of the unit... However most of the comments I see on this forum regarding it I feel are exaggerating the situation and I'm starting to notice an echo chamber effect where people are going around saying it's bad just because they read someone else say it was bad when that person also just read that someone else said it was bad. End up with a lot of people going around saying it's bad or broken without understanding what the doubts & concerns with the unit are.
When browsing the new builds section I might see someone comment saying "Don't buy the EVGA G3! It's bad!! Swap it for the EVGA G2 instead, it's better", but if I question why they think it's bad and what their concerns with the unit are, they will simply respond "Check the PSU tier list"

Personally I wouldn't recommend the EVGA G3 1000W regardless. If someone is looking at a 1000W PSU then they have a very high end rig with multiple high end graphics cards and should be looking at better units anyway, preferably ones with multi rail design.

[Spotty]

5 hours ago, seon123 said:

We're planning to bump down all PSUs that lack OTP to tier A, and same for high wattage single rail PSUs. So it probably won't matter anyway. 

Still not decided how many watts is required for "high wattage"

Well there goes half of Tier S and Tier A+
Are you going to split the models up in to different tiers? For example, would an RM550x remain in Tier A+ while the RM1000x be bumped down to Tier A? Might end up with a lot of clutter in the list.