Do all the 2080 gpus perform the same?

[Jurrunio]

28 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

PCB, VRMs

20 series has such overkill reference boards and being relatively expensive, it's hard to find a PCB that's actually bad. Zotac one is kinda meh, but that's nothing compared to what Polaris PCBs range from.

 

31 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

higher clock speeds and boost out of the box, then start OCing them

Start out slower + Bigger offset = the same

 

33 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

the high end cards have better cooling

this only affects performance to a certain point, the point where GPUs stop scaling with temperature. For Turing, unless you can put a 20 degrees delta temperature between two GPUs (say one's at 60C and the other at 80C), silicon lottery is still the bigger factor.

[Ankerson]

19 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

20 series has such overkill reference boards and being relatively expensive, it's hard to find a PCB that's actually bad. Zotac one is kinda meh, but that's nothing compared to what Polaris PCBs range from.

 

Start out slower + Bigger offset = the same

 

this only affects performance to a certain point, the point where GPUs stop scaling with temperature. For Turing, unless you can put a 20 degrees delta temperature between two GPUs (say one's at 60C and the other at 80C), silicon lottery is still the bigger factor.

 

 

The ZOTAC's are meh anyway... LOL

 

The start lower and end up the same is not actually true, rarely actually unless they get really lucky (Wouldn't count on that), the higher end cards have higher binned chips also. (My FTW3 2080Ti Ultra boosts to 2025 with no OC for example and will go well over 2100 OCed, a lot of the 2080Ti's won't even do 2100)

 

I have never seen temps over 65C with my 2080Ti even OCed to the moon.

 

Yes, temps are EVERYTHING with GPU boost 3, so the cooler the better on top of the rest.

 

Everything does matter. 

[Jurrunio]

7 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

The start lower and end up the same is not actually true, rarely actually unless they get really lucky (Wouldn't count on that), the higher end cards have higher binned chips also.

it's not binned until the manufacturer makes a GPU overclocking competition. I have a friend that bought the 980Ti Hall of Fame shiny new, just to find out it won't complete Fire Strike Extreme at 1450MHz, maxed out power limit and voltage (doesnt hit power limit anyway). What gives you the false feel that high end cards overclock better are their higher power limits, which you can solve by flashing the high end card's BIOS into a cheaper one. I won't try this on 2080Ti with worse than reference PCBs, thankfully that doesnt filter out a lot of cards.

[Ankerson]

11 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

it's not binned until the manufacturer makes a GPU overclocking competition. I have a friend that bought the 980Ti Hall of Fame shiny new, just to find out it won't complete Fire Strike Extreme at 1450MHz, maxed out power limit and voltage (doesnt hit power limit anyway). What gives you the false feel that high end cards overclock better are their higher power limits, which you can solve by flashing the high end card's BIOS into a cheaper one. I won't try this on 2080Ti with worse than reference PCBs, thankfully that doesnt filter out a lot of cards.

 

I noticed some have already been doing that, doesn't work all the time however and could end up frying the card or turning it into a paperweight and voiding the warranty.

 

Not worth it IMO given the cost of the current cards, they are not exactly cheap anymore.

 

It's not like the high end cards are $300 like back in the day, those days are long gone.

 

One can actually build a pretty good system for the cost of a RTX 2080Ti, especially the high end ones.

[Jurrunio]

23 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

doesn't work all the time however

use the integrated graphics to get into Windows again and reflash the card with another BIOS then, you can't brick the card so hard that NVflash doesnt detect it unless it's for a different GPU, in which you totally deserve it.

 

24 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

could end up frying the card

that's why while it doesnt need to be the best card, it still needs to be a decent one. While we're on frying stuff, how that CPU didn't fry your board?

 

25 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

turning it into a paperweight and voiding the warranty.

flashing the original bios back, lock it with nvflash, and you're done. Can't check for firmware change if you completely reverse what you did when flashing BIOS.

[Ankerson]

3 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

 

 

that's why while it doesnt need to be the best card, it still needs to be a decent one. While we're on frying stuff, how that CPU didn't fry your board?

 

.

 

HUH?

[Jurrunio]

3 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

 

HUH?

did you not notice how bad the VRM on your Z370 Gaming 5 is? Think about an EVGA RTX 2060 XC's VRM powering a 2080, that's how much power it will draw when overclocked. Meanwhile VRM efficiency is still worse on your side so you need more VRM cooling, but with those heatsinks your board isn;t having much.

[Ankerson]

8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

did you not notice how bad the VRM on your Z370 Gaming 5 is? Think about an EVGA RTX 2060 XC's VRM powering a 2080, that's how much power it will draw when overclocked. Meanwhile VRM efficiency is still worse on your side so you need more VRM cooling, but with those heatsinks your board isn;t having much.

 

Actually the Gaming 5 is the more stable one, the VRMS aren't bad at all. The VRMS don't overheat at all.

 

The Gaming 7 was the one with the issues, the Gaming 5 is actually the better MB.

 

My system is rock solid.

 

I am also on air cooling with the NH D15 that blows air across the VRMs....

[Jurrunio]

17 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

 

Actually the Gaming 5 is the more stable one, the VRMS aren't bad at all. The VRMS don't overheat at all.

 

The Gaming 7 was the one with the issues, the Gaming 5 is actually the better MB.

 

My system is rock solid.

You only have 8 sets of 4C10N + 4C06N with no doublers (so it's just a big 4 phase, since the ISL95866 PWM regulator for controlling the VRM only goes up to 4 phase for 1 set of VRM) powering the CPU (except the iGPU in it) while the Gaming 7 has 8 sets of ISL99227 controlled by an ISL69138 (4 phase mode) with doublers (ISL6617) to make it closer to an 8 phase than a 4. The heatsinks are virtually the same (just as bad).

 

You don't even have to argue with me, all of these parts have public datasheets including efficiency for the mosfets and powerstage. There's also a site listing most boards' components

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/lga-1151-mainboard-vrm-liste-1175784.html#z370

[Ankerson]

19 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

You only have 8 sets of 4C10N + 4C06N with no doublers (so it's just a big 4 phase, since the ISL95866 PWM regulator for controlling the VRM only goes up to 4 phase for 1 set of VRM) powering the CPU (except the iGPU in it) while the Gaming 7 has 8 sets of ISL99227 controlled by an ISL69138 (4 phase mode) with doublers (ISL6617) to make it closer to an 8 phase than a 4. The heatsinks are virtually the same (just as bad).

 

You don't even have to argue with me, all of these parts have public datasheets including efficiency for the mosfets and powerstage. There's also a site listing most boards' components

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/lga-1151-mainboard-vrm-liste-1175784.html#z370

 

The only ones who have issues are those using AIO's or cheap entry level CPU Air Coolers and poor case cooling on both the 5 and 7, more on the 7 though.

 

AORUS adjusted all of this with the Z390 boards however as they are more AIO friendly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jurrunio]

11 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

 

The only ones who have issues are those using AIO's or cheap entry level CPU Air Coolers and poor case cooling on both the 5 and 7, more on the 7 though.

 

AORUS adjusted all of this with the Z390 boards however as they are more AIO friendly.

so suddenly VRM isn't that important is it?

[Ankerson]

7 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

so suddenly VRM isn't that important is it?

 

Oh it is, the site you linked to is different than the info I saw before.

 

And the detailed reviews that I saw of both boards along with the feedback over time.

 

However the AORUS Z390 Master is on my radar if something happens to my Gaming 5.

 

Been running this board for about a year now 24/7.

 

 

 

 

[webguy]

There is so much technical stuff here that I have no idea what you are talking about lol.  If you were going to buy a 2080 card and price was not an issue which of the 2080 cards that are out would you say is the best?  Is it the rog strix 2080?  Or which one if not that one?  I want to be able to play resource heavy games for long periods of time with no problems or heat issues like 12+ hours at a time or more if I want.

[MeatFeastMan]

7 minutes ago, webguy said:

There is so much technical stuff here that I have no idea what you are talking about lol.  If you were going to buy a 2080 card and price was not an issue which of the 2080 cards that are out would you say is the best?  Is it the rog strix 2080?  Or which one if not that one?  I want to be able to play resource heavy games for long periods of time with no problems or heat issues like 12+ hours at a time or more if I want.

Usually the 3 fan cards have lower temperatures. To keep it simple for you, this is the cheapest 2080 with a 3 fan design right now (In the US, let me know if you are a different country, just assuming you are US):

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qMKcCJ/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-2080-8gb-gaming-oc-video-card-gv-n2080gaming-oc-8gc

[webguy]

5 minutes ago, MeatFeastMan said:

Usually the 3 fan cards have lower temperatures. To keep it simple for you, this is the cheapest 2080 with a 3 fan design right now (In the US, let me know if you are a different country, just assuming you are US):

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qMKcCJ/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-2080-8gb-gaming-oc-video-card-gv-n2080gaming-oc-8gc

Thank you for the recommendation.  I will look at that one.  I do not need the cheapest.  If money was not a factor and you were buying a 2080 for best performance that can run for hours or all day with no heating problems which would you buy?

[MeatFeastMan]

5 minutes ago, webguy said:

Thank you for the recommendation.  I will look at that one.  I do not need the cheapest.  If money was not a factor and you were buying a 2080 for best performance that can run for hours or all day with no heating problems which would you buy?

If money was no issue, I'd get the strix as you mentioned:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/84hKHx/asus-geforce-rtx-2080-8gb-strix-gaming-oc-video-card-rog-strix-rtx2080-o8g-gaming

 

Also consider the radeon vii, that automatically comes with a 3 fan design, but more importantly comes with 16gb vram. That could really help you keep stable framerates 2 or 3 years down the line when games consistently go above the 8gb on the 2080. If you can find the radeon VII (Most tend to be out of stock due to limited production) then give that a shot instead provided you aren't interested in ray tracing. That's what I did. It actually has lower temps than the 2080 on average by about 5-10 degrees.

 

 

[Hans Power]

The cooler/fan design is actually very important for such an expensive card, imo - many cheaper GPU models use sleeve bearing fans and those are kinda crap and don't last that long - some only have a MTBF of 20.000hrs. And since GPU fans are much harder to come by and replace than case fans, it makes sense to pay a little extra to get a card with Hydro Dynamic or Ball Bearing fans. Especially the latter ones usually last an eternity. With sleeve bearing fans you can be unlucky and have rattling noises as soon as half a year after purchase and customer services often like to ignore fan noise and claim that the card works perfectly fine. I've been there personally. Ever since I base my purchase decision mainly on the bearing type of the fans.

[webguy]

15 hours ago, MeatFeastMan said:

If money was no issue, I'd get the strix as you mentioned:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/84hKHx/asus-geforce-rtx-2080-8gb-strix-gaming-oc-video-card-rog-strix-rtx2080-o8g-gaming

 

Also consider the radeon vii, that automatically comes with a 3 fan design, but more importantly comes with 16gb vram. That could really help you keep stable framerates 2 or 3 years down the line when games consistently go above the 8gb on the 2080. If you can find the radeon VII (Most tend to be out of stock due to limited production) then give that a shot instead provided you aren't interested in ray tracing. That's what I did. It actually has lower temps than the 2080 on average by about 5-10 degrees.

 

 

Thank you for the information.  I think I may go with the strix 2080.

[webguy]

14 hours ago, Hans Power said:

The cooler/fan design is actually very important for such an expensive card, imo - many cheaper GPU models use sleeve bearing fans and those are kinda crap and don't last that long - some only have a MTBF of 20.000hrs. And since GPU fans are much harder to come by and replace than case fans, it makes sense to pay a little extra to get a card with Hydro Dynamic or Ball Bearing fans. Especially the latter ones usually last an eternity. With sleeve bearing fans you can be unlucky and have rattling noises as soon as half a year after purchase and customer services often like to ignore fan noise and claim that the card works perfectly fine. I've been there personally. Ever since I base my purchase decision mainly on the bearing type of the fans.

Thank you for the information.  Then the rog strix 2080 likely uses the better fans?

[Hans Power]

1 hour ago, webguy said:

Thank you for the information.  Then the rog strix 2080 likely uses the better fans?

I wouldn't bet on it cause it's not advertised on the official product page. From what I know some high end Gigabyte cards use dual ball bearings (but not the one meatfeastman mentioned) and most MSI cards although I wouldn't recommend the Ventus model cause it doesn't have a 0RPM mode and the cooling capabilities are propably a bit too limited. I'd recommend any of MSIs Triple fan designs, tho. Otherwise EVGA cards might be worth concidering - they all use Hydro Dynamic bearings, no matter which model. Personally I had an MSI GTX 960 4G which used Hydro Dynamic Bearings and it's still working like day 1 - no noise increase whatsoever and I still have a bunch of 120mm dual ball bearing casefans from the early 2000s I was using for years and I checked if they still work just a few weeks ago and they still run like day one. Sleeve Bearing fans are usually a bit more quiet out of the box (that's why cards with them get good reviews in terms of noise levels) but they can degrade pretty rapidly.

 

Edit: I wouldn't recommend the high-end Gigabyte Aorus Cards either, tho - according to kidguru despite the ball bearing fans they get pretty hot and loud cause the fans have to spin very fast and they have a ton of sag cause they are too heavy. So, I'd stick to MSI or EVGA. And I'm really hesitant to say it, cause I don't want to look like a brand advocate but MSI seems to be the best choice overall right now when it comes to mid to high-end GPUs.