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Dissenter - The comment section of the internet - And a severe game-changer for free speech

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3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Didn't their last CEO have Mozilla donating to domestic leftist terrorist organization Anitfa?

 

It's more shocking that they didn't do it immediately.

That's massively incorrect - and, ironically, backwards to what actually happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich

Quote

Some employees of Mozilla Foundation (a separate organization from Mozilla Corporation) tweeted calls for his resignation, with reference to his donation of $1,000 to California Proposition 8, which called for the banning of same-sex marriage in California.

Emphasis mine. The dude is still a piece of shit, but he's not a left wing piece of shit.

 

You can dislike Antifa all you want - and there are many legitimate reasons to do so, but this guy is a right-wing extremist, not a left-wing extremist.

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1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Could be. Not aware of it.

Well, parts of Mozilla did support them when they were officially declared domestic terrorists.

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8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Well, parts of Mozilla did support them when they were officially declared domestic terrorists.

Individual non-exec employees? Sure perhaps. Just like some of them no doubt also support white supremacists. Any large organization has a wide variety of political beliefs among employees.

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2 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Could be. Not aware of it.

That's because he actually donated to groups supporting banning same-sex marriage, namely California's Proposition 8, as pointed out by @dalekphalm.

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5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Individual non-exec employees? Sure perhaps. Just like some of them no doubt also support white supremacists. Any large organization has a wide variety of political beliefs among employees.

Found the thread for it.

 

Mozilla, as an entity, has supported those fascists before.

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4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Found the thread for it.

 

Mozilla, as an entity, has supported those fascists before.

Sure, but that's not what you said before. You made a specific claim that the former CEO donated to Antifa. The Former CEO is a right-wing extremist.

 

EDIT: Also the money that Mozilla donated was not for Antifa - at least not specifically. They donated to "Riseup.net", which is a platform used by activists across the spectrum to do things like avoid mass surveillance, etc.

 

So, while Antifa might use the platform (that's may, since I haven't actually seen any evidence of this), many other organizations also use it.

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17 hours ago, Sampsy said:

This is literally just unmoderated comments, nothing more. We all know how well that works.

 

Except no it isn't, because not only that, this is only useful for those who can't chat using the normal functionality because they would get banned. So that will make up the vast majority of users.

 

Dissenter does not exist to protect free speech - that is just another transparent lie the far right uses as a shield to dismiss criticism. It exists to create an echo chamber of extremist conversation not allowed elsewhere - racism, death threats etc

And unfortunately, despite all the efforts by the left to exercise "inclusion", the result is fascist dictatorship. If free speech is only acceptable to you when people agree with you, then you're not in favor of free speech. You have to fight for your opponents right to free speech too.

As long as nothing illegal is being said or promoted, it shouldn't get removed from any platform. When you ban people from a platform in order to protect peoples feelings, you end up down a rabbit hole. There's a girl who had to be protected in her university against sauce on food. SAUCE ON FOOD. SERIOUSLY. I hate to be the guy that says "toughen up", but people like this leave me no choice.

 

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6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Sure, but that's not what you said before. You made a specific claim that the former CEO donated to Antifa. The Former CEO is a right-wing extremist.

Prop 8 passed in CA, thus you are slandering Mr. Eich.

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7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Sure, but that's not what you said before. You made a specific claim that the former CEO donated to Antifa. The Former CEO is a right-wing extremist.

I didn't claim jack shit. I asked a question.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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On 3/19/2019 at 5:42 PM, leadeater said:

Extremists, terrorists etc don't have a political affiliation, or religious, they are evil people exploiting whatever they can. Whatever gets them the outcome they want they will exploit, be it race supremacy, religious or social they don't actually believe in it, uphold the values of them so we shouldn't label any such person as 'far-right' or 'far-left'.

 

Once you start talking about political views of these people and label them as one side or the other you marginalize and devalue all people of that view point. There isn't anything specifically wrong about wanting low immigration and migration rates, protecting national traditions etc but neither is there anything wrong with accepting higher immigration and migration rates or integrating other cultures. These are just differences in opinions and values, neither of which is more right than the other. 

Terrorists and extremists definitely do have political affiliations, the distinction is that an extremist is not representative of a given affiliation.

 

I definitely don't think labeling an extremist as a certain member of a group intrinsically implies you attach their characteristics to all other members of the group. 

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2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I didn't claim jack shit. I asked a question.

See my edit above. You doubled down with that other news thread - which as far as I can tell, has no actual source that confirms Antifa even uses Riseup.net.

 

Fair enough, you asked a question. The answer is no.

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11 hours ago, Sampsy said:

Except no it isn't, because not only that, this is only useful for those who can't chat using the normal functionality because they would get banned. So that will make up the vast majority of users.

So you're saying you are against talking to people you disagree with and trying to understand them and maybe convince them?

Wich essentially maeans you are pro violent solutions because when you can't talk to other people about something, violence is the only solution. 

Especially not allowing a supressed group to not be allowed to speak what they think is really dangerous and can only go wrong.

Because you isolate them from society, whatever they believe will be strenthend and pushed to the extreme!!

 

If someone slightly dislikes something and get banned for it, do you really think that he will like it after the ban?!

 

Ähm, no, absolutely not!
If you ban them for that, they now really do not like the thing they got banned for. And now you push them out of the "normal space", to the real fringe space, where the real Nazis are...

 

Buttom Line:
YOUR way makes Nazis!

You know how you destroy them? By talking to them in a civilized maner. That is what the founding fathers knew, that to have a country, you have to be able to speak what you think without fear of prosecution.

 

11 hours ago, Sampsy said:

Dissenter does not exist to protect free speech - that is just another transparent lie the far right uses as a shield to dismiss criticism.

How is a Comment Function for a website that doesn't have a Comment Function, that's totally in the Hands of the Users "Alt-Right"??

That makes no sense. On the Contary, that is more "Alt-LEFT", because the Left is all about the People.

 

And now, giving power to the people is considered "alt-right"?! How did THAT happen?!

 

11 hours ago, Sampsy said:

It exists to create an echo chamber of extremist conversation not allowed elsewhere - racism, death threats etc

no, YOU create an Echo chamber with claiming its "Alt-Right" and ousting people from the "normie World", with banning them from the "Normie Spaces".


And that's not only on one way, it goes in both ways!

You believe you are in the Majority because everyone who disagrees is already banned. And you aren't able to talk with someone who thinks a bit different and disagrees with you on your views.

 

And with this thing being called "alt right", you also keep the normies from the Plattform, who could battle "the alt right" to bring them closer to the Center.

 

You know the story of the Black guy that singlehandedly destroyed a KKK Arm?? You know how he did it? By talking to it!

HE was a hero!

And he could only do that because he talked to people who hated him!

And he won. Because he talked to them.

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36 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Prop 8 passed in CA, thus you are slandering Mr. Eich.

How?

 

What exactly did I say that's incorrect? It's a matter of public record that he donated money to Prop 8. It's a matter of public record that Prop 8 opposes same-sex marriage. It's my opinion that anyone who opposes same-sex marriage is an extremist (typically a right wing extremist).

 

EDIT: Prop 8 was ruled unconstitutional anyway:

Quote

Proposition 8 was ultimately ruled unconstitutional by a federal court (on different grounds) in 2010, although the court decision did not go into effect until June 26, 2013, following the conclusion of proponents' appeals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8

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I don't know.  It's up to the platform to decide what they feel is acceptable for their community standards.  They own the server space.  We can't tell the mods here how to do their jobs.  Free speech only applies to the government intervening.

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3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

How?

 

What exactly did I say that's incorrect? It's a matter of public record that he donated money to Prop 8. It's a matter of public record that Prop 8 opposes same-sex marriage. It's my opinion that anyone who opposes same-sex marriage is an extremist (typically a right wing extremist).

You're using dogwhistle language to attempt to out-group Mr. Eich. Seeing as he was supporting the side of a ballot measure that won popular support is the progressive State of California, his support for Prop 8 was neither "right wing" nor "extremist". Your position, however, is extremist. It's also Islamophobic and Anti-Christian, generally speaking. Words have meaning and implications.

 

Seeing as you claim to be Canadian and the sanction that can come upon you for discriminatory, inflammatory or slanderous speech, I'll erase my posts if you remove the statements. 

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15 minutes ago, Majinhoju said:

I don't know.  It's up to the platform to decide what they feel is acceptable for their community standards.  They own the server space.  We can't tell the mods here how to do their jobs.  Free speech only applies to the government intervening.

No, its not.

There are laws.

There already is precedent for something similar happening.

You remember the Mall Runling??

This one?

https://www.nreionline.com/mag/freedom-speech-mall

 

So its only a question of time until they get a ruling that might cost them dearly...

Especially since for example Twitter is full of hateful content!

That, if you are honest, is totally racist and also sometimes genocidal comments....

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Social media isn't public property or a public gathering space in that sense.  It's easily accessible but you're still on someone else's server space.  By that logic the mods here should just sign off and let us have a free for all for the sake of free speech.

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1 hour ago, Nowak said:

That's because he actually donated to groups supporting banning same-sex marriage, namely California's Proposition 8, as pointed out by @dalekphalm.

Oh, that shit. Typical leftist nonsense. What, you don't align with my way of thinking? Well, tough luck, lets fuck up your life. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. These people are pretty much insane at this point.

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12 hours ago, Sampsy said:

This is literally just unmoderated comments, nothing more. We all know how well that works.

 

Except no it isn't, because not only that, this is only useful for those who can't chat using the normal functionality because they would get banned. So that will make up the vast majority of users.

 

Dissenter does not exist to protect free speech - that is just another transparent lie the far right uses as a shield to dismiss criticism. It exists to create an echo chamber of extremist conversation not allowed elsewhere - racism, death threats etc

The fact it's making people so angry you can say whatever you want makes it awesome

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27 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

You're using dogwhistle language to attempt to out-group Mr. Eich.

I should hope the general population of the United States has grown to the point where they support same-sex marriage, so, your opinion that I'm using dog-whistle politics is just that. Your opinion.

 

Quote

Seeing as he was supporting the side of a ballot measure that won popular support is the progressive State of California, his support for Prop 8 was neither "right wing" nor "extremist". Your position, however, is extremist. It's also Islamophobic and Anti-Christian, generally speaking. Words have meaning and implications.

Most North American christians, I would suggest, no longer support a ban on same-sex marriage. In Canada, at least. The US? Well, that's another story.

 

So yes, supporting a ban on same sex marriage is right wing extremism in my opinion.

Quote

Seeing as you claim to be Canadian and the sanction that can come upon you for discriminatory, inflammatory or slanderous speech, I'll erase my posts if you remove the statements. 

"Claim to be" Canadian? Come again? Do I need to show you my birth certificate or something?

 

Bahaha - in Canadian law I'm 100% supported. Same sex marriage is a constitutional right in Canada. So no, I will not remove my post. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the mod team.

 

Furthermore my right to Free Speech in Canada guarantees me the right to say that I think Mr. Eich is a right-wing extremist for supporting a ban on same-sex marriage.

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7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Oh, that shit. Typical leftist nonsense. What, you don't align with my way of thinking? Well, tough luck, lets fuck up your life. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. These people are pretty much insane at this point.

People who support same sex marriage are insane? Not sure if that's your point, but could you please clarify?

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You guys do realize this is likely to get the thread locked, right?

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

So yes, supporting a ban on same sex marriage is right wing extremism in my opinion.

Claiming what is a standard belief in multiple cultures and religions (not just Christianity, not just the US) to be "extremism", is itself an extremist position.  That's all I'll say on that.

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3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

You guys do realize this is likely to get the thread locked, right?

Probably. But we'll see. If it needs to be locked, it will. Otherwise, it won't.

3 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Claiming what is a standard belief in multiple cultures and religions (not just Christianity, not just the US) to be "extremism", is itself an extremist position.  That's all I'll say on that.

I don't claim to know or state what is normal outside of North America. I do understand that there are definitely still some regressive cultures in certain parts of the world that still hold very archaic views about same sex marriage (for example, Brunei, that just legalized stoning people to death for being gay).

 

However, sorry if I disagree with you (or anyone else here), but I think it's ethically wrong to oppose same sex marriage. Other people are free to disagree with my opinion.

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9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

People who support same sex marriage are insane? Not sure if that's your point, but could you please clarify?

No, the people who demand fucking up of someone's life just because they don't absolutely support their idea. So what if he was donating to people who oppose same sex marriage. You don't need to fuck his life for it specifically. This isn't islamic society where they achieve goals by straight up murdering people. The way our western society is going, no amount of donations will change the general acceptance of LGBT people. So, why is there need to fuck up someone's life because their opinions don't align with LGBT people? There always were and always will be opposing views on everything. The last thing we need is everyone fucking up everyone's lives for it. Which is exactly what everyone seems to be doing. On the left and right. And I'm in the middle rolling with my eyes...

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1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

I should hope the general population of the United States has grown to the point where they support same-sex marriage, so, your opinion that I'm using dog-whistle politics is just that. Your opinion.

 

Most North American christians, I would suggest, no longer support a ban on same-sex marriage. In Canada, at least. The US? Well, that's another story.

 

So yes, supporting a ban on same sex marriage is right wing extremism in my opinion.

"Claim to be" Canadian? Come again? Do I need to show you my birth certificate or something?

 

 

Running away from the point is normally a sign you've conceded it. You're also now calling it "my opinion" rather than previously presenting it as a statement of fact.  "The Former CEO is a right-wing extremist." is a pretty blanket statement associating Mr. Eich, co-founder of Mozilla, inventor of Javascript and developer of Brave (the browser) with actual extremist movements considered to be on rightwing. To much of the world, you're implying that Mr. Eich is a Nazi, which is slander.

Quote

"Claim to be" Canadian? Come again? Do I need to show you my birth certificate or something?

 

Bahaha - in Canadian law I'm 100% supported. Same sex marriage is a constitutional right in Canada. So no, I will not remove my post. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the mod team.

Yes, "claim to be". 

 

856112226_pineappleunderthesea.jpg.532c7bfbed0ef618dd130b6657fc4943.jpg

 

Without ever having seen your identification, I cannot say whether you're Canadian, American, Thai or you live in a pineapple under the sea. Being Canadian on a Canadian forum subjects you to local law quite directly. While I doubt Mr. Eich would pursue litigation against you with either the Crown Counsel, the Human Rights Commission or as a civil matter, words have meanings & implications. I repeat my offer.

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