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Ruckus42

Dissenter - The comment section of the internet - And a severe game-changer for free speech

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Better mod response 

 

1 minute ago, imreloadin said:

Yep that is what it's a parody of xD

Oh I know XD 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That's not how it works, from what I can see. You're commenting over on Dissenter on their platform, no one here would see it and likely wouldn't care either. I don't care about what people say on twitter or facebook as I don't use either, if I did I wouldn't care either unless the comments were directed to me about me then I exercise my right of reply.

 

People on the internet can rant about whatever they like it doesn't effect me, not unless they come to my house and yell at me directly. That's the trick to the internet, you can actually ignore people. I do however believe that moderation is required and situations of law breaking, incites to violence etc be dealt with as necessary, I also have zero time for the 'slippery slope' argument. Because again if you're not happy with how moderation is being done, you can move on.

 

Most people have reasonable common sense, can identify actual problematic issues and sort out situations with proper care. There just needs to be less bending over to the loud minority and trusting your own judgement. 

 

Also this isn't really tech news so it's likely going to be moved to general discussion. I would move it myself but I wanted to comment on this topic.

I agree with everything you said except 1 thing: This is certainly tech news.

 

You're right, nobody HAS to looks at comments anywhere. But they do. A lot. If a content creator gets banned from a platform due to political views (something happening more and more these days), they still have a voice. Who's listening is a valid critique.

 

Bending to the loud minority happens far too often. It's refreshing to see something come up that refuses to.

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17 minutes ago, Ruckus42 said:

This is certainly tech news.

You'll have to make the topic post comply with the tech news section guidelines first before it can be considered to stay there. However this isn't exactly a new issue, the Dissenter platform is new enough (17 days since launch), this discussion isn't technology focused i.e. how the platforms works, but rather about the social issue of why it was created.

 

Basically without a news source about the platform, that is a news section requirement, and a focus on technology it doesn't fit the tech news section. It might be an important topic that people want to discuss but that alone doesn't qualify it for the tech news section.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, leadeater said:

You'll have to make the topic post comply with the tech news section guidelines first before it can be considered to stay there. However this isn't exactly a new issue, the Dissenter platform is new enough (17 days since launch), this discussion isn't technology focused i.e. how the platforms works, but rather about the social issue of why it was created.

 

Basically without a news source about the platform that is a news section requirement and a focus on technology it doesn't fit the tech new section. It might be an important topic that people want to discuss but that alone doesn't qualify it for the tech news section.

Ah, fair enough. I figured it was quite similar to the kind of tech news they tend to discuss on WAN show, but I guess they even joke about how real tech news rarely ever happens!

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3 minutes ago, Arika S said:

and that's called tumblr

It was called the internet,   but the far right make it unbearable and the far left want to shut it down.  🙄


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5 hours ago, Ruckus42 said:

gets banned from a platform due to political views

With "political views" being double-speak for "racism and/or sexism", ergo nothing worthwhile was lost.


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27 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It was called the internet,   but the far right make it unbearable and the far left want to shut it down.  🙄

both extremes used to keep to their own, tumblr for the far left, 4chan for the far right, but now they have all blended together onto mainstream platforms and are breaking all the pretty things ☹️

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@mr moose I don't usually get emotional, but I'd rather talk to an person (face-to-face) in the rare occasion that it does occur. The internet does not usually lend itself to such affairs well, from what I've seen. Though I could be wrong...

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10 hours ago, Ruckus42 said:

I want to know, have any of you heard of Dissenter before now? Have you installed it? There are side chats happening on a lot of YouTube videos, twitter feeds, etc. For example, in the video I linked in the OP. I can even comment on this page. And LTT can't stop it. I could say ANYTHING. But I won't because I'm nice like that.

I installed it and used it.  Seems like an interesting idea and very relevant especially now in days.  In all fairness the plugin actually works very seamlessly.  Its pretty much available on every desktop browser at the moment.


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4 hours ago, Arika S said:

both extremes used to keep to their own, tumblr for the far left, 4chan for the far right, but now they have all blended together onto mainstream platforms and are breaking all the pretty things ☹️

Don't confuse /pol/ for all of 4chan.


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I kinda wish people would stop saying free speech is a right...  It's not and in most countries, there is no free speech.  The UK, for one, does not allow free speech, that's why we have hate crimes including hate speech and that's fine by me.

 

Sure, there's the whole 'words are only that and they can't hurt you', but at the same time words can have a huge effect on how 'other' people may act.

 

If you say something that incites prejudiced hatred, violence or something else along those lines, then yes, you 'should' be able to be held accountable, banned from sites and the like.

 

People use freedom of speech as a mask online to hide acts that in person would be a criminal act.  If something would be a crime in the real world, then I'd argue it should be a crime in the digital world also.


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A truly great idea. Simple, yet extremely effective. The only issue is that it still relies on underlying internet infrastructure that is in the hands of the tech companies who are run by progressives. So I suspect if it ever gets popular they get thrown off whatever hosting support they had, whatever DDOS protection they have, mass DDOS'd, and blacklisted.

2 minutes ago, Gareque said:

I kinda wish people would stop saying free speech is a right...  It's not and in most countries, there is no free speech.  The UK, for one, does not allow free speech, that's why we have hate crimes including hate speech and that's fine by me.

 

Sure, there's the whole 'words are only that and they can't hurt you', but at the same time words can have a huge effect on how 'other' people may act.

 

If you say something that incites prejudiced hatred, violence or something else along those lines, then yes, you 'should' be able to be held accountable, banned from sites and the like.

 

People use freedom of speech as a mask online to hide acts that in person would be a criminal act.  If something would be a crime in the real world, then I'd argue it should be a crime in the digital world also.

Most countries sucking does not mean the internet has to suck. You do have a right to free speech, its a human right, its a god given right, you were born with it, and they have stolen it from you, and now tricked you into thinking it was good for you. Hate speech laws have never reduced hate, they have only ever reduced speech.

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I can't be the only one that thinking this going to be a hot bed for intel groups to keep an eye on. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, WereCatf said:

With "political views" being double-speak for "racism and/or sexism", ergo nothing worthwhile was lost.

Ah, but that's not true much of the time. Some people are being banned for nothing of the sort. Just simple disagreements. The left likes to loudly yell "racism and sexism" when they get challenged rather than try to have productive conversations.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Gareque said:

If you say something that incites prejudiced hatred, violence or something else along those lines, then yes, you 'should' be able to be held accountable, banned from sites and the like.

Diversity of opinion is very important. And people are SO easily offended these days, that you could be saying something as simple as "sperm fertilizes egg" and the gender neutral camp loses their minds. So unfortunately, we now have to push the right to offend, not because we want to be jerks, but simply to have conversations about things that exist in reality.

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1 hour ago, Ruckus42 said:

Ah, but that's not true much of the time. Some people are being banned for nothing of the sort. Just simple disagreements. The left likes to loudly yell "racism and sexism" when they get challenged rather than try to have productive conversations.

Well, I ain't ever seen anyone get banned just like that. Then again, I don't frequent any politi-cesspits.


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5 hours ago, Ruckus42 said:

Diversity of opinion is very important. And people are SO easily offended these days, that you could be saying something as simple as "sperm fertilizes egg" and the gender neutral camp loses their minds. So unfortunately, we now have to push the right to offend, not because we want to be jerks, but simply to have conversations about things that exist in reality.

There is an enormous difference between causing offence and saying something that would otherwise be a crime or hate speak.

 

Someone can tell me whatever the hell they like, I don't get offended easily.  But, on the other hand, if they tell me that they are going to track down my IP and kill my son, that's not causing offence, that's a threat.  It's 'still' just words however, so are you saying that kind of thing should be acceptable?

 

And that's where my point comes in to it.  Being behind a keyboard should 'not' mean that you are free of consequence for your actions.  Look at the terrorist groups recruiting people through social media.  Should that be allowed unfettered?

 

Whilst all these things are opposed in civilised society, to allow them would be true freedom of speech.  Which would you prefer?  A world that allows threats against your loved ones in a variety of ways? Or one where such actions have legal ramifications? Because if someone stopped me in the middle of the street and threatened me, you'd be damn sure there are consequences, why should online be any different?

 

Same goes with racism and any other form of prejudism.


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11 minutes ago, Gareque said:

Being behind a keyboard should 'not' mean that you are free of consequence for your actions.

And that is the big thing here, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence, ever. That's never been a thing and it's pretty much what most people arguing about freedom of speech are actually talking about or wanting whether they know it or not. Neither does freedom of speech laws apply to anything other than that personal freedom towards the government. There are complications around that with other laws and precedents but the point still stands, freedom of speech has nothing to do with making comments online in private or public and obviously you are free to do so but you have to live with any consequences from that.

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Disagreeing with a (usually stupid) opinion is hating and automatically makes you "far-right" for these SJW snowflakes, well.


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8 hours ago, leadeater said:

And that is the big thing here, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence, ever.

Whilst I get what you are saying, that's the thing though.  Actual, true freedom of speech would include freedom from consequence regardless of what you said.  In a world where true free speech is allowed, a person could literally say anything they wanted without comeuppance.  Otherwise, you aren't free to say it.

 

That's what I disagree with on the whole debate.  Whilst the majority may always be of a sane mind on the whole thing, there will always be those who take things too far and that's where some form of censorship and consequence comes in.  But there are also people who believe that the internet is meant to be a platform where you can do/say what you please without any consequence.  Even the inventor of the internet has come forward and said it's become a beast he never intended it to be because of things happening online, government or civilian alike.


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1 hour ago, Gareque said:

Otherwise, you aren't free to say it.

Well no I don't agree, being free to say what you like isn't the same as not having consequence from it. As long as you're not stopped from making remarks you are free to do it, in the knowledge that you are accountable for what you say. If you want to self moderate what you say because you know there are consequences from it then that is a personal choice, just the same as going ahead and saying it anyway.

 

You can be a racist and do something like try and block someone from entering a building, following them to their room berating them all the way. You can, she did, lose her job because of that. If you know the example I'm talking about then you know that person freely did those actions and bore the consequences from it. At what point was this person stopped? What prevents her from doing it again? Nothing, other than personal choice and knowledge of consequence from past actions, still completely free to do it again.

 

Edit:

And to be clear to what I mean you are free unless there is a law that prevents it and doing so would be a crime punishable by the state, not by public or private opinion.

 

I also personally have no problem with hate speech laws, that exists here but so does the right to Freedom of Expression in our Bill of Rights. Anyone that says only the US has their rights to freedom of speech protected just isn't correct. There are limits to what you can say in the US, just like many other countries, the specifics of that differs country by country but it personally erks me when people say US is the only place with the right to free speech because they typically never bother to actually check if that is true and just say it.

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