An open letter to Linus: We at /r/linux_gaming are happy to help

[Traches]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Oh please,  I never made claims you were saying anything about getting people to move to linux,  but from your response it's clear you are.  I only said you shouldn't come into a forum and start arguing over it.  I have bolded the unnecessary claims that in no way address anything I said, yet seem to indicate you are in fact here to argue about how good Linux is. 

 

I've got some news for you, I and many others really don't care, what most people are trying to tell you, if you stopped to read what they said rather than assume they are just wrong, is that they are fed up with the general Linux community telling them a million different things about Linux and never being able to see any realization of those things.  If you really want to promote linux as being better then that's were you need to start,  you need to address those contradictions first.

If I came across as argumentative, judgemental, hostile, or condescending I am really sorry, that was not my intent.

 

Your tone here is super hostile, and that honestly hurts my feelings a bit. The simple fact that we're on this forum says we share a common interest, and at the end of the day we're both nerds who could probably sit down with a beer and have an enjoyable conversation. It's an operating system, it's not something to get in fights over.

 

You are right that I want people to switch to Linux, so long as it meets their needs. I think the privacy and security improvements are in their best interest, and I think growing the community is in everyone's best interest.

 

My entire case is that Linux is better than you give it credit for, and windows is worse than you give it credit for. That doesn't necessarily mean windows isn't your best option, it's just not the only option for gaming anymore.

[leadeater]

53 minutes ago, aaronfranke said:

Using the package manager ensures that software is only downloaded from a trusted source, verified by signing the package. When you add a PPA/repo you are indeed adding a new trusted source, and there is obviously some risk there, since you could add one with malware in it.

Going to Nvidia's website is trusted by the secure signed certificate by a trusted public CA, yea anyone can create a website and get a signed public certificate for the site so it's not that big of a trust guarantee.

 

Further to that both the downloaded binaries and the drivers are signed by Nvidia so you can trust that what you have is from Nvidia and only from Nvidia, if you so care to actually check the signing. If you don't check the default Windows behavior is to only install signed drivers and you can't just get any old drivers correctly signed, Microsoft has requirements around that.

 

Linux repos are great and an easy way to acquire and distribute software but it's not any more trusted than other distribution methods also digitally signing the packages and binaries. You can add malicious sources in to your Linux repo sources, easily done if you don't know what you're doing.

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Traches said:

Your tone here is super hostile, and that honestly hurts my feelings a bit.

sorry.

5 hours ago, Traches said:

My entire case is that Linux is better than you give it credit for, and windows is worse than you give it credit for. That doesn't necessarily mean windows isn't your best option, it's just not the only option for gaming anymore.

Actually I use Linux a fair bit.  When I don't specifically  need windows I use Linux (and it was my mainstay for about 3 years),   I am not actually making any claims about it.  What I am saying though is that when you get a few new members on a forum making posts and arguing over the validity and superiority of Linux (which is what happened in this thread) it does two things:

 

1. Reminds everyone of the annoying things the linux community has told us (e.g it's user fault hardware isn't supported).  and

2. It only sounds like 5 year olds arguing over who's dad has the best job.   Most of us will use the best OS for the task at hand, No one here is actually opposed to linux on an emotional level, in fact most of this forum has an emotional attachment to hating on MS more than anything.  But at the end of the day, if Linux can't do a task and silly people keep telling them that its their ignorance that is our ignorance that is the problem, then you should be able to understand why we don't always take kindly to people arguing about it.

[Stefan Payne]

19 hours ago, Traches said:

Subjective opinion I guess; I got tired of it after many years of using it. Also I don't like being spied on, and I don't like the fact that windows answers to Microsoft first, and the user second. That's a deep, fundamental, unfixable problem. Linux's problems are fixable.

No, not Subjective for the Desktop user at all!
There are only two viable options:

a) Windows

b) MacOS X

 

Because:
You can't install drivers on Linux (don't need that on OSX obviously ans no DIY stuff).

You can't "just download and install" a software, you can on OSX and Windows

If you have Trouble with "Linux", your friend around the corner who is inside the Linux stuff deep down might not be able to help you because he works with Red Hat or SuSe, you use Ubuntu.

 

And could you stop the "pointing fingers" Stuff?? Like the "I don't like beeing spied on" stuff?
There is also a ton of that on the Linux side. Like the Amazon stuff in Ubuntu or other "crash reports"...

Can't we have a productive discussion without pointing fingers at the other??

19 hours ago, Traches said:

Nobody says Linux is perfect. Literally all of us know that there are huge problems with Linux, because we've dealt with them personally. Look at how popular Brian Lunduke's "Linux Sucks" videos are-- we laugh because we can relate. We're saying they're worth it, because Linux brings some huge advantages that you don't find on proprietary operating systems.

Then stop overselling it and work on improving the stuff.

 

Here a good video about the Problems that "Linux" has:

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7547-libusb_maintainer_fail

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

The same is true for gaming-- if you're building a dedicated gaming rig, and your only concern is gaming performance and convenience, you'd be better served by Windows.

The same is true for a power "Desktop" User that uses the UI/desktop a ton as there is a whole lot of Quality of life stuff on Windows, an absolute ton of useful shortcuts and also because everything is from one source, everything works.

And there are APIs to make other things (like Games) work.

 

And there is no breaking in API compatibility without any reason.

Yes, there are some older stuff that don't work on more modern Windows, most of that from the Windows 9x era...

19 hours ago, Traches said:

My point is that there's more to the story than convenience. 

Why should any normal user care about that?
They use what works.

Linux does not work for many people.

Windows does.

OSX is a viable alternative, if freely available.

19 hours ago, Traches said:

They demonstrate that Microsoft is willing to actively and deliberately harm its users when it benefits them.

Its not like its any different on the Linux side either...

Where some Software (was it SSL??) just breaks the API compatibility, because they get a minor version bump.

The difference is: YOu can hold M$ accountable with not giving them any money.

How do you hold the Gnome3 Developers for the MacOSX-Style UI Accountable?
You don't...

There is no legal way to hold them accountable at all!

19 hours ago, Traches said:

And that's only one example; who knows what information it sends back to the mothership?

You mean like the Amazon Stuff on Ubuntu??

And who knows if there isn't something like that in Linux.

 

Its not like Linux is sooo much better in that regard...

19 hours ago, Traches said:

With forced automatic updates, even if it respects your privacy now, there's nothing to say that can't change any day. You, and the community at large, has no way to review new changes to ensure they are in your best interest.

You know that Automatic, forced updates have its place and make sense?
You know that Automatic, forced updates is something endorsed by Ron and Frank?? 
You know, Security Nightmares??

 

How many Windows 7 and 8 Systems you've seen where some wannabe experts disabled Updates and haven't updated their system in years??

Automatic updates is also something that you'll find in "Linux" more and more as well...

 

Bashing that is just totally wrong as there is a more than valid reason for that...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

The fundamental difference between a proprietary operating system and an open source one is control. When you run Linux, you are 100%, completely in control of absolutely every aspect of your system. Should you choose to, you can allow or deny absolutely every single thing that your computer does, every entity it communicates with, and every bit of information it sends to them. Even if you don't care to learn those things, others in the community do and you can benefit from their efforts. That is simply not true of Windows, and no amount of yelling changes that.

....

Obviously that had to be mentioned...

You know that Microsoft lets you take a look at their Source code if you are important enough? (Like Gouvernment Institutions)

 

Besides that:
Who of the Endusers really care about it?!

 

And on the other hand, it also is more points of destruction, where you can destroy your OS from doing what you want...

 

There is always two sides to the story...

19 hours ago, Traches said:

The only reasonable solution to this problem is free and open source software.

 We see how well that works with how widely Linux is used in the Desktop

And how awesome the Changes for the Gnome 3 UI were...
Oh wait, that lead to TWO new, big Desktop Enviroments. Before there were two big ones and some smaller/light weight ones. Now there are 4 big ones...

 

And how much stalemate situations there is right now. You know that there is a war in the Linux Community about utter nonsense that does nothing to improve the Software but wastes everybodys time going on?

With commercial Software, you can just fire the people that are only causing trouble and don't do anything useful.

Replacing words in the Code Comments is a waste of time...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

If nobody can read the source code, nobody knows what it does. There shouldn't be black box programs spying on people from their own devices, it's immoral and harmful.

As mentioned above, if you are in the right position, you can actually look at the M$ Source Code.

And there are already some Windows Programms Open Sourced - for example the Calculator.

Wanna take a look at it?
 

Here you go:
https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator

 

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

Linux is not a single, unified product delivered by a single organization. It's many groups of people building parts-- this has the benefit of not answering to anyone, and giving the end user an outstanding array of options to choose from in every aspect of their system, but it also complicates support and leads to fragmentation. There's no single piece of software you are forced to use; if you don't like something, literally anything, you can change it. That's not true on windows. Fragmentation sucks in some ways, but in other ways it's truly amazing.

That is the biggest Problem, not an advantage...

Just look at what happened with Gnome 2->3.

Now we have 4 competing, big Desktop Enviroments, before it was two. That fragmentation is not good as the Developers are limited and those developers are now spread over 4 Projects.

 

Again, doesn't matter for Server stuff, where a skilled admin can make the OS the way he needs it for the job and there aren't many things to install after its setup anyway.

 

And because of that, you don't pay for licenses, you pay people for their knowledge and training.

19 hours ago, Traches said:

Yeah, unnecessary forking is an issue. But having many different choices can be a good thing.

In one product yes, in 200 products that do the same and also reduce the quality of each product because of the fragmentation of developers, no.

 

Having the Option of using an OSX UI is nice, if all I need to do is just apply a theme.

But its not nice if I have to install another Desktop Enviroment...

 

Especially if the main ones are also lacking...

19 hours ago, Traches said:

•  It's getting better. It's far from perfect, some things blow windows out of the water, others are a huge pain in the ass, but overall it's miles better than it was even a few  years ago.

If I got a penny every time I'd heard that from the Linux side, I'd be richer than Bezos...

And no, I don't feel like its getting better at all.

On the contrary! It looks like the Gap between "Linux" and Windows widens in recent years.

Because Windows 8 and 10 has added a ton of new (awesome) features...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

• You can download things from a browser just fine on Linux. You don't lose that capability, you just get a better option: Download from a repository where an independent 3rd party has reviewed and signed off on the software as not being malware.

You know that there are things like UAC since Vista and Signing of programms?
WIndows actually warns you if it doesn't know the Developer of downloaded Programms...

 

And how do I use PCSX2 again?

When the PPA is offline...

 

Under OSX you click on the downloaded Programm and move the programm to application and call it a day. 

Under Windows you use the .EXE and follow the instructions and call it a day.

 

How was it again under Linux??
 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

• The terminal really isn't that bad. It's just different from what you're used to. If you can build a PC, you can learn a little bash.

How do you know what I'm used to? Do you know me??
Why you assume that I'm not used to Command Line?

 

You know what the "LH" command is (or rather was) for?
Do you know EMM386.exe?
Do you know HIMEM.SYS??

 

Its best not to assume anything about the other person...

Especially if they mentioned something about SuSe 6.4 somewhere...

 

You can look that up on Wikipedia when that was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux

 

The Install CDs I think I still have somewhere...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

I'm not here to say everyone and their mother should ditch Windows, I'm here to say that Linux is a viable option for many use cases

...and those interested in that will look it up, download and install it, try it for a bit and if they like it, they use it, if they don't they don't and forget about it.

But talking people into it and convincing them that its awesome, when its not, leads only to frustration.

 

And no, I'm not a Windows user. I didn't grow up with Windows!

I also used OS/2 Warp 4 and I really liked it (for a while, for obvious reasons I stopped using it)...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

rises to the dizzying heights of "better than windows" in some cases (programming mostly), and those use cases are expanding as time goes on.

Yeah, right...
That's the same stuff the Linux guys throw around every time. Even 15 Years ago I read that.

And what did really change? Windows got better and improved a lot with Vista...

Windows added new features.

 

In the Linux Mint IIRC 18.1 or 18.3 Developer Blog they wrote that (IIRC Mate) can now attach the Task bar to the left and right side of the screen.

RLY?! Even Windows 95 could do that!

Left, right, top, buttom, everything is possible. And with the right IE4 Version you can even get the small Application bar you know and love.

And that is the state where most Linux Desktops are at.

 

They didn't even implement the Windows 7 Taskbar, where the Application Area and the Taskbar is the same!

Mate doesn't do that, Cinnamon doesn't and also KDE doesn't do that. 

Windows 7 was released 10 Years ago and is to be out of Service soon!

 

And the Taskbar is still not implemented.

As are other awesome WIndows Features - like the Device Manager...

 

19 hours ago, Traches said:

Also, personally I don't like being surveilled by my own computer.

Yeah, obviously you have to point fingers and use the Surveilance thing...

Are you perhaps using an Android Phone?
Or a Facebook, Twitter User?? 

Use google from time to time??

 

You know wich Phone OS does the least surveilance? Microsoft Windows Phone (wich was pretty neat with

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

@Stefan Payne can you just stop? Linux is a perfectly viable desktop OS depending on your use. 

[Stefan Payne]

28 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

Linux is a perfectly viable desktop OS depending on your use. 

...and depending on the use you can also do other stuff like use not supported Windows Versions, FreeDOS...

Windows is the BETTER Desktop OS; that is the Point. And "Linux" is way behind in usability for an Enduser...

 

Installation of stuff is needlessly complicated, if the PPA is down.

GPU Driver has to be compiled against the Kernel and other stuff...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Windows is the BETTER Desktop OS; that is the Point. And "Linux" is way behind in usability for an Enduser...

i don't think that's true. 

[razdiel]

23 hours ago, Helly said:

I'm not arguing the terminal should die and be gone....

I'm trying to say linux relies to much on the terminal. Every single tutorial/guide i have ever seen of linux starts with the line: "Open up a terminal". It's just the wrong approach to get the normal PC ppl to use linux.

It's amazing to see linux pretty much has an app for everything, but they all need to be installed through a command. If it even works at least 80% of the time (in my experience at least) there is either no GUI at all or it just doesn't work and the readme explains everything with commands in a terminal.

Maybe (or probably) it's just my experience thats been terrible but hopefully you get my point here...

This used to be the case but some distros like Arch really take that need away i have been using Antergos for 6 months now and i barely had the need to use terminal at all

[Mo5]

How has a thread about "we are happy to help" turned into such a shitstorm... But I guess such a topic will never have a civilized debate. 

[razdiel]

1 hour ago, Mo5 said:

How has a thread about "we are happy to help" turned into such a shitstorm... But I guess such a topic will never have a civilized debate. 

Its like IPhone VS Android it always happens

[razdiel]

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

...and depending on the use you can also do other stuff like use not supported Windows Versions, FreeDOS...

Windows is the BETTER Desktop OS; that is the Point. And "Linux" is way behind in usability for an Enduser...

 

Installation of stuff is needlessly complicated, if the PPA is down.

GPU Driver has to be compiled against the Kernel and other stuff...

It looks like you barely have any experience with linux judging from your posts, it seems that you just gave ubuntu for a spin found multiple things to complain and never turned back.

[KarathKasun]

4 minutes ago, razdiel said:

It looks like you barely have any experience with linux judging from your posts, it seems that you just gave ubuntu for a spin found multiple things to complain and never turned back.

No, I agree and have used Linux in one form or another since RHL 5.0.

 

As a desktop OS Linux is pretty much crap.  If all you ever do is use FF/Chrome and GIMP, sure it works.  But if you have a reason to do anything more complex, the GUI mostly falls apart.

[Stefan Payne]

53 minutes ago, Mo5 said:

But I guess such a topic will never have a civilized debate. 

Sadly no.

It would be a start if all sides would stop pointing fingers and work hard to make the thing they're propagatin g better?

 

I mean we all know the Problems Windows has because we use it every day...

We do not need to be reminded of it...

 

If you're mean you say that you have to mention "Spying" and "Closed Source" things because there is nothing else...

 

And the Insults from the Linux side a la "you don't have any experience" and "you don't knonw any Command Line!!11" are less than helpful. That doesn't make people like them more....

That is pretty presumtious. Especially since they don't know the other side...

 

It could be that the other guy grew up with DOS and command line, had to fight to get every game running back in the da and even knew how to programm Start Menus back in the days when Windows wasn't an Operating system...

 

 

PS: Zypper >>>> apt-get.

 

[razdiel]

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

No, I agree and have used Linux in one form or another since RHL 5.0.

 

As a desktop OS Linux is pretty much crap.  If all you ever do is use FF/Chrome and GIMP, sure it works.  But if you have a reason to do anything more complex, the GUI mostly falls apart.

I dont think thats true here is a list of stuff i ran this week:

-Overwatch.

-WoW.

-Discord.

-DMC5.

-Spotify.

-Sublime Text.

-Bunch of Server stuff.

-Kodi.

-Rambox (Whatsapp/Messenger etc)

[Stefan Payne]

2 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

No, I agree and have used Linux in one form or another since RHL 5.0.

Thank you.

 

I always try Linux from time to time and give it a chance but every time I get disapointed and can't stand it no more. That's always the reason I move back to Windows.

Its not that I didn't use it - I did for a couple of days until I'm fed up with it...

2 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

 If all you ever do is use FF/Chrome and GIMP, sure it works.  But if you have a reason to do anything more complex, the GUI mostly falls apart.

Yeah, it starts with moving stuff in the File Manager. 

With Windows: Right Mousebutton, move it from one File Manager (Explorer) Window to the next, and choose what you want to do...

At least it seems that Sharing a Folder is integrated in the File Manager. That's a start.

 

But I also disagree with FF/Chrome: It depends how you use the Internet. How many Windows you have opened.

And how often you want to switch the Windows from one screen to the other.

 

Some Desktop Enviroments support Windows + Arrow Keys but not Windows+Shift + left/right arrow key

(that moves a Window from one Screen to the other one.)

 

Or, if you get the SMB SHare mounted in Linux, you can't play a Video File in KDE because that stuff doesn't support streaming. So you have to copy the file from the SMB Share to your Computer to play it. SRYSLY?! That is a Problem if you want to 

Or you logout to I don't know, start Cinnamon or Mate...

 

The WOrst is LXDE: You can't even move the Window with the mouse ot the top to maximize it or to unmaximize it, you have to click the maximize button. WHY?!

IIRC its the same with Mate, it doesn't support the Win+Arrowkeys as well.

At least Cinnamon does. But then again, The Windows 98 Taskbar. Not the improved Windows 7 Taskbar (I remember that I found it weird at the time. But I got used to it).

 

But you know the best thing you can do:
Win + 1-9

You can start the Programms in your Windows Taskbar/Dock with a press of a Button! You doN't need to click on it.

Yeah, Gnome 3 Supports that but the OSX like UI is unbearable. If I want OSX, I make a Hackintosh (and the Original is much better)...

[Stefan Payne]

13 minutes ago, razdiel said:

I dont think thats true

How many screens do you have on your Linux Machine??

[KarathKasun]

Just now, razdiel said:

I dont think thats true here is a list of stuff i ran this week:

-Overwatch.

-WoW.

-Discord.

-DMC5.

-Spotify.

-Sublime Text.

-Bunch of Server stuff.

-Kodi.

-Rambox (Whatsapp/Messenger etc)

 

I run VMWare (Windows domain integration required), Notepad-qq, and Rocket.Chat (server and client).  I cant plop down a general computer user and have them install these things on Linux. 

 

VMWare uses a BASH script installer, Notepad-qq and Rocket.Chat exist in containers due to versioning problems.

 

If you use a GUI that isnt one the Gnome based ones?  Better know how to edit your GUIs program menu listing or run them from a CLI.

 

How do you install the same programs in Windows?  Download the installer and click it.

[KarathKasun]

4 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

The WOrst is LXDE: You can't even move the Window with the mouse ot the top to maximize it or to unmaximize it, you have to click the maximize button. WHY?!

IIRC its the same with Mate, it doesn't support the Win+Arrowkeys as well.

At least Cinnamon does. But then again, The Windows 98 Taskbar. Not the improved Windows 7 Taskbar (I remember that I found it weird at the time. But I got used to it).

I can live with the window thing in LXDE.  I use it on my laptop with a 1366x768 screen, the window snap function is useless at that low of a resolution.

[Stefan Payne]

3 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

I can live with the window thing in LXDE.  I use it on my laptop with a 1366x768 screen, the window snap function is useless at that low of a resolution.

Yeah, that's the difference.

I use 2 or 3 Screens on that Machine, somewhere between 1920x1080/1200 and 2560x1440.

[Sauron]

12 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

As a desktop OS Linux is pretty much crap. If all you ever do is use FF/Chrome and GIMP, sure it works.  But if you have a reason to do anything more complex, the GUI mostly falls apart.

That's not true. I could elaborate, but why would I when you didn't bother to explain your reasoning?

2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

"Linux" is way behind in usability for an Enduser...

I'd consider myself an end user and yet I find Linux not only perfectly usable but also far less of a PITA to use than Windows ever was. I take issue with people speaking on behalf of the "end user" in general terms without making any distinction among said users. Everyone has different needs and while Linux is great for me it may not be for you - and vice versa. Linux isn't, and in my opinion should never become, a free Windows clone. It's wrong to measure its merits as a 1:1 Windows replacement, because it just isn't. It does some things significantly better (at least in my opinion) and some things worse or not at all.

 

If you come to Linux expecting an exact mirror of your Windows experience, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. If you're perfectly satisfied with your Windows experience there's no reason for you to switch. If you want Windows but without X (let's say forced updates), you're out of luck because Linux isn't that.

10 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

The WOrst is LXDE: You can't even move the Window with the mouse ot the top to maximize it or to unmaximize it, you have to click the maximize button. WHY?!

IIRC its the same with Mate, it doesn't support the Win+Arrowkeys as well.

At least Cinnamon does. But then again, The Windows 98 Taskbar. Not the improved Windows 7 Taskbar (I remember that I found it weird at the time. But I got used to it).

You can easily enable window snapping in MATE if you want to, and remap the keybinding to be whatever you like. You can do it in LXDE too, though not as easily (LXDE is intended to be as light as possible, not to be complete out of the box).

 

This complaint sounds like me saying that the window colors in Windows suck, ignoring the existence of theme options (which are vastly inferior to what you can do on a Linux distro, but that's beside the point).

14 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

If you use a GUI that isnt one the Gnome based ones?  Better know how to edit your GUIs program menu listing or run them from a CLI.

You're confusing DEs with bare window managers. You're also ignoring KDE Plasma, XFCE and a few more.

[razdiel]

26 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

How many screens do you have on your Linux Machine??

2? One 34 Inch and another smaller why? 0.o

[captain_aggravated]

4 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

You can't install drivers on Linux (don't need that on OSX obviously ans no DIY stuff).

You can't "just download and install" a software, you can on OSX and Windows

When I bought my laptop, I bought an accessory with it:  A Dell-branded DisplayLink USB dock.  It can drive up to two 1080p monitors through USB 3.0.  Linux doesn't support it out of the box.  I googled "displaylink linux driver," the first hit was DisplayLink's website offering a driver for Ubuntu.  I clicked a button, a .zip downloaded, inside was a file called displaylink-driver-4.4.24.run.  Right clicked, ran as root.  Driver installed.  Second monitor blinked on.

I use a 3D printer slicer software called Simplify3D.  This is a commercial product, I paid $150 for a 2-seat license.  There's a Linux version.  To download, I go to Simplify3D's website, log into the user account page, there's a Download tab, go to that tab, there's a big green Download button.  Here comes a .zip file with a .run installer in it.  Run as root, it installs.

 

*snip*

 

Ever notice how the folks who complain the loudest about Linux are the ones who "REALLY want to use Linux, but I tried one distro for a few hours and just couldn't stand it." 

 

35 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

How many screens do you have on your Linux Machine?? 

Three; the built-in monitor and two external displays, all running 1920x1080.  I usually use two at my desk though; there's not a good place to leave my laptop open.

2 hours ago, Mo5 said:

How has a thread about "we are happy to help" turned into such a shitstorm... But I guess such a topic will never have a civilized debate. 

Man I don't even.  I'm gonna talk to some of my friends at Duke U and suggest they study the psychology of certain computer enthusiasts going bouncing banana ballsack bonkers every time Linux is mentioned.  I made the comparison to taking a toddler's surprise egg videos away in another thread down in "everything not windows."  I'm upgrading that from comparison to hypothesis.

 

30 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Not the improved Windows 7 Taskbar (I remember that I found it weird at the time. But I got used to it).

In Mint Cinnamon 18.3, right click the panel, click Add Applets to panel, click Download, and find CinnVIIStarkMenu.  Mint 19.1 asks you on first startup if you'd like to use the Win7 or Win98 style.  Personally, I'd like the Windows XP "each window gets its own button but we group like windows" behavior, but hey.

Edited March 15, 2019 by wkdpaul
Near the end, changed "on startup" to "on first startup"

[razdiel]

27 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

 

I run VMWare (Windows domain integration required), Notepad-qq, and Rocket.Chat (server and client).  I cant plop down a general computer user and have them install these things on Linux. 

 

VMWare uses a BASH script installer, Notepad-qq and Rocket.Chat exist in containers due to versioning problems.

 

If you use a GUI that isnt one the Gnome based ones?  Better know how to edit your GUIs program menu listing or run them from a CLI.

 

How do you install the same programs in Windows?  Download the installer and click it.

What? dude you tried Linux in the 80s or something?

 

How do i install those? well i open the software manager hooked up to AUR write their name and click install. (if you think about it its actually easier and faster in Arch Linux than Windows, Ubuntu based depends...)

[KarathKasun]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That's not true. I could elaborate, but why would I when you didn't bother to explain your reasoning?

 

You're confusing DEs with bare window managers. You're also ignoring KDE Plasma, XFCE and a few more.

The GUI literally falls apart under normal usage.  Let me get to work and Ill boot up the Gnome 3 based default desktop and Ill just list off where it breaks over the course of a single day.

 

KDE and Gnome have very poor performance.  They are slower than W10 on the same (well supported mind you) hardware.  XFCE is on par LXDE as far as being fast and lightweight, but it has a similar lack of configuration tools.

[KarathKasun]

5 minutes ago, razdiel said:

What? dude you tried Linux in the 80s or something?

 

How do i install those? well i open the software manager hooked up to AUR write their name and click install. (if you think about it its actually easier and faster in Arch Linux than Windows, Debian based depends...)

Fixed that for ya.  Rocket.Chat is a steaming pile of refuse code wise.  In Debian based environments it has to be run in a container because some of its dependencies are outdated and cause conflicts elsewhere.

 

This is a fairly universal problem in Linux that makes it not user friendly.