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Delicieuxz

Microsoft brings DirectX 12 to Windows 7

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how many games use DX12 though.... 

 

still on W7 


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maybe if we keep pestering them rhey will finally give up and give windows 10:

the old windows update control panel

fully opt-out off of telemetry

no more ads

no more apps that get installed without the user's notice

... that's all that comes to my mind, been a long time since i've used windows 


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13 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

Can't wait for people to fuck with games that have DX12 support on Windows 10 only to run on Windows 7.

Then again, about 85% of those games are on the Microsoft Store.

Well if the Halo collection supports DirectX 12 I'd be happy either way. Because it's also launching on Steam (it's as if MS knows that games from their store are generally inferior to versions released normally)


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This is NOT a full implementation of the DirectX 12 API, it's kind of a compatibility layer. This isn't big news.

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15 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Microsoft is going to be pestering you with ads to install to Windows 10, just like they did when Win 10 first released

In all fairness :

 

Quote

if you would prefer not to receive them again, you'll be able to select an option for "do not notify me again", and we will not send you any further reminders.

Maybe they learned their lesson?  Only time will tell.

 

 

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Chatting with dad, and we've come to the conclusion that of the Win7 WoW players who haven't upgraded to Win10 yet, probably won't ever upgrade to Win10 and might in fact just grab a Mac for their next system to play WoW instead of dealing with Win10 BS - causing M$ to panic and bow to the requests of Blizzard et. all to bring parts of DX12 (if not the whole thing) to Win7 even if it's EOL on 2020-01-14.

 

Like, could you imagine the percentage drop of Win7 systems and rise of MacOS systems from all the Chinese internet cafes and such that don't want to deal with Win10 when time comes around to replace all their systems in the next few years?

I'm willing to bet a decent portion of the Win7 users still around are in China using internet cafes and such to get online.


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I know many people are hating on the implementation due to EOL is in less than a year but they will continue to have enterprise and pro support (for a cost) until 2022 I believe, so for these users it makes sense to have the implementations, especially if you're going to continue to shell out money for this continued support.

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Actually, as explained in Microsoft blog, this is just at the program level support.

This means that Microsoft is working with game studios, and only port DirectX12 for the game itself (and if it were my guess, only the DirectX12 APIs that the game uses).

 

In other words, and in my opinion, Microsoft uses this as a promotion of DirectX12, to get people to consider upgrading to Windows 10 to enjoy full DirectX12 advantages and for all their games (well, games that support DirectX12).

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Tin foil hat time!
Now that all the techy's are telling everyone to jump ship from Win7, Microsoft is going all Michael Scott on Toby Win7
"Here is your going away gift."
MSToWin7.gif.9415c945a9cb398aef4a23b4f416853a.gif

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Posted · Original PosterOP
26 minutes ago, gutz00 said:

I know many people are hating on the implementation due to EOL is in less than a year but they will continue to have enterprise and pro support (for a cost) until 2022 I believe, so for these users it makes sense to have the implementations, especially if you're going to continue to shell out money for this continued support.

It's until 2023. Windows XP is still receiving commercial support and the ongoing security updates for XP can be enables in consumer version via a simple registry tweak. I wonder if Windows 7's security updates until 2023 will likewise be possible to be enabled via a registry tweak.

 

22 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Actually, as explained in Microsoft blog, this is just at the program level support.

This means that Microsoft is working with game studios, and only port DirectX12 for the game itself (and if it were my guess, only the DirectX12 APIs that the game uses).

 

In other words, and in my opinion, Microsoft uses this as a promotion of DirectX12, to get people to consider upgrading to Windows 10 to enjoy full DirectX12 advantages and for all their games (well, games that support DirectX12).

Do you think the DX12 files will be separate from the game files, and that people can use them to add DX12 in other programs?

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38 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Do you think the DX12 files will be separate from the game files, and that people can use them to add DX12 in other programs?

It'd probably be a few dlls to add just what the developer wanted from DX12.

 

However I don't see the point in what Blizzard wanted from DX12 when DX11 already has a similar feature.

 

EDIT: Actually now that I recall, I don't think AMD ever implemented support for that DX11 feature (Deferred Contexts) since it was optional.

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1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

Do you think the DX12 files will be separate from the game files, and that people can use them to add DX12 in other programs?

It's unclear, but I really think they'll put only the APIs that the game uses, as they are doing it as a per case basis and working with game developers.

I won't be surprised that they put some sort of DRM as well, at least a basic one.

 

Could someone collect all DirectX12 files from a bunch of games that will come out with DX12 on WIn7 support and break the DRM lock in place and make it part of the OS as a mostly complete DirectX12? Maybe.

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Microsoft office meeting:

Alrgith bois, its been long enough. Time to kill Windows 7

BUT ! Before we do lets bring DX12 !

"Everyone claps"

...


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Here's something to point out. From AMD's page on Doom and Vulkan (I was searching about to see how Vulkan fit in Windows' graphics stack), I came across this bit:

Quote

Often we talk about how Vulkan and DirectX 12 are equally first class APIs in the AMD Driver Stack, and the best way to understand why is to look at how both are implemented in the driver. The graphics driver stack on Windows® is divided into three primary components:

  • AMD Kernel-Mode Driver (KMD) – Executes commands fed from WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model), interfaces with the GPU directly.
  • Microsoft’s Layer (WDDM) – Controls memory management and scheduling decisions on behalf of the OS.
  • AMD User-Mode Driver (UMD) – A DLL which implements the API and feeds commands to WDDM.

Technically speaking then from this, as long as the user-mode driver implements the API and can translate it to the WDDM layer, any API can be used. Microsoft doesn't really have to backport anything, though they would have to provide support in getting an API that was not designed around a version of WDDM it was meant to support. In this case, DX12 was designed around WDDM 2.0, which features I'll pull from Wikipedia:

Quote

Windows 10 includes WDDM 2.0, which is designed to dramatically reduce workload on the kernel-mode driver for GPUs that support virtual memory addressing,[37] to allow multithreading parallelism in the user-mode driver and result in lower CPU utilization.[38][39][40][41] Windows 10 also includes DXGI 1.4.[42]

I don't know how programming for WDDM 2.0 is different from WDDM 1.1 (which shipped with Windows 7), or how programming for WDDM in general works. However, I would presume there's enough of a difference that backporting DX12 to have system wide support on Windows 7 would take "a bit" of effort for graphics manufacturers. After all, Windows Vista has DirectX 11 support... after you've updated WDDM from 1.0 to 1.1 via the Platform Update.

 

EDIT: Actually I'm kind of rambling again. What Blizzard wanted was more of an application facing feature and there was no mention of needing special drivers other than ones that are compatible with DirectX 12.

 

So now I'm confused what really went on here.

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Only reason I swapped to windows 10 was DX12 yet about 3 games actually support it and now windows 7 has it....


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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18 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

It seems a bit pointless since Microsoft is gonna end support for Windows 7.

Was thinking the same thing. And im going to downgrade to windows 10 this year from 7.

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...but why? It only has about a year to go...


<Make me a sandwich.> <No! Make it yourself!> <Sudo make me a sandwich.> <FINE.> What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux CoC F.A.Q Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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While I was surprised about this at first, it's a good addition. Not only extra performance, when DX12 came for WoW it really gave a very nice performance improvement. But this move which people don't see, is also to make devs finally utilize DX12 more and primarily without worrying that they're not supporting everyone. So finally no need to drag old API anymore and focus on DX12 only. 
On W10 DX12 is still better and faster with full and proper support, also OS optimizations.

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20 hours ago, DavidKalinowski said:

hm.. I might just have to revert back to windows 7 my self..

 

it would some shit if M$ open sourced win7 (or at least windows 9x just to play with. imagine, 9x gets open sourced, and suddenly new drivers and shit are made so it can run on 8 core CPUS and high end GFX cards..lol)

Well, it might not be exactly what you want but there is an open-source alternative for XP.

https://www.reactos.org/

Just to be clear, it's not Linux with Wine or whatever, it's an OS completely designed to basically be XP, but secure and with proper support. (optimistic i know, but it still gets updates)


If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

Spying on everyone to fight against terrorism is like shooting a mosquito with a cannon

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48 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Well, it might not be exactly what you want but there is an open-source alternative for XP.

https://www.reactos.org/

Just to be clear, it's not Linux with Wine or whatever, it's an OS completely designed to basically be XP, but secure and with proper support. (optimistic i know, but it still gets updates)

I've seen that one. played with it a bit on virtualbox. I forgot about them honestly. if M$ would opensource even win2000 that would probably help those guys out.

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And the excuses for people to still be using windows 10 becomes increasingly smaller.

 

I can see it not being that long until the 3~ games that are DX12 exclusive are able to run on 7.as well.


What does windows 10 and ET have in common?

 

They are both constantly trying to phone home.

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