Morality of playing a cracked game

[Kawaii Koneko]

4 hours ago, fasauceome said:

You don't have to spend extra money on windows or Amazon accounts to get these goods, but I do have to fork over a few hundred for a PS4 where I definitely would not just to play God of war

If you only have Linux or use a Mac, then you have to fork over for a Windows license. WINE isn't always enough.

 

You could extend this to other devices as well. What about software/games only being available on Android or IOS. Is that anti-consumer? This concept of not being able to get what you want, where you want it or having to pay to play being anti-consumer gets ridiculous fast.

 

Some people would argue that it isn't even about having to spend money on another platform, it's simply about having to use one other than the one you want. People were throwing around the term anti-consumer like it was going out of style when all you had to do was install a free piece of software in order to play Metro Exodus on PC...

 

2 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Cracking is just a means of defeating the DRM. If I bought the game, then why can't I defeat the DRM?

 

That kind of cracking is totally okay. If you actually own the software license but just want to make things more convenient for yourself, I say go ahead, crack it. I've personally used no cd cracks back in the day for games that I legitimately owned just so I didn't have to drop the disc in all the time.

 

I'm pretty sure the context of cracking in this thread refers to actual piracy though.

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

I'm pretty sure the context of cracking in this thread refers to actual piracy though.

Ah yeah, OP did mention they feel bad and should buy the game. So that implies piracy, which is irrelevant to cracking it.

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

If you only have Linux or use a Mac, then you have to fork over for a Windows license. WINE isn't always enough.

You don't, you can use windows for free. I've been doing it for years.

 

2 minutes ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

Some people would argue that it isn't even about having to spend money on another platform, it's simply about having to use one other than the one you want.

Well, that isn't what I'm arguing so it's not applicable. All I'm saying is that if a game is behind a paywall greater than the game price itself, and that paywall is to incentivise you to spend even more, that's anti consumer.

[Kawaii Koneko]

12 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

You don't, you can use windows for free. I've been doing it for years.

 

Most people don't realize that MS now lets you use Win 10 for free and for years, if you wanted to do things legitimately, you did have to fork over for a license.

 

12 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Well, that isn't what I'm arguing so it's not applicable. All I'm saying is that if a game is behind a paywall greater than the game price itself, and that paywall is to incentivise you to spend even more, that's anti consumer.

It is what I'm arguing. The term is thrown around carelessly all the time and I do think even in the context of what you are talking about, that is not anti-consumer.

 

Paywalls exist. It is a part of life in a capitalistic society. You have to pay to play. That isn't anti-consumer.

 

Certain software features are only available on certain cars, is that anti-consumer? Why should I have to buy a BMW to get iDrive? Why can't I have it on a Ford Fiesta. That's anti-consumer. See? This gets ridiculous fast.

 

I guess Nintendo is anti-consumer for not letting me play Mario on my XBox. MS for Halo on my PS. Sony for not letting me play TLOS on my X. For that matter, they are all anti-consumer for not letting me play on PC. I guess that is what you are arguing but I just see this as a way of life, not anti-consumer.

[Fasauceome]

7 minutes ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

Certain software features are only available on certain cars, is that anti-consumer? Why should I have to buy a BMW to get iDrive? Why can't I have it on a Ford Fiesta. That's anti-consumer. See? This gets ridiculous fast.

This is not the same. iDrive was not made by another studio by itself and then the rights were purchased, the product was made by BMW for BMW. it isn't game developers that want exclusivity, it's publishers.

[Kawaii Koneko]

14 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

This is not the same. iDrive was not made by another studio by itself and then the rights were purchased, the product was made by BMW for BMW. it isn't game developers that want exclusivity, it's publishers.

So? It's still a paywall. It's still "anti-consumer". Really at this point, you are just splitting hairs.

 

But since you say there is a difference, how come it is different when BMW develops the software for their own platform but anti-consumer when Nintendo developes exclusive software for their console? Or is that different to you because like you said, it wasn't developed and restricted by a separate entity, e.g. the publisher?

 

So if the actual owner develops a game for a platform and restricts it, is that okay? Just not if a publisher who contractually publishes the game but doesn't own the rights makes it exclusive?

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

Or is that different to you because like you said, it wasn't developed and restricted by a separate entity, e.g. the publisher? 

I would say it is different. Nintendo developing and then publishing their own games on their own platform is different from something like, say, Bloodborne, made by from software but purchased by Sony. From software doesn't think their product is only fit for PS4, their contract just says that's how it is.

[Kawaii Koneko]

16 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I would say it is different. Nintendo developing and then publishing their own games on their own platform is different from something like, say, Bloodborne, made by from software but purchased by Sony. From software doesn't think their product is only fit for PS4, their contract just says that's how it is.

Look at it this way. While for those who do not own a PS, it may be a bummer that they can't play Bloodborne, isn't it a boon for PS owners? More exclusive software helps strengthen and grow the brand which in turn entices more developers to develop for the platform. Isn't that good for a particular set of consumers?

 

I understand that this wasn't developed by Sony but it still isn't that far different than Nintendo developing their own games. It is simply a console manufacturer ensuring the viability by increasing desirability of their console through use of exclusives.

 

The XBox One X is really the king of consoles when it comes to multiplats but it fails when it comes to exclusives. Simply having a better multiplat experience hasn't been enough to give MS the market share they had hoped for. Despite the sheer power of the system, developers just haven't jumped on board for exclusives even with MS throwing money around. They have had to resort to actually buying up studios. And speaking of, do you consider that anti-consumer? Is it any different for a console maker to actually buy up a studio then to be the developer proper for exclusives?

 

It certainly wasn't pro-consumer for the XBox owners that they have had few exclusives worth playing.

 

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

They have had to resort to actually buying up studios. And speaking of, do you consider that anti-consumer? Is it any different for a console maker to actually buy up a studio then to be the developer proper for exclusives?

I see it the same way as licensing one game for an exclusive. It's just the whole studio. It would have been on the market for multiple platforms, but a contract keeps it exclusive.

[Kawaii Koneko]

11 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I see it the same way as licensing one game for an exclusive. It's just the whole studio. It would have been on the market for multiple platforms, but a contract keeps it exclusive.

Okay, I see your point. There is a slight difference for some games but then again, down the road, that same studio might develop a game that they wouldn't have if they were still independent. At that point, I don't see much of a difference between the console manufacturer actually starting a new studio branch to develop their games or just acquiring one. Again, I do see your point about games currently in development at the time of acquisition but I still don't view that as anti-consumer.

 

And what may seem anti-consumer at the time, may be a benefit to consumers later on. Competition is good for consumers but it is hard to compete when your competitor has such a big leg up. Take Epic vs Steam. It may seem anti-consumer to some for Deep Silver (who actually own the Metro IP btw) to sign an exclusivity deal with Epic at first. It may be viewed as a jerk move by Epic to some. But getting these exclusives is one of the ways to help them stand out against Steam. Down the road, if the platform grows and generally improves so it isn't crap compared to Steam, it will be good for consumers to have more places to buy their game, right?

 

I guess my point in all this is that I think the idea of something being anti-consumer is a slippery slope and hard to even define. It just results in splitting hairs and there are too many ifs and buts.  What is anti-consumer for one group, may be a benefit to others. There are just too many nuances that may even be hard to spot at first glance.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

I see it the same way as licensing one game for an exclusive. It's just the whole studio. It would have been on the market for multiple platforms, but a contract keeps it exclusive.

It's because Sony owns the IP. From Software cannot make another Bloodborne game or release the first game on other platforms unless Sony wills it.

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

I guess my point in all this is that I think the idea of something being anti-consumer is a slippery slope and hard to even define. It just results in splitting hairs and there are too many ifs and buts.  What is anti-consumer for one group, may be a benefit to others. There are just too many nuances that may even be hard to spot at first glance.

I think that's true, and anti-consumer also doesn't mean illegal, so it's not likely to be very clearly defined soon.

And even still I have more personal reasons as to why I think cracked console games aren't piracy, because I wouldn't personally buy a PS4 to get a game I wanted but would rather get the janky PC version. It's not a lost sale because I wasn't going to buy a console in the first place to play an exclusive. Although that's a ;pt harder to justify on a large scale, because like I said, that's how I personally feel, whereas other people would likely buy a console to play an exclusive.

[Fasauceome]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

It's because Sony owns the IP. From Software cannot make another Bloodborne game or release the first game on other platforms unless Sony wills it.

Yes I brought that up earlier as an example. Bums me out, I love BB and would enjoy a 60 fps experience.

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, fasauceome said:

Yes I brought that up earlier as an example. Bums me out, I love BB and would enjoy a 60 fps experience.

I'm trying to say there is no licensing deal or contract. From Software doesn't own the IP anymore so they can't even develop another Bloodborne game unless Sony says they can.

[Ertman]

I am very much against pirating games. I do believe that there are some exceptions which would be more of necessity than anything else. However, in those scenarios I would feel bad about supporting piracy.

 

I also don’t subscribe to the concept of playing a game at release and then buying it years later at a fraction of the price as justification.

 

People think they are entitled to free things, but if it was their livelihood at stake they maybe wouldn’t support it so much.

[OPG Godsend]

Are you seeking validation or confirmation?  
Don't let other people's opinions shape what YOU do, think for yourself.
If you're looking for information to make your OWN opinion on the matter, here are some back and forth facts;

 

 - It's illegal  
 + Stealing a digital product doesn't actually take a physical object, so there's no loss on the company's end  
 - You're stealing from people that invested their talent and passion into their product (some companies... eh, no talent or passion, but still)  

 + There have been statistics that show that people that pirate games would have never bought it in the first place, so there's still no monetary loss for the developer/publisher  
 - You're clearly ashamed of yourself and are seeking validation/confirmation, thus, even you clearly understand what you're doing is wrong  
 + If you don't have the money to purchase it, you still get to enjoy it without giving the devs their deserved/owed money

 - Criminal charges may leave you with a felony record, accompanied by up to five years of jail time and fines up to $250,000  

 

There.

Use your own head to make your own decisions.

[Ebony Falcon]

2 hours ago, OPG Godsend said:

Are you seeking validation or confirmation?  
Don't let other people's opinions shape what YOU do, think for yourself.
If you're looking for information to make your OWN opinion on the matter, here are some back and forth facts;

 

 - It's illegal  
 + Stealing a digital product doesn't actually take a physical object, so there's no loss on the company's end  
 - You're stealing from people that invested their talent and passion into their product (some companies... eh, no talent or passion, but still)  

 + There have been statistics that show that people that pirate games would have never bought it in the first place, so there's still no monetary loss for the developer/publisher  
 - You're clearly ashamed of yourself and are seeking validation/confirmation, thus, even you clearly understand what you're doing is wrong  
 + If you don't have the money to purchase it, you still get to enjoy it without giving the devs their deserved/owed money

 - Criminal charges may leave you with a felony record, accompanied by up to five years of jail time and fines up to $250,000  

 

There.

Use your own head to make your own decisions.

I got some money today so I think il buy it 

I kind of want the updates for it aswell 

[Settlerteo]

On 3/7/2019 at 4:59 AM, Ebony Falcon said:

So I downloaded a metro exodus crack and I really like the game, I feel like I should probly buy the game now as I feel bad 

 

what’s the community’s general consensus on it ?

Well love the topic. Huge discussion. Let me tell you what.
Speaking from the perspective of living in a country where you can download torrents freely(well that is still illegal but no one will care no one will fine you for anything) : 
In my opinion we should not download cracked games because we short term do damage the whole gaming industry and long term do damage us. If there are no game sales companies will close etc etc...we won't have the same variety of games etc etc. You are not sure if a game worths your hard earned money and you re going to download it nevertheless? Then if you like it support and purchase the game. You don't want to spend 50-60 € ? Buy it after a month when the price would probably be around 30 €. That's why i liked demos in the past. They were free and gave you a taste about the title. Then you knew if you want to buy it or not. Just my 2 cents.

[Settlerteo]

******Forgot to mention. If the producer is Electronic Arts then do not download do not buy. They deserve nothing and it's just a shame they are doing so much damage to great development studios.

P.S. Activision you re closing in to catch EA.

[germgoatz]

21 hours ago, clearskyy said:

My computer science professors taught me that all software should be free. I've stood by that belief for a long time.

I agree that would be nice, but building software takes a lot of work, and work is motivated by money. If all software was free, no one would want to make software.

[Ebony Falcon]

6 minutes ago, Settlerteo said:

Well love the topic. Huge discussion. Let me tell you what.
Speaking from the perspective of living in a country where you can download torrents freely(well that is still illegal but no one will care no one will fine you for anything) : 
In my opinion we should not download cracked games because we short term do damage the whole gaming industry and long term do damage us. If there are no game sales companies will close etc etc...we won't have the same variety of games etc etc. You are not sure if a game worths your hard earned money and you re going to download it nevertheless? Then if you like it support and purchase the game. You don't want to spend 50-60 € ? Buy it after a month when the price would probably be around 30 €. That's why i liked demos in the past. They were free and gave you a taste about the title. Then you knew if you want to buy it or not. Just my 2 cents.

My thoughts are now I will buy the game 

however if I hadn’t played the crack I wouldn’t be paying 50 for it as I really wasn’t sure about it in the first place 

[Settlerteo]

21 hours ago, clearskyy said:

My computer science professors taught me that all software should be free. I've stood by that belief for a long time.

Well, go tell your science professors when they release a paper to not write their name on that and do not copyright it. Everyone else could use it as theirs without asking or mentioning any one. That should be about right yeah? ....NOT
I really want to see what they will answer to that question. Also tell them that they shouldn't get paid for their job. They should do it for free. It is frikkin knowledge after all.

[Taja]

On 3/7/2019 at 4:56 AM, Kawaii Koneko said:

It's theft, period. It isn't much different than walking into a convenience store and taking candy off the shelf.

 

I used to do it all the time. I used to pirate games, music, and movies all the time. Then I finally stopped lying to myself that what I was doing was somehow justifiable. Now I deeply regret my pirate past.

WRONG. By definition, its not teft. Is it immoral? maybe, in LOTS of ocasions. but it is not, and it will NEVER be TEFT. Teft is taking something, when you take a candy the owner of the candy will lose the sale AND the candy. when pirating the owner of the IP is only losing the sale (at most, because a lot of people that pirate games end up buying them) EDIT: Teft in this context would be stealing the rights, just like it happened to TheFatRat song "The Calling" some time ago.

 

 

Also, pirating sometimes can be positive. how? well, simple. Here in Brazil, a new game costs 1/4 of the minimum monthly wage. Not a lot of ppl can or want to pay that much for a game, so they end up pirating it and BECAUSE they played the game and loved it, they pay for it later in a sale (I do that all the time).

 

Before spotify and netflix, here we couldnt access a ton of content (either it was literally unavailable or behind a paywall that made it available only for the 1%) so pirating became the norm. So much that it is not illegal to pirate content here, not really. Unless you are an institution pirating software or something, you can and will pirate music, movies and games all the time. Nowadays I only pirate what I cant get it from netflix and spotify, which are services that showed how to properly kill/reduce piracy.

 

When a game from a reputable dev launches, I pay for it WITH PLEASURE. CDPR, Larian Studios, DontNod... they make good games, dont fuck the consumer and most times the prices are VERY compatible - thats how you fight piracy, not be saying "oh this is immoral and if you do it you are a bad person"

[clearskyy]

5 hours ago, germgoatz said:

I agree that would be nice, but building software takes a lot of work, and work is motivated by money. If all software was free, no one would want to make software.

Every piece of software I've ever written was open source and open to whomever to use. The java games I've made, the bots I've created were free to use and modify. I've never personally thought as programming as work, mostly because I view it as a long puzzle. Unless we're talking about making webforms, those are less fun, and very tedious lol. I make software programs because they're fun and I love to see them work. You're literally making something out of nothing. If all work was money driven then why would so many in the automotive scene dump so much of their money into their passion projects? It's all technically work, working on vehicles is not easy, arguably more difficult than programming has ever been (unless of course we're talking about machine code in which case, that is honestly brutal work). 

 

I don't feel like I'm paid for programming as a software developer, I feel like I'm paid to solve problems using software languages. If that makes sense.

[Mister Woof]

Only cracks I support are the ones that eliminate Denuvo/VM protect on games you already paid for just so they fucking run correctly